Gas saving device

[Kris]

to ghosthunter: odee is the dealer of the said device, and not the inventor. he sells that product coz he believes it does work. therefore, i dont think he is in that position to give u scientific facts to prove that this device does really work. why dont u try it urself and tell us if it really does work or not?

[squala]

But people like ghosthunter have the right to ask for such stuff from dealers like odee. He should in the first place sell products that have factual evidence to prove their worth. He may not be the man responsible for the testing whatsoever, but it's his job to obtain information regarding the necessary scrutineering customers ask for.

[niky]

Originally posted by Kris
to ghosthunter: odee is the dealer of the said device, and not the inventor. he sells that product coz he believes it does work. therefore, i dont think he is in that position to give u scientific facts to prove that this device does really work. why dont u try it urself and tell us if it really does work or not?

Another first post in defense of said product? Wow... how unsurprising... who is it, this time?

And I agree with what ghosthunter and squala say... go on, continue...

[kiper]

Originally posted by kiper
Odee, Meron na bang patent yan? Pwede ko ba makita mga real facts and figures niyo?

Can you post it here or send it to me thru jasonkiper*yahoo.com. I log here everyday, sana may matanggap ako.

First Post-First Question ko sa Gas saving device Thread na to..di masagot nung nagbebenta..Pano ako bibili ng produkto mo nyan. You should know what is your product, how it works and why should your prospective customers buy your product. Gumana nga ung produkto mo, di naman maintindihan ng consumer kung pano gumana ung produkto mo..ano un magic? Business 101..hehe Business Administration ang kurso ko eh...sensya na.

Odee, Pwede mo ako bigyan ng Guarantee na by the time na hindi ako masatisfy sa product mo bayaran mo ko ng P20,000? Hindi kasi ako mahilig sa MONEY BACK GUARANTEE eh..mas okay kung meron akong pambayad sa repair pag may nasira sa Auto ko, diba?

Masyadong malakas sa gas ung FORD Escape XLT 4x4 A/T ko..baka ikaw na ang pag-asa ko. Baka try ko muna sa Escape.

We have 3 SUV's (2 Gas & 1 Diesel), 1 Diesel Pick-up Truck and 25 plus Heavy Trucks..pag-nasatisfy mo ko bili ako 30 units of your KHAOS.

Nakikita mo ung FORD CLUB PHILIPPINES sa signature ko sa baba? Sabi niyo accredited na to ng FORD Phil Dealers, Pwedeng-Pwede kami mag GROUP BUY.

Pakisabay na rin lahat ng Legalities, Documents etc.. Nasa internet tayo eh. Walang masama kung meron kang mga maipapakita diba?

Sagot, Bilis sayang ang time..!!



Good Day to you sir Odee.

Jason Kiper.

Originally posted by Kris
to ghosthunter: odee is the dealer of the said device, and not the inventor. he sells that product coz he believes it does work. therefore, i dont think he is in that position to give u scientific facts to prove that this device does really work. why dont u try it urself and tell us if it really does work or not?

and Kris.. WELCOME TO TSIKOT..!! Post naman kayo sa Pitstop..masaya dun..diba ate Gretzy?!! We are one big family here!

[kiper]

If I may add.. Please Read. Pinost ko na rin to sa FORD CLUB PHILIPPINES FORUMS, http://www.fordclubph.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=199.


A Look At the Platinum Gasaver
By Mark Roadarmel


I just love the internet. With a little time and ingenuity, a person can discover so much. Part of the trick, of course, is evaluating the reliability of the sources you find and then applying a little common sense. As to the benefits alleged by the manufacturer of the Gasaver, here is what I turned up.
First, the PVI Gasaver commercial website is long on advertisement but short on facts that I could readily verify from any third party source. The site does not post or refer you to the actual studies which it claims were performed by a U.S. government agency. One quasi-technical evaluation (but in fact a simple testimonial) mentioned was performed on a 1973 Chevy V-8. I believe the technology has changed a bit since then and it seems to me that one should be careful in interpolating what, if any, impact the Gasaver would have on modern engines from this "test".

