Mitsubishi Montero Sudden Acceleration Accidents [MERGED]

[Junesp111]

And it will cost you what sa manufacturing and testing? And hindi yang 5$ na RTC ang ilalagay dyan kung sakali man, iba ang testing parameters ng semiconductor devices na gamit sa automotive. Lalo na ring iba sa military at medical fields.

And how about maintenance of that ECU, kung magleak batterya mo, paano ka? Nakakita ka na ng PC na di na magcharge ang baterya? Sa boot pa lang error na agad, reminding you na di na maghold battery mo ng karga.

It is very easy to say na add this and add that, but mahirap minsan mag-add ng new features lalo na kung ito lang ang maging cause ng bagong problema.

Sa mechanical engineering sabi nila, the more moving parts, the more chances of failing. Sa electronics ganun rin, mas maraming devices, mas maraming pwede pumalpak.

Pwede naman mag lagay isang pang micro controller para lang sa data logging events, connect mo lahat ng signal wire ng mga sensor sa dun para ma log ng micro controller.

pero kung ayaw ng manufacturer at kung wala naman batas nag babawal. pwede gawin ng manufacturer yan.

SUA lagi drivers error.

[spotdog11]

What about the brakes? Anybody can explain how it could possibly fail and not leave any trace?

[vvti2.0]

The electronics expert will know nothing without understanding automotive protocols. He still needs the auto expert to at least tell him what is expected in an event that the driver will do this and that.

Now this one is funny, you do not need to be an automotive expert to know automotive protocols, and to think automotive protocols were created by electronic engineers not automotive mechanics.

Ganito lang yan, ang protocol ng sasakyan ay CAN based, at electronic engineers ang gumawa nyan, ang dali lang nyan i-interpret. Sa tingin mo ba sir yung nagpa leak ng OBD 2 protocol ay auto expert?

ECU is signal based, manual lang ang kailangan to interpret the signal.

[vvti2.0]

Pwede naman mag lagay isang pang micro controller para lang sa data logging events, connect mo lahat ng signal wire ng mga sensor sa dun para ma log ng micro controller.

pero kung ayaw ng manufacturer at kung wala naman batas nag babawal. pwede gawin ng manufacturer yan.

SUA lagi drivers error.

Hindi required ng law to install one, so why bother?

Hindi nga sa atin required ang OBD, airbag at ABS.

Tingnan mo at may dalawang Japanese manufacturers pa nagbebenta na wala ng tatlong ito. At mabenta pa.

[confused shoes]

ECU, PLC, micro controller are working with the same principles, qualified electronic engineer could interprete the signal input and output.

That's what I am saying. You may be electronic expert in your field but you may not be qualified in another electronic field. Sabihin na nating ikaw ang pinakamagaling sa PLC sa buong mundo. Bibigyan kita ng firmware ng ECG diagnostic equipment, kaya mong i-interpret yan without asking a medical doctor who is an expert with ECG?

[vvti2.0]

What about the brakes? Anybody can explain how it could possibly fail and not leave any trace?

Ito ang isa sa malakas na panlaban ng Mitsubishi sa stand na driver error. Kung sa brakes ka naka-apak during SUA, di pwede ma overpower ng rear wheel ang front wheels, by default mas early mag lock ang front wheels compared sa rear.

[vvti2.0]

That's what I am saying. You may be electronic expert in your field but you may not be qualified in another electronic field. Sabihin na nating ikaw ang pinakamagaling sa PLC sa buong mundo. Bibigyan kita ng firmare ng EGC diagnostic equipment, kaya mong i-interpret yan without asking a medical doctor who is an expert with ECG?

Oo, bigyan mo ako ng test points ng ECG at ng manual nito. Ang doctor babasahin lang ECG output at i-correlate ito sa karamdaman ng pasyente, bigyan mo ng false data ang doctor, false rin interpretation nya. So pano naging expert doctor sa ECG? Expert lang sya gumamit, pero para alamin kung within calibration ito, wala na sya dyan pakialam at alam.

[Junesp111]

That's what I am saying. You may be electronic expert in your field but you may not be qualified in another electronic field. Sabihin na nating ikaw ang pinakamagaling sa PLC sa buong mundo. Bibigyan kita ng firmare ng EGC diagnostic equipment, kaya mong i-interpret yan without asking a medical doctor who is an expert with ECG?

Yes sir, firmware or program are the same, yung doctor d naman nag interprete ng firmware yung innterpet nya is the graphical reading ng ng ECG which is equivalent signal yan galing sa micro controller.

Mostly ng firmware are C++ program.

[crosswind]

If I had a Crosswind, I'd be happy if it suddenly accelerates. Because it doesn't do that no matter how hard you step on the accelerator. [emoji23]


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It will do step on the gas while in N stop at 2k rpm while rotating the IDLE control button the step on the brkae then place the shifter in D then it will accelerate on it's own

[vvti2.0]

Electronics is a very broad and flexible field, lalo na ang field na nakapasok sa programming na related sa instrumentation and control.

Sabi ko nga ulit, hindi rocket science ang ECU, mas complex pa ang algorithm ng hover board.

Ni hindi gumamit ng PID ang feedback system ng ECU.

Ang laman ng ECU matching type lang yan, wala yan clock cycle na ni allocate for intensive calculation, basic computations lang yan at nakaready na sa lookup table (map) ang ouput nya.

[confused shoes]

Oo, bigyan mo ako ng test points ng ECG at ng manual nito. Ang doctor babasahin lang ECG output at i-correlate ito sa karamdaman ng pasyente, bigyan mo ng false data ang doctor, false rin interpretation nya. So pano naging expert doctor sa ECG? Expert lang sya gumamit, pero para alamin kung within calibration ito, wala na sya dyan pakialam at alam.

