Pls Help! Rust developing & other problems on new 2-month old Crosswind XUV AT 2004

[20vanda01]

Ako sinusubaybayan ko ang thread na 'to. Di lang ako makasagot or makapagreply kasi di ako makapaniwala na you're experiencing this.

Ako kasi meron ding XUVi 2002 model, so far no major issues as of now. Iniisip ko lang how close am I buying a 'lemon' car too, kasi di ko na masyadong ininspect 'yong unit ko that time.

Anyway, just keep bugging them and don't lose hope, you have a case and you're in position for a unit replacement. Pero for the meantime, while they (Isuzu) are assessing or studying the case, keep track of what are the pproblems on your unit.

[kelvin]

jkyamog,

Thanks for following this thread. It gives me more reason to pursue this matter if it could help others. Pag may nakikita nga ako customer sa dealer, gusto ko lapitan at sabihan na magdala ng mekaniko, pachk talaga, tanungin kung ano gagawin ng sales agent pag kinalawang, pag tumirik, etc. Yung isang babae na nakita ko nga eh maglo-loan din sa bangko, mukhang empleyado. Kung wala problema ang kotse na mabibili, swerte.

I already thought about it if the problem is superfiical. One officer of the dealer even commented that it could be superfical rust, whatever that means. I could post some of the pictures so you guys could see for yourself and let me know what you think. I told them that for the other minor problems (ex. misaligned bumper, scratches, deformed rubber lining, etc.) I could accept repair since there are no perfect cars. But what I find unacceptable is the sequence of events that happened and the problems that I think are major - got stranded due to a loose nut and bolt in AT tranny (safety issues), unleveled car and the rust formation on a 2-month old car.


cyberdoc95,

I'm already planning that and more. But for know, as I told them, I want to go to them directly for my complaints. If I don't get a favorable solution from their plant, I really would like to know what their president will say to me if I can get a meeting with him. As for the legal matter, I'm still looking for a lawyer to consult with. All our opinions might sound right (like demanding a replacement unit) but might not be legally enforceable. I want to pursue this to know what the car manufacturers and dealers would do on complaints like this. Laging kunswelo ko dito ay alam na natin next time mga risks involved pag bumibili ng bagong kotse. Hindi porke bago ay defect free, posible na mas malala pa sa 2nd hand.

[kelvin]

20vanda01,

Pag bago kasi ang bibilhin ay excited tayo, di natin naiisip na posible may tama ang mga bago. Nalaman ko na lang tong mga horror stories na ito ng nagtanungtanung ako. Alam ko matibay at maganda ang crosswind, marami magtetestify na mga taga tsikoteers. Kaya nga ako bumili dahil maganda feedback at naayos na mga design flaws. Sabi nga ng kapatid ko ay malas lang talaga. Sabi ko nga sa dealer ay hindi ko sila sinisiraan kahit hanggang ngayon. Kaya nga dumiretso ako sa kanila sa complaint ko sabi ko. Civil pa rin ang pakikipag diskusyunan ko sa kanila.

Salamat sa Diyos at maayos ang nakuha mong unit. Ayon nga sa post ni benderbot dun sa malaya article, "Considering that the purchase of a motor vehicle, next to a residential house, is the biggest financial investment of the Filipino consumer or worker." Ang idadagdag ko lang diyan ay "of the Filipino consumer or worker in his life time."

[5Speed]

again, goodluck to you kevin....

sinusubaybayan ko ang conquest mo for a replacement of your unit....hehehehe

[av8or5]

kelvin: good luck bro. you can also try to emailing the public relations of Isuzu philippines
ROMMEL R. CORTEZ
Customer Relations Team Manager
Corporate Affairs Department
rommel-cortez*isuzuphil.com

i hope he still works there.

I also had minor flaws with my ride, but i guess Isuzu is really not good at fit and finish of the car, but more on the engine.

I also experience a problem, but what happened was, i was getting my tint installed at isuzu makati, and after having lunch came back to see if my unit was done, what I saw was, they were painting my bumper. I asked what happened, and they said, they accidentally bumped my car into something and was fixing the scratch..i was so mad, but calm, and talked to the service manager and demanded a new bumper. Luckily, their were a couple new units available, and they swap my bumper with a new one...sadly, i hope they will not install my old bumper which they will repaint to the new unit awaiting a new customer.

[kelvin]

Here are some of the pictures. Please visit http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/ingatsarust. Please let me know what you readers think if you're in my shoes. Will you demand a replacement or will you agree to a repair? The car is only 2 months old.