Second, in order to comply with fleet mileage requirements, car manufactuers have gone to extreme steps to shave off just a few ounces of weight from their vehicles in their efforts to improve fuel consumption. It seems safe to assume that the manufacturers have employed a chemist or two from time to time to look at improving the gasoline that goes into the engine. If an additive exists that generates the increase in mileage that PVI claims for the Gasaver, doesn't it seem likely that the auto industry would have long since implemented the technology (and made the discoverer of this elixir very wealthy)?

Third, to my knowledge, the EPA is the agency responsible for evaluating fuel-saving additives, not the various agencies referenced by PVI on its website. Granted, some of the material referenced by PVI is 15-20 years old so perhaps agency names and responsibilities have changed over time and I didn't check this out.

Fourth, the following excerpt is copied directly from an article put out by the Federal Trade Commission in 1992 at this website: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/gasave.htm Note that a device called the "Platinum Gasaver" is included in the list of tested devices although I can't confirm whether this is the same device now being sold by PVI.

Article begins:

Fast Facts
After evaluating and testing more than 100 alleged gas-saving devices, the EPA has found only a few that improve mileage and none that do so significantly.

"Gas-Saving" Advertising Claims
No government agency endorses gas-saving products for cars. The most that can be claimed in advertising is that the EPA has reached certain conclusions about possible gas savings by testing the product or by evaluating the manufacturer's own test data. If the seller claims that its product has been evaluated by the EPA, ask to see the test results. Or better yet, get a copy from the EPA.

EPA Evaluation Efforts - Devices Tested by EPA
Vapor Bleed Devices. Similar to the Air Bleed devices, except that induced air is bubbled through a container of water/anti-freeze mixture, which usually is located in the engine compartment. (The EPA has evaluated: Frantz Vapor Injection System; Turbo Vapor Injection System; SCATPAC Vacuum Vapor Induction System: Econo-Mist Vacuum Vapor Injection System; Mark II Vapor Injection System; Platinum Gasaver, V-70 Vapor Injector; Hydro-Vac: POWERFUeL.)

Article ends.

The article indicates that none of the devices listed in the above paragraph were found to improve gas mileage.

Fifth, the EPA apparently has evaluated the Gasaver on two occasions - once in May 1981 and again in July 1991. The reports are not available anywhere on line that I could find but they can be purchased from Northernlights.com for a nominal amount if anyone is interested. (If anyone wants to know how to get the articles, let me know.) However, common sense suggests that if the results were favorable to the Gasaver, that PVI would have included the reports rather prominently on their website.

Conclusion? I have found, purchased and used a number of products that I would otherwise have never known about except for the internet. However, I think I will pass on the Gasaver until more explicit and verifiable data is provided.

[kiper]

Ayos din to.. 5:15 am na, nag-research na muna ako bago matulog sana makatulong ito para sa lahat..u Pasensya na..mahilig talaga ako magreasearch about stuff. Pilosopong tao ako eh..hehehe

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/gasave.htm


Federal Trade Commission
Facts for Consumers

"Gas-Saving" Products: Fact or Fuelishness?

Gas prices are up, and so is the volume of advertising for "gas-saving" products. When gasoline prices rise, consumers often look for ways to improve fuel efficiency. Although there are practical steps you can take to increase gas mileage, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) warns you to be wary of any gas-saving claims for automotive devices or oil and gas additives. Even for the few gas-saving products that have been found to work, the savings have been small.

"Gas-Saving" Advertising Claims
Be skeptical of the following kinds of advertising claims.

1. "This gas-saving product improves fuel economy by 20 percent."
Claims usually tout savings ranging from 12 to 25 percent. However, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has evaluated or tested more than 100 alleged gas-saving devices and has not found any product that significantly improves gas mileage. In fact, some "gas-saving" products may damage a car's engine or cause substantial increases in exhaust emissions.

