Pls Help! Rust developing & other problems on new 2-month old Crosswind XUV AT 2004

[Skywalker]

kelvin,

I'm wondering if you live near a beach or a sea. That's a normal problem in a brand new car in Guam.

[kelvin]

Skywalker,

Somebody also asked me if I live in Malabon. I live in Marikina. The nearest body of water as far as I know, near our area, is a small creek.

How many months before rust develops on new cars in Guam? You said normal problem, do they just accept that their car will rust even how new? Do you know of any solutions people there do?

[snyc3]

it would be very impossible for you to demand a new replacement. Better talk to your lawyers na. All the reasoning they gave you are "palusot" only... you got a lemon car. Bka repossessed pa yan unit mo. Yun rust developing on your unit could be caused by either living near sea water or using PUMPED water (poso) Since it contains many mineral deposits, it leaves residues which eventually turns into rust when in contact with a bare metal surface. But if the rust is coming from UNDERNEATH the paint, then you have a big problem .it means na yun mismong metal an nag cause nun rust and it can't be just painted or repaired. Yun chemical rust retardant, temporary lang yun. sa outer surface lang yun nag eefect but not thru the metal. Parang yun sakit yan nung Starex b4 na nag bbubble ang paint...

[sugoi_yats]

heto na naman ako...ne.

before we proceed discussing about your problem, maganda ciguro eliminate muna natin ang mga environmental factors that might have contributed to your rusting problem...

so definitely malayo ka sa dagat...so out ang dagat factor...ano nga pala munting business mo pre? wala ka ba sa fertilizer business or anything that has to do with chemicals? ano-anong cargoes nilalagay mo sa car mo? where do you park your car? mey mga planta ba near sa bahay nyo?

just wondering lang...ne..so desu ne...

[kelvin]

snyc3,

I'm already looking for a lawyer. That's part of my to do list. I want to know what I can and can't demand legally and what actions can be taken.

sugoi_yats,

Retail lang, t-shirts at unan. Yun lang mga kinarga dun. Yung unang rust lumabas in 3 weeks from purchase, siguro ng nabasa ng ulan o pede rin na andun na dati pa, di lang napansin. Slightly used at that time, di pa rin nakakargahan ng mga t-shirt at unan. Parking area ay sa bahay lang, may space dun sa garahe. Walang planta malapit sa amin, residential area ito.

[mhelskie]

Living in an area near a sea is not a valid argument if you're talking about a 2 month old "brand new" vehicle. I myself live in Malabon(since childhood) and I had cars while living in Malabon. From my experience with my previously owned cars, hindi ganun kadali kalawangin ang sasakyan mo kahit sabihing malapit ka sa dagat nakatira, pero syempre may difference pag tlagang malayo tirahan mo sa dagat,hangin pa lng maalat na pag asa Malabon ka, pero kung hindi mo nman ilulusong sa baha(or sa dagat hehehe) e okei lng.Ung unang kotse ko lasted me 5 years before ko ibenta, and very minor ang naging rust problems.

Pag gagawi kyo malabon, ingat kayo sa baha, lalo na kung tirik na tirik ang araw at may baha pa din, mag duda na kyo, high tide un! Tubig alat ang lulusungin nyo pag tumuloy kyo

[mazdamazda]

did you review the warranty coverage of your vehicle?

did they mention there anything about replacing the entire vehicle if problems would arise? or does it just mention that they will shoulder the repair the said defect?

AFAIK, it is the latter.

I just reviewed my warranty coverage for the Rav4 and that is what is stated there. the only thing excluded from the warranty are the tires, batteries, and audio equipment. though the warranty for rust-proofing of pick-up beds is lower (1 year only) than the said warranty period (3 years / 100K km). i've already had some things fixed under warranty (shock absorbers, disc brakes, throttle body).

and btw, by buying the vehicle you have agreed to their terms and agreements set forth in the warranty coverage.

imagine on how vehicles would be priced if they would be replaced if problems arise.

[kelvin]

mazdamazda,

Yes, you are correct. The warranty only says that the manufacturer wil repair or replace any defective or malfunctioning part. It also says that the warranty does not cover normal aging, deterioration, or rusting of plated, plastic or rubber parts, upholstery, soft trims.

What you pointed out is the same as what the dealer told me, that the warranty does not cover replacement of the entire unit. That's the reason why a consultation with an experienced lawyer on this matter is a must. That's the only way to know what can and can't be demanded legally and what actions can be taken. DTI records show that we have certain legal rights and a replacement or refund of a car is possible, under certain conditions of course.