1. square hole that latches to back door lock.jpg
The edges of the square are the ones that rusted in the first month. You can't see it now because they already treated it and repainted it when I first reported it.

2. left corner if you open back door.jpg
This rust devloped on the second month. When you open the back door, look on the lower left corner. I suppose these are the metal plates that attach the fenders and bumper to the body.

3. right side of back door.jpg
When you open the back door, look at the lower right corner. You can see the rusting nuts. At the bottom, you can see an L-shaped metal plate that holds the bumper to the body. The upper edge of that L-shaped metal developed rust on the first month. Only on the second month that the area behind it developed rust. The dealer's mecahnics found it and informed me. They said they also fixed it.

4. lower left corner of back.jpg
Rusting nuts.

5. metal plate holding spare tire.jpg
This is the area where the metal plate holding the spare tire attaches to the back of the door. The nuts/bolts holding the spare tire also were covered with rust, they replaced it already.

The following are new problems I reported to them.

6. rust on back seat when lifted, left side.jpg
7. rust on back seat when lifted, right side.jpg
8. deformed rubber lining.jpg

[kelvin]

5Speed,

Lampas na nga ako sa stage ng kawalan ng pag-asa. Naiinis pa rin paminsan minsan. Time consuming talaga, di tuloy ako makapag concentrate sa munting bisnes ko, malapit pa naman december. Pero excited ako makarating sa mga presidente nila at masabi ko personally ang complaint ko. Gusto ko makita reaction nila at kung anong sasabihin nila.


av8or5,

Thanks for the info, that will be helpful. I also heard that comment from others that the isuzu engine is very good but their fit and finish is not very good. I also told the dealer that the reason I complain is to give them feedback for them to improve. Let's hope my complaint will make them improve their fit and finish process.

I accidentally scratched my car's fenders, to that I already admitted to them. They are charging me around P3K for that. They said they need to strip the paint and repaint the whole thing. Were they just re-touching it or painting the whole thing? Now I know why those I talked to really don't trust car dealers. They really would prefer seeing their car being repaired.

I remember talking to an XTO owner. His painter friend saw that the paint job on his car (brand new at that time) was not evenly done. He did not notice this at first until his friend pointed it out. The dealer fixed it after he reported it. This is also my suggestion to would-be new car buyers, bring a car painter and a mechanic or a mechanic with skills in car painting, they can readily notice if the car was just repainted to hide defect or deformities or rust! It is still a precaution. It's better to spend P1k to P3k for their services rather pay for a low quality car for several years....like what will happen to me if I won't get a replacement unit, in my opinion only of course.

[rsnald]

hi kelvin...
nakita ko tong thread mo but I was not able to read all the replies.. anyways. share kon din lang yung experience ko.

I bought an XTO 2001 model (thru company car plan) , first owner ako. after about 20K, nagkaleak yung radiator ko, then after about 30K, naputol yung muffler ko. At that time, (around 2002 yata), dumadami na yung reports about the radiator and muffler issues about the crosswind. nung maulit uli na masira yung radiator ko, I wrote the PRESIDENT of Isuzu Philippines, feb of 2003. It was basically a diplomatic complaint (I was complaining but at the same time praising their product), para naman aksyunan nila yung issues about the Crosswind.
Ayun, awa ng Diyos, si Mr. Rommel Cortez lang ang sumagot na sinabi lang naman e "we appreciate your support and we'll consult our service group to better respond to your concern " achuchu.
IN SHORT WALANG NANGYARI. I even forwarded my email directly th Mr. Toru Koyasu who was president of Isuzu Philippines at that time. and as expected WALA PA RING NANGYARI. walang recall or whatsoever.

Ang ginawa ko na lang, pina-weld ko na lang yung muffler ko at kinausap ko na masinsinan yung dealer na pinagkunan ng unit ko. So I had my radiator replaced 3 times -- and even then, the last radiator replacment also failed in the same exact spot that it failed 3 times before - so basic design flaw talaga.

But don't loose heart pre, push on with your complaint. Pag wala silang ginawa, mag file ka ng complaint sa DTI. Meron namang E-reklamo (electronic complaint form) ang DTI. In fact, one of the actual cases na naka-highlight sa DTI e tungkol din sa Isuzu XUVi ....

hirap kasi mahina ang consumer rights implementation dito satin.

