2020 Nissan Kicks

[17Sphynx17]

One of the parameters for the engine to turn on and off is road noise ...

Per the manual. Other than charging the battery or hard acceleration/spirited driving. The engine will start with the following conditions:
- When depressing the brake pedal (to generate negative pressure of the brake booster)
- When driving on a long downhill (to generate deceleration)
- When turning on the heater (to increase the engine coolant temperature - if equipped)
- When the engine is cold (to warm up the engine) <-- this was our first guess about what I posted
- When opening the hood with the e-Power system running (to avoid an accident when performing maintenance
- When turning turning on the front defogger switch

About the Road Noise, the car is equipped with a VSP (Vehicle Sound for Pedestrian) as Nissan Terms it. So that even in EV/Silent running, people (especially the blind) will be able to hear the vehicle as it gets nearer you. Specifically have hear the VSP now when the Kicks was going in reverse. It wasn't the typical beeps like a truck, but sort of a slightly weaker beep with a reverb like the sound is vibrating "through water" a little.

No idea how to test the Intelligent Emergency Braking (except if there is enough room to accelerate and use Balloons to be the obstruction), as well as the Forward Collision Warning. While stopped and car is in D but foot on the brake pedal, tried to walk in front of the Kick's Logo (which is where the sensor should be locate), near/up close, or about 2meters away, nothing was showing up on the dashboard screen for the IFCW. No idea yet if it only works if in motion. But he already tried moving forward close to a parked car but no warning sounds were emitted by the car at all.

[ice15]

R18X something parin yung engine ng new HR-V? The turbo variant is newish powertrain right? Same engine in the current Civic?

its the L15... same as the City

[ice15]

Maintenance savings would be ... lesser cost on maintenance of the brake system ... no alternator to consider ... no starter ...

Tesla might be cheaper to run but how much do they cost to acquire? ...

if you saw CarGuide's calculation...

Corolla GR-S vs HEV

You will need 61.6K kms to breakeven the 293K price difference (gas price calculated at 83pesos/l).

now imagine the price difference of the Leaf vs the Kicks (1.2+M)

there's is no way you can breakeven the cost of the Leaf in 10 years (except if you use it as a GrabCar)

Tesla is also way more expensive that the Leaf.

[Dr.Kamiya]

Yeah I agree no one will be cross-shopping the Kicks vs a Tesla, the point of my last post was just to point out that even a very high-end EV will still be cheaper to run than the e-power hybrid. Just another example of Terry Prachett's Economic Theory of Boots.

But when and if we do get cheaper BEVs those will give the Kicks a run for the money.

[ice15]

Yeah I agree no one will be cross-shopping the Kicks vs a Tesla, the point of my last post was just to point out that even a very high-end EV will still be cheaper to run than the e-power hybrid. Just another example of Terry Prachett's Economic Theory of Boots.

But when and if we do get cheaper BEVs those will give the Kicks a run for the money.

problem with full EVs is that the battery is just too expensive...

plus our Gov't has no plans to give us incentives to buy one.

so officially, the cheapest EV we have is the BYD Dolphin, at 1.8M... are you really willing to buy it over the Innova V?

[17Sphynx17]

problem with full EVs is that the battery is just too expensive...

plus our Gov't has no plans to give us incentives to buy one.

so officially, the cheapest EV we have is the BYD Dolphin, at 1.8M... are you really willing to buy it over the Innova V?

https://www.autoindustriya.com/auto-...lic%20Act%20No.

In terms of incentives, the "newest" law lapsed into one this year April 15, 2022

just on the article, the main "cash discount" in that law indicated

- A 30% discount for battery-electric vehicles (BEVs) and 15% discount for hybrid-electric vehicles (HEVs) from the payment of the Land Transportation Office’s (LTO) motor vehicle use’s charge, vehicle registration, and inspection

And, supposedly

- Exemption from ‘coding’ or the Unified Vehicular Volume Reduction Program (UVVRP) by the Metropolitan Manila Development Authority (MMDA) and any LGU (yes, that includes Makati City) <-- checked the law. It states EV in the legal definition of RA 11697 includes BEV, hybrid electric vehicles, light electric vehicles,and a plugin hybrid electric vehicles. So the Kicks should be part of the exemption of RA 11697.

https://www.officialgazette.gov.ph/d...-11697-RRD.pdf

MMDA doesn't mention anything in their site. And hotline this weekend said per operators knowledge hindi included sa exemption but it can be verified with Office of the Chairman kung may batas about it. Looks like hindi pa "considered" na may RA 11697 na nagoverrule sa OVVRP as noted is Section 25.a.2

[_Qwerty_]

alam kaya nang LTO at MMDA yan? na wala coding pag EV at Hybrid.. teka.. alam ba nila kung ano ano sasakyan ang EV at Hybrid?

https://www.autoindustriya.com/auto-...lic%20Act%20No.

