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  1. Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    65
    #2481
    Quote Originally Posted by confused shoes View Post
    Of course, you should know what are those sensors and what they do. If they are activated what will happen.

    You need something like this (quote ni crosswind below). Para malaman mo kung effective nga yung "1" or "0" mo.111

    Only the automotive expert know it. A simulation also may not work. Pwede bang magpunta sa actual fight yung soon to be pilot na natupos sa flight simulator lang?
    layo naman ng example mo we talking here simulation of a device (ECU). so better stick tayo dito.

  2. Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    1,181
    #2482
    Quote Originally Posted by confused shoes View Post
    Of course, you should know what are those sensors and what they do. If they are activated what will happen.

    You need something like this (quote ni crosswind below). Para malaman mo kung effective nga yung "1" or "0" mo.111

    Only the automotive expert know it. A simulation also may not work. Pwede bang magpunta sa actual fight yung soon to be pilot na natapos sa flight simulator lang?
    Hehehe.....

    Ang sensors mo ay analog in nature, hindi binary ang output nyan. Kaya ang ecu mo ay may built-in analog to digital converter.

    May mga downloadable na pin configuration ang mga ECU. Bawat sensor na nasa makina mo ay may testing procedure sa repair manual ng sasakyan, so magkakaroon ka na ng idea kung ano ang function ng sensor na yun.

  3. Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,488
    #2483
    firmware definition from wikipedia:
    Simple lang sir. Di kelangan ng Wiki.

    Pwede akong gumawa ng program at isusulat ko lang sa papel idikit ko sa ref. Program ng bata para sa umaga pagkagising ay magsipilyo, maligo, bago kumain. Susundin ng bata yan kasi nakaprogram na yan ang gagawin nya.

    Hindi yan firmware.

    BTT, just like you guys,I believr there is no SUA sa Monterosport. Hindi kelangan ng electronic expert para malaman kung human error o design failure.

    Kelangan dyan psychologist.

  4. Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    65
    #2484
    Quote Originally Posted by confused shoes View Post
    Simple lang sir. Di kelangan ng Wiki.

    Pwede akong gumawa ng program at isusulat ko lang sa papel idikit ko sa ref. Program ng bata para sa umaga pagkagising ay magsipilyo, maligo, bago kumain. Susundin ng bata yan kasi nakaprogram na yan ang gagawin nya.

    Hindi yan firmware.

    BTT, just like you guys,I believr there is no SUA sa Monterosport. Hindi kelangan ng electronic expert para malaman kung human error o design failure.

    Kelangan dyan psychologist.
    Confused ka nga talaga we are talking here firmware or program ng ECU.

  5. Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    1,488
    #2485
    Hehehe.....

    Ang sensors mo ay analog in nature, hindi binary ang output nyan. Kaya ang ecu mo ay may built-in analog to digital converter.
    Tama ka parin sir.

    Pero paano ka magkakaroon input na 1 or 0 (ex. which is equivalent to stepping on the pedal) kung hindi mo tatadyakan yung pedal?

    Kaya pala nagka SUA ang MS kasi may 1 at 0 na yung ECU input mo wala pang umaapak sa pedal. May sa demonyo nga!

  6. Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    65
    #2486
    Quote Originally Posted by confused shoes View Post
    Tama ka parin sir.

    Pero paano ka magkakaroon input na 1 or 0 (ex. which is equivalent to stepping on the pedal) kung hindi mo tatadyakan yung pedal?

    Kaya pala nagka SUA ang MS kasi may 1 at 0 na yung ECU input mo wala pang umaapak sa pedal. May sa demonyo nga!
    Pedal Accelarator signal is analog signal:

    The analogRead() command converts the input voltage range, 0 to 5 volts, to a digital value between 0 and 1023. This is done by a circuit inside the microcontroller (ECU) called an analog-to-digital converter or ADC.

  7. Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    1,181
    #2487
    Quote Originally Posted by confused shoes View Post
    Tama ka parin sir.