The gas-saving products on the market fall into clearly defined categories. Although the EPA has not tested or evaluated every product, it has tried to examine at least one product in each category. See "Devices Tested by EPA" at the end of this brochure for category descriptions and product names.

2. "After installing your product on my car, I got an extra 4 miles per gallon [6.4 kilometers per 3.8 liters]."
Many ads feature glowing testimonials by satisfied customers. Yet, few consumers have the ability or the equipment to test for precise changes in gas mileage after installing a gas-saving product. Many variables affect fuel consumption, including traffic, road and weather conditions, and the car's condition.

For example, one consumer sent a letter to a company praising its "gas-saving" product. At the time the product was installed, however, the consumer also had received a complete engine tune-up - a fact not mentioned in the letter. The entire increase in gas mileage attributed to the "gas-saving" product may well have been the result of the tune-up alone. But from the ad, other consumers could not have known that.

3. "This gas-saving device is approved by the Federal government."
No government agency endorses gas-saving products for cars. The most that can be claimed in advertising is that the EPA has reached certain conclusions about possible gas savings by testing the product or by evaluating the manufacturer's own test data. If the seller claims that its product has been evaluated by the EPA, ask for a copy of the EPA report, or check www.epa.gov for information. In some instances, false claims of EPA testing or approval have been made.

Product Complaints and Refunds
If you're dissatisfied with a gas-saving product, contact the manufacturer and ask for a refund. Most companies offer money-back guarantees. Contact the company, even if the guarantee period has expired.

If you're not satisfied with the company's response, contact your local or state consumer protection agency or the Better Business Bureau.

Shifting Gears: Real Money-Saving Steps
There are numerous no- or low-cost steps you can take to combat rising gas prices. The most important place to start is at the gas pump; buy only the octane level gas you need. All gas pumps must post the octane rating of the gas under the FTC's Fuel Rating Rule. Remember, the higher the octane, the higher the price. Check your owner's manual to determine the right octane level for your car.


Here are some additional tips from the EPA to help you get better gas mileage.

Drive more efficiently.

1. Stay within posted speed limits. The faster you drive, the more fuel you use. For example, driving at 65 miles per hour (mph), rather than 55 mph, increases fuel consumption by 20 percent. Driving at 75 mph, rather than 65 mph, increases fuel consumption by another 25 percent.

2. Use overdrive gears. Overdrive gears improve the fuel economy of your car during highway driving. Your car's engine speed decreases when you use overdrive. This reduces both fuel consumption and engine wear.

3. Use cruise control. Using cruise control on highway trips can help you maintain a constant speed and, in most cases, reduce your fuel consumption.

4. Anticipate driving situations. If you anticipate traffic conditions and don't tailgate, you can avoid unnecessary braking and acceleration, and improve your fuel economy by 5 to 10 percent. In city driving, nearly 50 percent of the energy needed to power your car goes to acceleration. Go easy on the gas pedal and brakes. "Jack-rabbit" starts and sudden stops are wasteful.
Avoid unnecessary idling. Turn off the engine if you anticipate a lengthy wait. No matter how efficient your car is, unnecessary idling wastes fuel, costs you money and pollutes the air.
Combine errands. Several short trips taken from a cold start can use twice as much fuel as one trip covering the same distance when the engine is warm.

5. Remove excess weight from the trunk. Avoid carrying unneeded items, especially heavy ones. An extra 100 pounds in the trunk reduces a typical car's fuel economy by one to two percent.

Maintain your car

1. Keep your engine tuned. Studies have shown that a poorly tuned engine can increase fuel consumption by as much as 10 to 20 percent depending on a car's condition. Follow the recommended maintenance schedule in your owner's manual; you'll save fuel and your car will run better and last longer.

2. Keep your tires properly inflated and aligned. Car manufacturers must place a label in the car stating the correct tire pressure. The label usually is on the edge of the door or door jamb, in the glove box, or on the inside of the gas cap cover. If the label lists a psi (pounds per square inch) range, use the higher number to maximize your fuel efficiency. Underinflated tires cause fuel consumption to increase by six percent.