I know you just don't replace a car just because a minor problem arises, I understand that. In my case, I had a series of minor problems and 3 major ones (in my personal assessment only), that occurred in just 2 months. I found this not normal for a brand new car. I'm questioning the quality and safety of the car that's why I demanded a unit replacement.

If you were in my shoes, what would you do?

[jkyamog]

I might also pursue that the dealer and manufacturer have proper actions. Since I don't really know how extensive the rust it, not sure what I would like to demand if I am under your shoes.

I might however take some actions by myself. Minsan ganito kasi ako eh. Like I might go into a section of the car that is not seen, and sand away the paint just to check if there is rust in the metal. I sometimes remedy the problem myself even if it was a new car and even if my father used to work for a manufacturer. There are times that I can do the job better than these workers. Ika nga DIY. I guess medyo nasa extreme level ako, considering I used to have the priviledge to pick the workers, how they do it, etc. And even let them do it over and over again until I am satisfied. They can't say no since its my father that has the last say what to do with a vehicle having a service problem. Most of the staff are not payed well, so I can't blame them if they do this out of a living and not something they want/enjoy.

What I can say is, there are only a few real good people on a company. Even at times I know that my father used to even service the problematic vehicle himself, since his staff can't do it. The damn big boss also does not care, what he cares is the profit margins. So there is actually an internal political battle between the service dept of a company with the other dept of the company. Most of the time, service is deemed as a cost center. Although Isuzu before it closed down on the early 80s had good service level. It was genuinely supported by the japanese head office.

I guess I can't really advise you to investigate further by yourself since I think you are not really into cars. I can suggest is to get a good 3rd party to inspect the rust. I doubt that the tranny problem will hold, since it was addressed. You should still continue to pursue your original position of car replacement. I am just suggesting to look an alternative route, since based from the pictures it may not warrant a replacement.

[kelvin]

jkyamog,

Thank you for your inputs, again. Yes, I'm not into cars, computers are my specialty.

Now I understand why you said that new cars are not rust free. I will try to get a good mechanic and let him inspesect the rust. Actually, the one mechanic I initially talked to favored stripping the car bare and dipping the chasis again in rust proofing liquid. That's why I posted it here for comments. But I don't like that solution, I feel they are getting away with a poorly built car.

I really need to consult an experienced lawyer on this one. It is a good thing you see it differently, it gives me additional information to analyze.

Based on your experience with cars, what do you think of the idea of stripping the care bare, removing/treating the rust, dipping it in rust proofing liquid, repainting the car and fixing the leaf spring problem to level the car? Will that make the car stronger than before assuming it is done with care? Or will that weaken the durability of the car? How can I know if the mechanics will really do the entire process and not just hide the problems with paint? The only thing I can think of is I should see the actual stripping of the paint and disassembling of the car. As I said, I don't accept this idea but I want to know it's effect on a brand new car since this was mentioned briefly in one meeting. Thanks.

Pasensya na sa maraming tanong, bago lang talaga ako sa kotse. Kung computers nga lang sana to eh kayang kaya. I used to work in the service department of a company, it is indeed treated as a company cost, a non-income generating group and has very little influence in internal company politics. It is quite ironic because the entire reputation of the company is dependent on the performance of the service department. Oh, I might add, at one time, the service got so bad, it almost destroyed the reputation of the company. That's the only time they again took care and focus on customer service.

[pissword]

sir kelvin cash niyo po binili? dapat pala hindi cash noh

[zechs]

parehas pala tayo kelvin eh..computers ang hilig

anyway, i feel for your predicament here..para bang wala tayong magawa noh? car manufacturer's wont admit that they had sold a lemon car, who would di ba? unless isang batallion ang pumilit sa kanila..pero kidding aside, maybe you should also talk to some shops who offer rust-proofing services like, ziebart and tuff-kote(meron pa ba nito?) to get their opinions on your crosswind.

[kelvin]

pissword,

Hindi ko kinash, yung bangko ang nagcash, car loan ito sa bank. Masakit lang isipin pag di napalitan, hindi ako masaya sa unit pero kailangan bayaran in 3 years. Ok lang siguro icash kung may pera ka, basta ba magdadala ka ng mekanik para mainspect ng maigi yung kotse bago mo kunin.

zechs,

Dati wala talaga ako hilig sa computers, ECE kasi ako, ng nagtrabaho lang ako sa isang computer company atsaka ako nahilig. Japanese company rin, kaya nga iniisip ko sana may epekto yun pag appeal ko sa president ng isuzu, hehe.

Ironic ang situation ng kotse ko, nung first month na lumabas yung rust sa back door, pina full body rust proof ko sa casa, may service kasi sila. The next month lang, may lumabas na agad na kalawang, saklap talaga oo. Buti nga hindi ko sa ziebart pina rust proof, kc ligtas na agad ang dealer/manufacturer pag ganun dahil sasabihin lang nila na ginalaw na ng iba.