In terms of incentives, the "newest" law lapsed into one this year April 15, 2022

just on the article, the main "cash discount" in that law indicated

- A 30% discount for battery-electric vehicles (BEVs) and 15% discount for hybrid-electric vehicles (HEVs) from the payment of the Land Transportation Office’s (LTO) motor vehicle use’s charge, vehicle registration, and inspection

And, supposedly

- Exemption from ‘coding’ or the Unified Vehicular Volume Reduction Program (UVVRP) by the Metropolitan Manila Development Authority (MMDA) and any LGU (yes, that includes Makati City) <-- checked the law. It states EV in the legal definition of RA 11697 includes BEV, hybrid electric vehicles, light electric vehicles,and a plugin hybrid electric vehicles. So the Kicks should be part of the exemption of RA 11697.

https://www.officialgazette.gov.ph/d...-11697-RRD.pdf

MMDA doesn't mention anything in their site. And hotline this weekend said per operators knowledge hindi included sa exemption but it can be verified with Office of the Chairman kung may batas about it. Looks like hindi pa "considered" na may RA 11697 na nagoverrule sa OVVRP as noted is Section 25.a.2

[Stigg ma]

alam kaya nang LTO at MMDA yan? na wala coding pag EV at Hybrid.. teka.. alam ba nila kung ano ano sasakyan ang EV at Hybrid?

syempre hinde kase basta gobyerno palpak yan, ako ayaw na ayaw ko yung every year pumupunta sa LTO para mag pa rehistro kase lagi palpak, ngayon pala pwede na ang no show sa LTO registration kahit sa toyota at sa auto association of the phil basta tapos ka na mag pa emission...

[ice15]

ngayon pala pwede na ang no show sa LTO registration kahit sa toyota at sa auto association of the phil basta tapos ka na mag pa emission...

yup... laking bagay nito na bayaran mo na lang yung PMVIC para sila na mag rehistro ng sasakyan.

kainis lang sa motor ko... wala pa sa system ng LTO kaya kailangan personal appearance talaga

[ice15]

alam kaya nang LTO at MMDA yan? na wala coding pag EV at Hybrid.. teka.. alam ba nila kung ano ano sasakyan ang EV at Hybrid?

sana iba plate ng hybrid/EV 1111AAA (instead of AAA1111) para kita agad ng enforcer na wala syang coding.

[17Sphynx17]

alam kaya nang LTO at MMDA yan? na wala coding pag EV at Hybrid.. teka.. alam ba nila kung ano ano sasakyan ang EV at Hybrid?

Per update in telephone convo. Hotline and initial escalation sabi walang exemption ang EV and Hybrid. Pero when insisted na RA11697 is a National Law and can't be overruled by a memorandum or ordinance, new escalation to return call again when available yung higher up. hehe!

EDIT 1: Calling the MMDA numbers. From hotline -> Office of the Chairman -> Office of the Chairman escalation (return call) -> To Traffic Discipline Office -> To Traffic Discipline Office Director Escalation... Waiting for their attorney/legal department feedback and need to Return Call. Hehe!

After matapos ito LGU query naman with QC and Makati to be on the safe side din para walang sabit. Para di umabot sa punta na lilipad yung 15k to 35k special plate application fee na hindi mo naman pala kelangan.

By RA 11697, the exemption is automatic and should be enforced for 8 years after effectivity of act. Since it lapsed into law April 15, 2022. Sec33 Effecitivity states 15 days after. So April 30,2022 to April 30,2030 wala dapat effect ang any UVVRP programs or ordinances ng any agency or LGU to Hybrids and EVs.

Ang tanong ko, panu yung mga MHEV tulad ng Okavango na reliant mainly of ICE engine and mainly additional "Boost" or torque lang ang Li-ion or capacitors nila? Damay din ba sila? Kasi walang specificity ang hybrid electric vehicle na mention sa definition of terms. As the definition in the law, Hybrid-electric Vehicles (HEV) refers to a vehicle with both rechargeable energy storage system and a fueled power source for propulsion.

On reading, damay kahit MHEV ka lang din. That should apply sa may stop-start system kasi may "rechargable" energy storage system like Mazda? Kasi the storage is capacitor type. Walang specific exclusion for those.

EDIT 2: As per MMDA TDO Director's Office. Per their Attorneys/Legal Division, although asa law na niya, posted on Official Gazette website ng PH government, as of this time, wala pa din black and white na IRR ang RA 11697 kaya di pa maenforce/effective. So pag may IRR na si RA 11697 tsaka na revisit yung exemption.