3. Change your oil. Clean oil reduces wear caused by friction between moving parts and removes harmful substances from the engine. Change your oil as recommended by the vehicle manufacturer.

4. Check and replace air filters regularly. Your car's air filter keeps impurities in the air from damaging internal engine components. Not only will replacing a dirty air filter improve your fuel economy, it also will protect your engine. Clogged filters can cause up to a 10 percent increase in fuel consumption.


Consider buying a fuel efficient vehicle. Deciding which vehicle to buy may be the most important fuel economy decision you make. The difference between a car that gets 20 MPG (miles per gallon) and one that gets 30 MPG amounts to $1,500 over 5 years, assuming gas costs $1.50 per gallon and you drive 15,000 miles a year.

Visit www.fueleconomy.gov for more information. You'll find gas mileage estimates and other data from EPA for 1985-2003 model year cars.

[ghosthunter]

Mr odeereambillo,

I guess you are more in position to answer some of these questions (since you are a dealer of the device) aready asked before (but never answered at all):


quoted from khaos website:
====================
KHAOS Super Turbo Charger is the 4th generation PLANAS Super Turbo Charger that has been proven effective for 30 years now. It is designed to give your Engine the "ULTIMATE POWER", Fuel Consumption Efficiency and Pollution-Free Performance.

Does KSTC affect the engine power?
Definitely. increased in engine power will be easily felt
right after the installation because it reach the correct
mixture ratio of 15 parts of air and 1 part of gasoline and
so complete combustion was made.

Is Khaos Super Turbo Charger (KSTC) proven
already?
Yes, it has been used by motorist for 30 years already
and it gone thorough testing conducted by leading car
manufacturers and government agencies. Results showed
a saving on gas consumption, increased in engine power
and brough carbon monoxide level down to zero. (as
evident by an award winning- Tuklas Award and
Presidential Most Outstanding Invention award)


Maybe you can list the agencies and the car MANUFACTURERS and post the documents supporting this.

How was the "correct" mixture of 15:1 air-gas ratio measured? If you can measure such, what instrument was used?

The statement "pollution-free"... does that include NOx & SOx emissions? (SOx for diesel engines).

As stated in the quote from the website: increased engine power and carbon monoixde level down to zero... how was this measured and verified?

[ghosthunter]

Originally posted by Kris
to ghosthunter: odee is the dealer of the said device, and not the inventor. he sells that product coz he believes it does work. therefore, i dont think he is in that position to give u scientific facts to prove that this device does really work. why dont u try it urself and tell us if it really does work or not?

Wow, your first (and only) post.

some scientific facts that the device does not deliver as promised:

(Note: these has been posted before in this message thread)

http://home.earthlink.net/~graham1/M...s/LeanBurn.htm


Lean Burn - Why it is Usually Avoided

An Otto Cycle engine is made to operate below its peak power by restricting the flow of air into the engine with a throttle valve. Drawing air into the cylinder past this restriction creates a partial vacuum, which takes energy. The reduction in fuel efficiency thus caused is called "pumping loss". The Prius engine uses the Atkinson Cycle to reduce this loss. Power reduction is achieved by keeping the intake valve open and expelling part of the fuel/air mixture as the piston rises. A side effect is a lower peak power for a given engine size.

An apparently superior method to either closing the throttle or expelling fuel/air mixture is to keep the volume of air allowed into the cylinder the same as for full power and to reduce only the amount of fuel. This is called "lean burn", because a fuel/air mixture with less fuel than is needed to consume all the oxygen in the air is called "lean". Some engines use this technique, notably the Honda Insight engine. However, special design considerations are needed to overcome several problems. This side-bar explains why lean burn is not the "silver bullet" it at first appears to be. It should not be taken to mean that there is anything wrong with engines properly designed to use lean burn.