    Pero paano ka magkakaroon input na 1 or 0 (ex. which is equivalent to stepping on the pedal) kung hindi mo tatadyakan yung pedal?

    Kaya pala nagka SUA ang MS kasi may 1 at 0 na yung ECU input mo wala pang umaapak sa pedal. May sa demonyo nga!
    Ulitin ko hindi binary ang tinatapon ng sensors.

    Mag human error, electronics or mechanical failure. Kailangan pa rin ng Mitsubishi ng proof na walang issue nga ang montero. At hindi drive test or korte ang dapat ng proof.

    Kung di nila ito magawa, mas lalaki ang reputational damage sa kanila.

  8. Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    1,488
    #2488
    Sabi ko nga sayo, bigyan mo ako ng testpoints at ng manual. Lahat ng electronic components ay dumadaan sa characterization sa production line.
    So dependent yung electronic expert sa test points para maanalyze nya yung problema ng SUA. Meaning kung wala ang mga iyon, hindi nya magawang mag investnigate.

    Test points. Sino naggawa noon? At sino ang nagsabing kung ganito ang input, ganyan ang output. Saan mangagaling ang input? Sa pedal. Sino nakakaalam ng pedal, auto expert. Alam ba ng electronic engineer ang mechanism ng brake pedal?

    Kung meron kang output 1,0. Ano ang equivalent noon? A certain voltage. Ano ang gagawin ng voltage na yan? Pagagahin ang control ng brakes/calipers(whatever) para tumigil ang MS. Sino nakakaalam ng braking system? Electronic engineer o Mechanical engineer na auto expert?

    In short, an electronic expert alone can not do the analysis of the SUA himself.

  9. Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    1,488
    #2489
    Pedal Accelarator signal is analog signal:

    The analogRead() command converts the input voltage range, 0 to 5 volts, to a digital value between 0 and 1023. This is done by a circuit inside the microcontroller (ECU) called an analog-to-digital converter or ADC.
    Kahit ano pa ang ilagay mo sa loob ng ECU na yan. Ang mag initiate ng action ay yung "pedal" which is mechanical in nature.

    At ang end result ng pedal action ay "braking". Mechanical pa rin.

  10. Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    65
    #2490
    Quote Originally Posted by confused shoes View Post
    So dependent yung electronic expert sa test points para maanalyze nya yung problema ng SUA. Meaning kung wala ang mga iyon, hindi nya magawang mag investnigate.

    Test points. Sino naggawa noon? At sino ang nagsabing kung ganito ang input, ganyan ang output. Saan mangagaling ang input? Sa pedal. Sino nakakaalam ng pedal, auto expert. Alam ba ng electronic engineer ang mechanism ng brake pedal?

    Kung meron kang output 1,0. Ano ang equivalent noon? A certain voltage. Ano ang gagawin ng voltage na yan? Pagagahin ang control ng brakes/calipers(whatever) para tumigil ang MS. Sino nakakaalam ng braking system? Electronic engineer o Mechanical engineer na auto expert?

    In short, an electronic expert alone can not do the analysis of the SUA himself.
    Kahit wala na mechanical component pwede ma check yan base on signal lng kasi alam na ng engineer kung ano ang mangyayari sa engine mo base lng sa signal output ng ECU.

  11. Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    1,488
    #2491
    Mag human error, electronics or mechanical failure. Kailangan pa rin ng Mitsubishi ng proof na walang issue nga ang montero. At hindi drive test or korte ang dapat ng proof.
    Tama! Yun pabalik na tayo. Iba naman.

  12. Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    397
    #2492
    Ecu? Ang alam ko lang may heavy tuners na montero club dito sa pinas. They are tuned by speedworks engineering using EcuTek software. Knowing na 2 years sila sa bansa. Wala naman issue sa unit nila. Halos 2013 model pababa ang mga ecutek montero owners. Power is ranging from 220whp up to 320 whp torque is 700 foot lbs. Stock brakes are doing the job fine. As what mitsubishi said brakes are designed to stop such engine power on all range of rpm. If only the developers can be here to discuss how they did to understand the ecu of monter and remap it. I was just thinking maybe they have to technology that is not present here.