[ice15]

Ang tanong ko, panu yung mga MHEV tulad ng Okavango na reliant mainly of ICE engine and mainly additional "Boost" or torque lang ang Li-ion or capacitors nila? Damay din ba sila? Kasi walang specificity ang hybrid electric vehicle na mention sa definition of terms. As the definition in the law, Hybrid-electric Vehicles (HEV) refers to a vehicle with both rechargeable energy storage system and a fueled power source for propulsion.

actually... naiisip ko itong kicks.

magtatalo kayo ng LTO na hybrid sya tapos puro e-power yung sticker nya

[17Sphynx17]

actually... naiisip ko itong kicks.

magtatalo kayo ng LTO na hybrid sya tapos puro e-power yung sticker nya

Haha! Oo nga. kasi hindi for propulsion yung gas engine. asa gitna ng BEV and HEV definitions. di din PHEV. haha!

Pero kung gugustuhin nila Mazda and Geely, pwede dapat nila ilaban in support of their models na MHEV or yung may capacitor "start-stop" systems na kasali sila just by definition ng batas. Unless yung IRR sabihin na dapat you can move the vehicle a minimum of X kms using Electric power alone to count as a HEV. Kaso papalag si Toyota naman kung ganun. Haha!

[ice15]

2nd... pwede ka bumili ng non-hybrid Cross tapos lagyan mo ng Hybrid emblem


best solution talaga is a special plate.

kawawa lang yung mga maagang bumili

[Walter]

LTO will have a solution ... large sticker in the middle of the windshield ...

[ice15]

LTO will have a solution ... large sticker in the middle of the windshield ...

yun din naisip ko... large green sticker sa windscreen para kitang kita ng enforcer.

o kaya green light sa bubong na nag blink

[17Sphynx17]

Update from friend.

He is "experimenting" with "Charge Mode" when he is near his garage/home or destination of his drive when he sees that he is just at "1bar" of EV charge. That way he is at least around 2bars or below 3 bars charge before shutting off the car.

The reason he states is that during cold start after being parked for a long time, when trying to engage "Charge Mode", the screen tells him engine is not yet in optimal operating temperature to engage charge mode. And since the manual does mention about "not good" for battery to be drained as it will cause e-Power/vehicle to not start, he thinks it might be best to consider utilizing Charge Mode in such manner because of followign:
- it will at least mean engine is in optimal operating temp when it is charging his batteries before he completely turns it off and not use the vehicle anymore for the day
- He won't be fully charging the battery meaning in ECO/Sport Mode, maximum efficiency for regen braking is still enabled. The book states if the battery is "close to full" that regen braking is limited/reduced.
- When the does do a "cold start", with EV battery at 2 levels minimum, it will at least allow the engine to "smartly" start for it to reach ideal operating temperatures first, instead of just suddenly being asked to charge a low Li-on battery. Car does not know if and when the driver is already going to park the car so he thinks he has to engage the charge mode appropriately to help it achieve more "ideal" conditions.

Charge mode does drop the Fuel Economy near tail end of his trip but is still efficient at least. The Drive History has a per minute average read out which is how he can see the Economy per interval of time. Maximum of the readout is broken down for 20minutes most recent travel. This is separate from the Drive History Average FC for the "last 5 trips" that displays when you completely shut off the car.

Friend has also started using Eco Mode + B regen for maximum efficiency. In order to minimize neck whips during hard regen braking of Eco Mode, he has found just maintaining "light pressure" on the accelerator allows Regen Braking to be smoother while still sending power back to the battery. He has not perfected it and still experiences sometimes the head bob if he doesn't engage the accelerator correctly, but he is adjusting accordingly and the head bobs are fewer now.

He still can't bring it far though because he only has SI on hand. So for now, just on his current route/area where it doesn't pose much of an issue to use the car.

[ale828]

^^
nice update
hopefully he can share with us his fuel consumption once the engine has broken in.

[ice15]

I'm actually waiting to hear the worst F/C he can register.

[17Sphynx17]

I'm actually waiting to hear the worst F/C he can register.

On this note, presently system is showing his "worst" portion of drive during the "Charge Mode" at around 9km/l. This is the situation he mentioned where he tries to raise the battery from 1 bar or below to 2 bars filled at least or a little around "2.5 bars" per the readout from the dashboard.

But on next day even with a cold start, he can do a trip of around +/-2.5 kms short trip from home to a nearby store/shop/bank in his area, regular city conditions (no rush hour traffic) before he gets there. The car is showing he still has around 1 bar of battery starting from 2 bars and the engine won't need to "charge" his battery at all when he got to his destination. System showing his FC at peak 30km/l during that stint but the bar chart maxes out at 30km/l already. the live readout during regen just displays 99.9km/l per his update. So he can really give me a more accurate FC during his first full tank again. At present he hasn't even reached a total of 30kms with his full tank on the car because there is no OR/CR yet. Just using the car when possible but limited use.

Too worried to go far at risk of being flagged down with just SI and complete insurance with TPL.