[av8or5]

kelvin: can't seem to access the pic..anyhow..they were just retouching the damage part of the bumper...yeah..after my warranty is over which is this feb..ill have my service done somewhere else. ill also check my car..i think i saw a small piece of rust near the tailgate of the trooper ...hmmm.

[kelvin]

rsnald,

Nabasa ko nga yung mga post mo dati na sumulat ka sa President ng Isuzu. Nagreresearch kasi ako noon kung anong magandang AUV. Wala rin pala epekto sa presidente. Alam kong pwede rin mabalewala ang complaint ko sa presidente. Pero subukan ko pa rin, mas mabuti na yung nagrereklamo in writing, at least may possibility na may mangyari. Kapag reklamo sa kwentuhan lang, mas walang mangyayari. Tingin ko nga ay mas malala yung mga problemang nyo dati. Itong kalawang naman, sa opinyon ko ay malala rin para sa bagong sasakyan. Talagang lugi ako kahit sa anong anggulo ko tingnan.

Ilalaban ko tong reklamo ko hanggang makakaya ko, kahit matalo ako. Kahit hanggang Isuzu Japan, magpapadala ako ng complaint letter pag walang nangyari sa isuzu phil. At least malalaman nila na hindi sila pedeng magbenta ng low quality vehicle dahil may magrereklamo. Last resort ko na yung sa DTI.

Nabasa ko na rin yung naka post sa DTI, nabanggit rin yun sa meeting namin. Kaya lang ibang case yun, injection pump daw ang sira at naayos daw nila. Gusto daw ng may ari ay papalitan buong unit. Natalo daw sa DTI yung nagcomplaint. Yan ang kwento nila, hindi ko alam naman yung kwento ng kabilang side.

Nag post nga rin ako ng comment sa web site ni Sen. Pimentel, sya kasi ang sponsor ng bill sa lemon vehicles. Hindi ko alam kung may mangyayari pero malay natin. Sabi ko ay sana idadag sa bill yung issues sa rust, corrossion at low quality of assembly. Humingi rin ako ng tulong kung possible.

[kelvin]

av8or5,

I also can't access the site, the period is causing the error when you click the link. Try this again.

http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/ingatsarust


Just what I thought, just a retouch. Good thing you caught them on the act.

I hear Isuzu Imus provides good service, as told by tsikoteers. I also confirmed this from the guy I talked to from cavite, the one I mentioned who bought an XTO and discovered the uneven paint. He said you could watch while your car is being repaired. According to him, he was quite satisfied in the way they checked his car.

Good thing you saw the rust in your trooper, it's better to discover while it's tiny.

[zechs]

*kelvin
im one of those who continues to read this alarming story of yours. better bring this matter to the DTI para maaksyunan nila kaagad..or gusto mo pa hoy gising! or mission x mo sila para ma-expose yung improper procedures nila sa plant nila.

kawawa talaga yung mga walang alam sa kotse then sobrang excited to get the car home that they dont bother checking the car when they got it..thinking na that the car manufacturer is producing good and free-of-defect na product..tsk tsk..

[kelvin]

zechs,

Inaaskyunan naman ngayon ng dealer. Gusto ko sila bigyan ng chance na maresolve nila. Para sa akin kasi ay antagonistic agad dating pag dinala ko sa DTI. Maayos naman sila kausap kaya ayoko rin masira pangalan nila. I-m-meet ko pa naman mga taga planta, baka yun ang masabon ko ng todo, kasi pede talaga ako madisgrasya ng may nag loose na bolt and nut sa AT transmission.

Nakita ko na rin web site ng GMA at mga public affairs show at contact details, sana maging interesado sila gawan ng feature tungkol sa mga problema sa mga bagong sasakyan.

[zechs]

at least naaksyunan na pala..akala ko your word were falling on deaf ears.

i just saw your pics sa yahoo briefcase eh yung rust na nandun is very abnormal and to think some of it are inside the vehicle pa mismo? kasi baka deeply rooted na yung pagkarust.

so what are they going to do..disassmeble the whole vehicle into pieces, strip it, rustproof it again..re-paint it again and assemble it all back? ang tagal nun..baka maghintay ka pa ng 6 months niyan bago matapos...

[kelvin]

zechs,

Under study pa yung case ko, last na narinig ko ay pinag uusapan pa sa planta. Ang next ay makikipag meeting daw ako sa mga taga planta. Initial report na galing sa warranty officer (verbal) ay repair lang lahat ang gagawin ng planta. Sabi ko ay hindi yun acceptable. Wala pa sila formal replay in writing. Yung disassemble, nabanggit lang na ganun daw ginawa sa isang case na rust related. Ang sabi sa akin ay 2 weeks daw. Hindi pa rin acceptable para sa akin ang ganung solution kasi naconfirm ko sa service advisor ng ibang dealer na rust sa brand new car daw ay major problem.