Tama kelangan mo ng test points. At kelangan mong malaman kung ano ang input at ano ang expected output.
Now lets go back to the SUA issue. Paano mo validate yung firmware ng ECU kung hindi mo alam ang input at wala kang expected output?

[vvti2.0]

Yes sir, firmware or program are the same, yung doctor d naman nag interprete ng firmware yung innterpet nya is the graphical reading ng ng ECG which is equivalent signal yan galing sa micro controller.

Mostly ng firmware are C++ program.

Nope, most of the firmwares are C based. Kailan na lang nag C++.

Nung una nga assembly language pa kami, kailangan mo pa bantayan ang stack mo kung mag interrupt ka.

Yang firmware na tinatawag, wala yan iba kundi ang compiled program na nilagay sa loob ng microcontroller.

Parang sarap pakingan, firmware. Program lang yan, pinasarap lang tawag.

[Junesp111]

Electronics is a very broad and flexible field, lalo na ang field na nakapasok sa programming na related sa instrumentation and control.

Sabi ko nga ulit, hindi rocket science ang ECU, mas complex pa ang algorithm ng hover board.

Ni hindi gumamit ng PID ang feedback system ng ECU.

Ang laman ng ECU matching type lang yan, wala yan clock cycle na ni allocate for intensive calculation, basic computations lang yan at nakaready na sa lookup table (map) ang ouput nya.

Agree comparing lang ng reading yan pag mis match yung reading show error code.

[Junesp111]

Nope, most of the firmwares are C based. Kailan na lang nag C++.

Nung una nga assembly language pa kami, kailangan mo pa bantayan ang stack mo kung mag interrupt ka.

Yang firmware na tinatawag, wala yan iba kundi ang compiled program na nilagay sa loob ng microcontroller.

Parang sarap pakingan, firmware. Program lang yan, pinasarap lang tawag.

other term Micro code

[confused shoes]

firmware or program are the same

They are not. A program may not be electronic. A firmware is electronic in nature.

[vvti2.0]

Tama kelangan mo ng test points. At kelangan mong malaman kung ano ang input at ano ang expected output.
Now lets go back to the SUA issue. Paano mo validate yung firmware ng ECU kung hindi mo alam ang input at wala kang expected output?

Sabi ko nga sayo, bigyan mo ako ng testpoints at ng manual. Lahat ng electronic components ay dumadaan sa characterization sa production line. Yang characterization program, based yan sa datasheet ng component mo, andyan ang absolute maximum ratings, expected sway ng output mo at certain temp and frequency etc..

Kalokohan ang tanung mo na magvalidate ka pero di mo alam ang basis ng validation mo.

[vvti2.0]

They are not. A program may not be electronic. A firmware is electronic in nature.

Nagpapatawa ka na naman. Tanungin nga kita, ano ang alam mo sa programming?

[Junesp111]

Tama kelangan mo ng test points. At kelangan mong malaman kung ano ang input at ano ang expected output.
Now lets go back to the SUA issue. Paano mo validate yung firmware ng ECU kung hindi mo alam ang input at wala kang expected output?

Tingan mo yung daigram, tingnan mo kung ano sensor nakakabit dyan, sa output naman tingnan mo kung ang device naka kabit dyan.

kung d ka sigurado gumamit ka ng oscilloscope at signal genarator.

[Junesp111]

They are not. A program may not be electronic. A firmware is electronic in nature.

firmware definition from wikipedia:

In electronic systems and computing, firmware is a type of software that provides control, monitoring and data manipulation of engineered products and systems. Typical examples of devices containing firmware are embedded systems (such as traffic lights, consumer appliances, and digital watches), computers, computer peripherals, mobile phones, and digital cameras. The firmware contained in these devices provides the low-level control program for the device. As of 2013, most firmware can be updated.[1]

Firmware is held in non-volatile memory devices such as ROM, EPROM, or flash memory. Changing the firmware of a device may rarely or never be done during its economic lifetime; some firmware memory devices are permanently installed and cannot be changed after manufacture. Common reasons for updating firmware include fixing bugs or adding features to the device. This may require ROM integrated circuits to be physically replaced, or flash memory to be reprogrammed through a special procedure.[2] Firmware such as the ROM BIOS of a personal computer may contain only elementary basic functions of a device and may only provide services to higher-level software. Firmware such as the program of an embedded system may be the only program that will run on the system and provide all of its functions.

Before integrated circuits, other firmware devices included a discrete semiconductor diode matrix. The Apollo guidance computer had firmware consisting of a specially manufactured core memory plane, called "core rope memory", where data were stored by physically threading wires through (1) or around (0) the core storing each data bit.[3]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmware

[confused shoes]

Tingan mo yung daigram, tingnan mo kung ano sensor nakakabit dyan, sa output naman tingnan mo kung ang device naka kabit dyan.

kung d ka sigurado gumamit ka ng oscilloscope at signal genarator.

Of course, you should know what are those sensors and what they do. If they are activated what will happen.

You need something like this (quote ni crosswind below). Para malaman mo kung effective nga yung "1" or "0" mo.111

It will do step on the gas while in N stop at 2k rpm while rotating the IDLE control button the step on the brkae then place the shifter in D then it will accelerate on it's own

Only the automotive expert know it. A simulation also may not work. Pwede bang magpunta sa actual fight yung soon to be pilot na natapos sa flight simulator lang?