High Temperature, Pre-Ignition and Detonation Caused by Lean Burn

Normal combustion is never complete; by the phenomenon of thermal equilibrium, there remains an unburned boundary layer of air-fuel mixture insulating the metal components of the combustion chamber from the propagating flame front, that fractal beast of burning air/fuel mixture originating at the spark plug. A dangerously lean air/fuel mixture burns with most efficiency, so much that the insulating boundary layer also gets consumed and the flame front touches the metal walls. At those locations, there is a dramatic rise in temperature, high enough to cause subsequent charges of air and fuel to spontaneously ignite resulting in multiple flame fronts. This is pre-ignition. Preceding each flame front is its sonic pressure wave whose collisions we hear as knocking and pinging. Allowed to persist, colliding sonic pressure waves will concentrate on the irregular shapes present (edges of pistons, valves, even the spark plug) to cause severe damage, just as you could with a hammer in your hand; this is detonation.


Similar Problems with Octane Too Low

Also, using fuel whose octane is too low, that is, fuel with a greater tendency to spontaneously ignite under the heat and pressure of a particular engine, can instigate multiple flame fronts with their usual knocking, pinging, and risk of damage from heat or detonation.


Oxides of Nitrogen Emissions Caused by Lean Burn

In addition to the engine damage problems caused by lean burn, high combustion temperatures and an excess of oxygen cause the formation of oxides of nitrogen. The respiratory problems caused by air pollution are due in large part to these emissions and reducing them is an important goal of environmentally sensitive vehicles. The Honda Insight has special equipment to trap and convert oxides of nitrogen in the exhaust. Even so, with lean burn it is unable to qualify as a SULEV vehicle because of the remaining oxides of nitrogen that cannot be removed.

===============

Oxides of Nitrogen Emissions Caused by Lean Burn

In addition to the engine damage problems caused by lean burn, high combustion temperatures and an excess of oxygen cause the formation of oxides of nitrogen. The respiratory problems caused by air pollution are due in large part to these emissions.

===============
http://www.misterfixit.com/deton.htm
http://home.earthlink.net/~graham1/M...s/LeanBurn.htm

These are some interesting effects of a lean burn in a standard engine:

-High Temperature - this causes higher than normal operating temperatures. This can lead of your engine overheating. This WILL also result in your motor oil to degrade quicker than it normally would. This will lead to MORE oil changes ... not less.

-Pre-Ignition - This occurs when a point within the combustion chamber becomes so hot that it becomes a source of ignition and causes the fuel to ignite before the spark plug fires. This, in turn, may contribute to or cause a detonation problem. Instead of the fuel igniting at the right instant to give the crankshaft a smooth kick in the right direction, the fuel ignites prematurely (early) causing a momentarily backlash as the piston tries to turn the crank in the wrong direction. This can be very damaging because of the stresses it creates. It can also localize heat to such an extent that it can partially melt or burn a hole through the top of a piston!

-Detonation - (also called "spark knock") is an erratic form of combustion that can cause head gasket failure as well as other engine damage. Detonation occurs when excessive heat and pressure in the combustion chamber cause the air/fuel mixture to autoignite. This produces multiple flame fronts within the combustion chamber instead of a single flame kernel. When these multiple flames collide, they do so with explosive force that produces a sudden rise in cylinder pressure accompanied by a sharp metallic pinging or knocking noise. The hammer-like shock waves created by detonation subject the head gasket, piston, rings, spark plug and rod bearings to severe overloading.

=======================

http://www.healthgoods.com/Education...evel_ozone.htm

Ground-Level Ozone

Ozone that occurs naturally in the upper atmosphere surrounding the Earth provides a filter for the damaging ultraviolet light emitted by the Sun. At ground level, ozone is harmful to living things. Ground-level ozone is an air pollutant that damages human health, vegetation, and many common materials. It is a key ingredient of urban smog.

Sources

Ground-level ozone is not emitted directly into the air, but rather is formed by gases called oxides of nitrogen (NOx) and volatile organic compounds (VOC), which in the presence of heat and sunlight, react to form ozone. Ground-level ozone forms readily in the atmosphere, usually during hot weather. As a result, it is known as a "summer-time" air pollutant. Emissions of NOx are produced primarily when fossil fuels are burned in motor vehicle engines, power plants, and industrial boilers. There are hundreds of thousands of sources of VOC emissions including automobile emissions, gasoline vapors, chemical solvents, and consumer products like paints.