[av8or5]

kelvin: the weather strip i can tell you, they will replace that..i had mine replaced also...sabi ko nga...bad talaga fit and finish ng ISUZU...pero..sad to say..alam na nila yan...even the service advisor mentioned this sa chat namin... sad..sad..sad...

[CtrlAltDel]

In fairness to them, no decision has been officially given yet (in writing) as to what to do with the problems of the car. My complaint is still being studied by them. I'm still giving their internal procedures the benefit of the doubt.

Medyo malaki ang image files sa link kaya tagal konti makita, hehe. Pre, I think you have done an excellent job of accomodating Isuzu and their dealers even though YOU ARE the ONE suffering. I don't mean to anger you or to goad you into doing something irational. All I can tell you now is that, based from my experience working in a large, service oriented company, those who complain the noisiest, the baddest, the most-threatening, and those who write straight to the president get the FULL attention of the company and act on the complaint immediately. There's nothing like an irate customer to get people on their toes!

I can't blame you for being diplomatic on the dealers. Nobody likes to get into an argument or a conflict. If I were you, I'd probably be too stressed out already to get into more conflict with them. But enough is enough. Perhaps you should consider getting a friend or family to see members of the media to publicly complain about what I believe to be the disservice you got. Don't do this yourself. You will only burn yourself out. GET AN ADVOCATE. That is why many tsikoteers here repeatedly ask you to consider a lawyer. LET SOMEONE ELSE SPEAK ON YOUR BEHALF. Easier said than done, I know, hehehe. But really, don't you think it's about time you let someone professional do the talking for you, like a lawyer, the media or going to the DTI so they do the negotiation on your behalf? People go to Hoy Gising or Mission X all the time and get positive results, don't they?

Suggestions lang yan 'Pre. Like all the others, meron din akong kotse kaya I can relate to your predicament.

[kelvin]

CtrlAltDel,

Salamat sa insights pare, you indeed have a point. Kadalasan nga ang pinapansin ay yung mga maiingay at galit. Kahit sa pinagtrabahuhan ko dati ay ganyan din, nagkakagulo sila pag galit na customer. In the next meeting, talagang plano ko na pagalitan ang mga taga planta sa binenta nilang kotse sa akin. Pati yung mga ibang complaints ng mga forumers tungkol sa isuzu, isasama ko na rin para malaman nila ng diretso opinyon ng mga owners. Iniisip ko pa lang kasi yung nangyari sa akin ay umiinit na naman ulo ko. Bago magmeeting ay plano ko rin magkonsulta sa lawyer. Kung makakasama sya, mas maigi. Last na yung sa mga taga planta na appeal, pag ayaw pa rin, didiretso na ako sa mga presidente, cc na lang sila lahat. Pag ayaw pa rin, next stop ay isuzu japan, dun ko papadala complaint letter ko.

Yung ibang mga ideas mo, naisip ko na rin yan, yung timing lang ang pinaplano ko pa. Nakaka encourage nga iyang mga inputs ninyo, para ngang brain storming kung ano gagawin.

Malalaki talaga yung mga files para di lumabo at makitang malinaw ang mga kalawang. Pasensya na, nakalimutan ko nga pala yung mga naka-dial-up, tiyak matatagalan. Mag a-upload na lang ako ng mas maliit na sizes para dun sa hindi pa nakakakita.

[jkyamog]

I looked at the photos, it maybe just a finish problem. Don't really want to go against the trend here, and become unpopular here. But it looks a finishing problem (later stage of manufacturing) rather than on rust proofing problem (early stage).

They have addressed some of the problems right? Did you look while they where working on it? Like if the rust is deep down? Ex. some of the rust shown are on bolt heads, this will likely occur escpecially if you have said said that they have serviced your car previously from a defect. The bolt heads has been used and their paint scratched, rust will set in a few days. But the bolt should still last several more years. Some parts are like the door hindge and latches are scratched maybe because of poor finish. The parts does not fit very well so paint is scratched and likely even the protective rust coating, rust sets in. I thought the rust on the seats was in the anchoring areas (which are dangerous), you can however ask them to replace the seats though.