----------------------

I just consulted with a lawyer. What he said actually is just a validation of all the ideas and recommendations already posted here.

-the manufacturer has 3 options, to fix, to replace or refund. (this is the same in DTI records)
-determine if the car is justified to be replaced
-negotiate for replacement, justify it
-bring the case to DTI
-tell them that you will expose them to newspaper or other media
-it is not worth it to fight this in court
-file a complaint, addressed to the president directly

--------------

Mejo off-topic lang itong tanong ko para sa mga crosswind owners. Mausok ba talaga ang crosswind pag idle? Kasi yun lang napansin ko lately, natatandaan ko kasi nung bago pa ay white smoke lang lumalabas, ngayon ay kitang kita na yung mala asul na usok pag stationary at umaandar ang makina. Normal po ba ito? Around 2,500 km ang mileage.

[av8or5]

bro kelvin..i might not be driving a crosswind...but what i can tell you is that..isuzu itself has a problem with black smokes or black dust as they say it coming from the exhaust pipes...just take a look at isuzus on the road and compare it to other makes/models of diesel..isuzu is more noticeable with black smoke. raised this concern also with my ride...sabi...its because i hardly drive my car and that the speed in which the car travels isn't fast and debris are left in the exhaust system...one suggestion is to drive it fast once in a while to clear the debris or to pump the engine while in neutral and try blowing the debris out or get an annual exhaust pipe cleaning...weird noh..one thing i did is to change gas brand...good bye shell and hello caltex...not as smokey as before.

[pissword]

last option... itotal wreck nalang po, may insurance naman eh palitan yan ng insurance

[kelvin]

pissword,

nice joke, hehe. Pero hindi po pwede, babalik kasi sa buhay natin ang mga bagay na ganyan balang araw.

[Skywalker]

Originally posted by kelvin
Skywalker,

Somebody also asked me if I live in Malabon. I live in Marikina. The nearest body of water as far as I know, near our area, is a small creek.

How many months before rust develops on new cars in Guam? You said normal problem, do they just accept that their car will rust even how new? Do you know of any solutions people there do?

Medyo extreme na ang Guam pag dating sa humidity at saltyness sa hangin but it takes at least 2 years before I noticed some traces of rust ,just like yours. I don't know kung may solution but I noticed that the locals there replace their cars every 3-5 years.

A creek is a fresh water so it shouldn't be a concern.

[BlueBimmer]

1 thing im sure, if i spent (or financed) on an almost 1M vehicle and encountered these problems for the 1st 3 months, i would be very very very pissed! mainitin pa naman ulo ko...

[Bogeyman]

Spot cash man or financing yung sasakyan mo, either way pera pa rin 'yan. Customer ka eh, entitled ka dun. You still deserve to be treated fairly, because you chose to put your hard-earned money on their reputation, so they have the responsibility to live up and possibly beyond that reputation.

If the legal means fail, PM me. Meron akong pagsusumbungan niyan, hehehe.

[junniver]

you know, i also had a problem with them and i had to go to DTI Cavite just to make my point clear that i mean business. i discovered my car has a tampered chassis, it was sold to us and we weren't even informed about it, no proper documents was given to us (when i checked with LTO Cavite, my cars' papers can't be found, big wonder how they were able to register my car w/o the proper papers from the TMG), and when we called their attention to this fact, we were given the run-around. It was only when i brought the case to DTI Cavite, was i entertained and my demands met by them. (my husband wanted them to change the unit, but i don't want to coz i have a vanity plate). still, i pestered them because of the tampered chassis. besides, i was irked because they just brushed off my husband's complaint. imagine, selling a vehicle like that and neglecting to secure and furnish us the proper cleareance? all they gave him was a notice from isuzu phils that the chassis is re- stamped and not tampered. and what do they think stamping x's over chassis numbers is called??? thus, i hired a lawyer, took the case to DTI, and, presto, I got what i want. i do not want a new car because of my plate, but i told them i do not deserve to be harassed because of their negligence. (imagine getting ur car impounded because your chassis #'s stencil and the one written on your car registration didn't match). but mind you, it took me a long time to get things moving. as for hoping that they'd give you a new car??? junk it. i do not think these people care about their customers. all they think of is the profit that they'd make. that's why i didn't ask for anything more, coz sad to say, WE ARE AFTER ALL IN THE PHILIPPINES. (besides, were they able to give me a new unit, i do not think they would be able to give me my vanity plate back, i should've bought some other car instead).