Health & Environmental Effects

Repeated exposure to ozone pollution for several months may cause permanent structural damage to the lungs. Because ozone pollution usually forms in hot weather, anyone who spends time outdoors in the summer is at risk, particularly children, moderate exercisers, and outdoor workers.

Even when inhaled at very low levels, ground-level ozone triggers a variety of health problems including aggravated asthma, reduced lung capacity, and increased susceptibility to respiratory illnesses like pneumonia and bronchitis.

=========================

http://www.splitfire.com/instrument_functions.htm

A vacuum meter is used to monitor the amount of negative pressure (suction) in the intake manifold. A vacuum meter reading is used to diagnose a variety of engine problems, from a blown head gasket to worn valve guides. It also can be used to monitor fuel economy, with high vacuum readings indicating good fuel economy and low vacuum readings indicating poor fuel economy.

[the_wildthing]

Originally posted by buknoy2002
Questionlang po.

Who in this forum can give an "expert opinion"?

Good question. If there's anyone in the academe and/or into research for quite a while, plus has a relevant degree, masteral or doctorate preferred...

Just like if you had a thesis and you had to present it, who are the members of your panel? Experts in the field of study (ideally).

[odeereambillo]

Originally posted by kiper
First Post-First Question ko sa Gas saving device Thread na to..di masagot nung nagbebenta..Pano ako bibili ng produkto mo nyan. You should know what is your product, how it works and why should your prospective customers buy your product. Gumana nga ung produkto mo, di naman maintindihan ng consumer kung pano gumana ung produkto mo..ano un magic? Business 101..hehe Business Administration ang kurso ko eh...sensya na.

Odee, Pwede mo ako bigyan ng Guarantee na by the time na hindi ako masatisfy sa product mo bayaran mo ko ng P20,000? Hindi kasi ako mahilig sa MONEY BACK GUARANTEE eh..mas okay kung meron akong pambayad sa repair pag may nasira sa Auto ko, diba?

Masyadong malakas sa gas ung FORD Escape XLT 4x4 A/T ko..baka ikaw na ang pag-asa ko. Baka try ko muna sa Escape.

We have 3 SUV's (2 Gas & 1 Diesel), 1 Diesel Pick-up Truck and 25 plus Heavy Trucks..pag-nasatisfy mo ko bili ako 30 units of your KHAOS.

Nakikita mo ung FORD CLUB PHILIPPINES sa signature ko sa baba? Sabi niyo accredited na to ng FORD Phil Dealers, Pwedeng-Pwede kami mag GROUP BUY.

Pakisabay na rin lahat ng Legalities, Documents etc.. Nasa internet tayo eh. Walang masama kung meron kang mga maipapakita diba?

Sagot, Bilis sayang ang time..!!



Good Day to you sir Odee.

Jason Kiper.






and Kris.. WELCOME TO TSIKOT..!! Post naman kayo sa Pitstop..masaya dun..diba ate Gretzy?!! We are one big family here!

Sir Jason,

sorry sa late reply!

up and down kasi internet namin e. anyway...

Sir, kung gusto niyo po talaga maka-sigurado, you can ask Ford Makati regarding the status of the deal of Ford Phil with Mr Planas/Inventionhaus International Corp (IIC is the manufacturer of the device). This way po you can share to the group kung ano man info ang makuha niyo. Sensya na po isa lang po akong hanak na distributor, at sa tingin ko sa ganito lang natin matatanggal ang mga doubts ng ating mga ka-grupo.

Also, if you really want (money-back) security you can get the device at Ford narin. I believe Ford Phil already got the deal. Welcome po kayo sa shop ko just in case mahal ibigay ng Ford. From what i heard nagpa-customize sila ng color scheme. yung flat black po yata.

Sana po naliwanagan ko kayo.

thanks po and more POWER sa inyo, sir Jason!

Odee