Judging from the just the pictures, on my personal opinion it may not warrant a vehicle replacement. But I think they can redo the fit and finish and replace any parts needed. I don't think brand new cars are rust free, unless you are buying a hand made very limited cars (Aston Martin, etc.). The dealer or/and manufacturer may not replace your car especially if it looks like a finishing problem. Just imagine how many next customers that will start complaining and taking advantage of your case.

Anyway just a personal opinion after I have seen the pictures. Its a different matter though once you have sanded the rusted area and seen how deep the rust are. For me the pictures tell me, poor finishing resulting to scratched paint and rust proofing layer rather than a rust proofing problem.

[kelvin]

jkyamog,

Thanks for your opinion. I'm actually have been waiting for a different opinion that's why I posted the pictures. I also have analyzed this before if those are minor problems that can safely be fixed.

In the first month I reported the first few problems, they treated the rust on the back door. As to how they did it, I don't know. They don't allow customers to watch the repair, the customer will be waiting only in the lounge. Some of the bolt heads that initially rusted were already replaced. The new ones just rusted by themselves. No one touched them since no repair were needed on those areas. As for the seats, the rust are on the hinges that support the seat when you unfold it. Do the hinges qualify as anchors? These are foldable seats similar to FX AUVs.

The reason why I'm complaining for a replacement is the sequence of events that transpired, the problems that occurred in just 2 months as I mentioned in previous posts, with emphasis in my opinion the major ones which are:

-loose bolt in AT tranny leading me to get stranded in a remote area (safety issues, what if I met an accident?)
-unleveled car
-rust formation

The dealer initially recommended just repair. I don't know, maybe they can really repair it. But my point is, I bought a brand new car that is supposed to be defect free. Several problems occurred in just two months. If the rust problems are analyzed by them to be superficial, what guarantee can they give a customer that no rust is forming on other metal parts of the car?

I do understand your point on the technical side of the problem and the reasons why it might not be replaced by the manufacturer. You may be right that brand new cars are not 100% rust free. But again, in my opinion (i have not worked in a car plant), car manufacturers go to great lengths to protect the car from rust for several years. Remember the commercial years ago on dipping the car in rust proofing liquid? Was it nissan or mitshubishi? Rust I believe start very little and take time to spread. My car already have those small rust spots that started from the inside. Yes, I believe it's true, even if you have a car with lots of advanced rust spots, it will still last several years. But the question is how long are you safe while driving that heavily rusted car.

You have a point that the manufacturers may not replace a car because of a finishing problem. But how about the rust that occurred because of the finishing problem? Does it really matter if the rust is deep-seated or not? I thought rust even how small is a threat to a car. Or am I mistaken? How about the non-technical side of the case? If you're a customer and you know me personally, would you buy from that dealer? Or from that manufacturer? How about the other customers, what protection should they get if the same thing happen to them? Shall we just allow manufacturers to make shoddy cars and if we complain, they will just repair it? If you were in my shoes, after paying P970K, and in just 2 months, all these happened, can you accept repair as the solution since the problems can be fixed as they told you? Would you now pay 1M for a car that has the possiblity of developing rust in a month or two? Will you be comforted if the sales agent say, "if rust develops, we wil repair it, scrub and repaint?" How about this one, "if your car stalls and you get stranded, we will send people to fix it?" In my opinion, only mine, there are things that should not happen to new cars, stalling and developing rust are two of them. If those happen, I will question the quality of the car. Even if the stalling is due to a nut and bolt, just imagine, that nut and bolt could cost you your life.

I'm thankful for your dissenting opinion because I've been really wanting to hear someone tell me the things the dealer is telling me. I also want to know if the points of view I am saying right now could be defended properly. Don't be afraid to go against the flow of the thread, it is only by discussing all sides of the subject can we really understand it and what an amicable solution can be reached.

Hindi po ako galit. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not against your opinion, actually I welcome it. If you noticed, I have several questions because those are the things that come to my mind when I think about this car. As CtrlAltDel said, this experience is really stressing me out. Just thinking of justifications for a car replacement is making my head spin, how much more when I think about the questionable quality of my car, not to mention the money spent and will be spent in paying this car.

I also have been thinking along those line of reasoning before as you mentioned. Sometimes, I also think if I should just drop the complaint and let them repair it and go on with my own business. But then, when I remember the amount I paid for the vehicle and the difficulty of earning that money, in exchange for the kind of vehicle I got, and for the sake of the next buyers, I believed it is only right to complain loud and hard. Even if I don't win, I hope it will affect them in such a way that they will be very very careful in assembling their cars in the future.