    Good job for vvti2. Well explained at di ko an maintindihan. Hahaha

    Pag mababa resale value ng montero EcuTek na lang ako. At least I can outrun 2016 models. Lels. Hehe

  13. Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    65
    #2493
    Quote Originally Posted by confused shoes View Post
    Kahit ano pa ang ilagay mo sa loob ng ECU na yan. Ang mag initiate ng action ay yung "pedal" which is mechanical in nature.

    At ang end result ng pedal action ay "braking". Mechanical pa rin.
    Sir pati break mo naka kabit sa ECU. check block diagram below link.

    http://blogs.freescale.com/wp-conten...ockdiagram.jpg

  14. Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    267
    #2494
    Quote Originally Posted by vvti2.0 View Post
    Pag inalis mo battery, reset ECU mo, pero yung datalog ng OBD mo, nasa EEPROM yan, kaya di yan mabubura. Pero wala yan timestamp.

    Kapag nag alis ka battery at may real time clock ECU mo, pano mo ngayun i-set ang tamang oras at date? Hehehehe....
    Hindi kaya yung time niya ay auto-adjust to current time once binalik mo yung connection ng battery?
    Or hindi kaya may built-in GPS radio yung ECU para mag-auto adjust yung clock niya? Just asking.
    Or may input yung GPS ng car sa ECU?

  15. Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    267
    #2495
    Quote Originally Posted by vvti2.0 View Post
    Di mo kailangan event log para patunayan kung totoo or hindi ang nangyari.

    Kailangan mo lang magfeed ng consistent signals with noise sa critical na inputs ng ECU mo, at view mo sa oscilloscope reaction ang feedback. You can even record that data and even compare the timing diagram of the signal gen w/ or w.o noise and the oscilloscope output.

    Nasa diskarte na yan ng magconduct ng testing, di mo dito kailangan ng automotive expert, kailangan mo dito electronics expert.

    Marami nyan sa atin, uulitin ko, hindi rocket science ang ECU, kulangot lang ang algorithm nyan compared sa self balancing hoverboard.
    I think, mas maganda pa ring or the best pa din ang may event log. Traced agad. That's the black box of the car.

  16. Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    65
    #2496
    Quote Originally Posted by first_light View Post
    I think, mas maganda pa ring or the best pa din ang may event log. Traced agad. That's the black box of the car.
    From previous post mentioned na wala nyan kasi the LAW does not required.

  17. Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    267
    #2497
    Quote Originally Posted by Junesp111 View Post
    From previous post mentioned na wala nyan kasi the LAW does not required.
    Well, kahit na hindi required ng LAW, kung buhay ang nakasalalay, dapat responsibility ng mga auto manufacturers yan. Kung yung simpleng mga PLC na walang buhay na nakasalalay, meron. Yung mga PC/laptops, meron.

  18. Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    65
    #2498
    Quote Originally Posted by first_light View Post
    Well, kahit na hindi required ng LAW, kung buhay ang nakasalalay, dapat responsibility ng mga auto manufacturers yan. Kung yung simpleng mga PLC na walang buhay na nakasalalay, meron. Yung mga PC/laptops, meron.
    One reason dyan is kung lagyan ng data log mag iiwan yung manufacturer ng ebidensya ng mga fault ng sensors or ECU.

    Mas madali mag turo na drivers fault yan kasi wala naman data log galing sa sensor.

  19. Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    276
    #2499
    Quote Originally Posted by Junesp111 View Post
    Sir pati break mo naka kabit sa ECU. check block diagram below link.

    http://blogs.freescale.com/wp-conten...ockdiagram.jpg
    Buti meron nito. Settled na ako. Pag step mo sa brake pedal brake lights on unless no energy or busted lahat bulb.

  20. Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    3,650
    #2500
    Excellent contribution by vvti and junesp.

    As for the blackbox, that will soon be required by other countries but don't count on it sa pinas.

Mitsubishi Montero Sudden Acceleration Accidents [MERGED]