Pls Help! Rust developing & other problems on new 2-month old Crosswind XUV AT 2004

[5Speed]

kelvin, I strongly suggest that you pursue a replacement unit for your car. Repairs are not enough, on your case..di mo alam ngayon kung hanggang saan na may rust yang unit mo. ano yan kung may nakitang rust sa left door mo eh pipinturahan lang nila at ikakabit ulit? papano yung wheelwell, undercarriage, floorings na merong carpet na ang hirap makita kung me rust o wala, andaming pweding may rust na ngayon dyan na hindi pa lang lumalabas at the moment...after your warranty period, siguradong mas malaking gastos yan on your part...

hindi normal sa brand new unit ang magkaron nang rust...and dont ever think na since maulan at medyo nasa ulanan yung garahe mo eh magkakaron na kaagad nang rust ang unit mo....yung mga jeepney units nga na assembled lang sa mga malalaking garahe dyan sa taytay, it takes at least a year bago sila kalawangin, to think na iniiwanan lang yang mga yan kung saan saan at ni hindi pa yan dumaan sa proper rustproofing procedures....spray paint lang sa base metal nang primer paint na pinakarust-proofing material nila, tapos yun na yon, 1-2 max. coat of finish paint ni walang oven painting procedures yang mga yan...

think about it pare, hindi naman siguro birong pag-iipon ang ginawa mo para ka lang makabili nang brand new na sasakyan tapos eh ganyan ang mapupunta sa yo? You deserve to have the best of what your moneys worth like the rest of us here...

yun lang......



p.s. hindi po ako galit ha....just giving out my 1 cent.....hehehehe

[CtrlAltDel]

The defects will keep on coming out, the older your car becomes, the dealer is just buying time until your warranty expires.

Pre, agree ako dito kay Walter. You said that in only 2 months, your new car has:

1. Rust on body panels
2. Reverse gear problems
3. Mis-aligned bumpers
4. Unlevel car body

Just by looking at it, pre, something was really wrong with that particular unit to begin with. All those tips on hunting for the car at the plant, soliciting "insider" information- these are all well- intentioned BUT not necessary. Nobody, not even the buyer of a brand new car is expected to go to all that trouble. Even if you signed a paper saying you received the car in good condition, that is no excuse for the dealer, otherwise, the warranty would not be needed. It was they who should have checked and made sure they were selling a zero-defect car. They ARE in the business of selling brand new car, not you!

P900+ thousand is almost a million pesos! Your aim should be replacement not just repair. Have you already tried writing to the President of Isuzu Motors Corporation himself? I believe it would help. Good luck!

[Skywalker]

kelvin,

Check mo na rin ang radiator at exhaust pipe mo. Hindi ko alam kung na solve na nila yun.

[111prez]

signing a document that says "received in good condition" will not overturn the obligations and liability of the seller under the law. in fact, any provision in a contract that is contrary to law is not valid

[kelvin]

5Speed,

Para sa akin, hindi naman galit ang dating ng post mo, on the contrary, very helpful nga dahil informative ang mga arguments. Iba talaga pag nag b-brain storm. Salamat sa lahat ng nagpost ng mga analysis. Replacement unit nga ang idedemand ko, natapos ko na nga ang letter of complaint. Nirerevise ko lang para diplomatic ang dating pero very firm, hindi yung threatening ang dating, alam ko kasi ay pangit ang reaction ng mga tao sa mga threats. Na confirm ko na rin na may mga cases pala talaga na ganito na kinakalawang agad, kung ano solusyon, yun ang hindi ko pa malaman.

Chinek ko rin kanina yung kotse, kumakalat na nga yung kalawang sa mga gilid gilid at suluk-sulukan kung saan nakakabit at pinagkakabitan ng bumper sa likod, nababakbak na ang pintura. Nagulat nga ako kanina dahil pati pintura sa side fender ay nababakbak na, maliit pa nga lang sa ngayon.

Kinunan ko rin ng mga pictures, isasama ko sa complaint letter ko. Yung sinabi ni yebo na pinapa notarize ang letter, ginagawa pala talaga yun sabi ng sister ko, kahit sa mga memo, para daw may dating yung letter at magiging legal document na agad. Hindi ko naman gagawin yun sa ngayon kasi baka maging threatening ang dating, gusto ko muna lahat ay diplomatic at gusto ko ipakita na sa kanila ko agad nilapit ang issue. Ayokong i-assume agad na babaliwalain nila ang case ko, pero syempre dapat nakaready na ang mga backup plan just in case.

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CtrlAltDel,

Oo, mahal na nga ang mga AUV ngayon, halos 1 million na. Hindi nga basta basta naiipon ang 1M. Sa case ko ay loan ito, kaya kayod talaga ako sa 3 taon.

Yun din expect ko sa brand new car, dapat well built dahil nga may mga quality control at mahal sya. Kaya lang ay sa mga kwento na narinig ko, di talaga ganun ang nangyayari. Meron nga daw nangyayari para sa mga VIP, padadalhan ng casa ng 5 or 7 cars na parepareho para pagpilian lang. Ibig sabihin, marami talaga ang hindi well built. Ngayon pa lang ako magbibigay ng letter of complaint, dadaan muna ako sa normal channels pero balak ko i-cc yung sulat dun sa pinakamataas na posisyon meron sa casa.

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Skywalker,

Ayon dito sa forum ng mga crosswind, naayos na raw yung radiator at exhaust pipe problem ng crosswind. Hindi ko matandaan kung 2002 pa. Tinanong ko rin sa casa yang issue na yan at nasolve na nga raw. Pero minsan nag-aalala ako na baka lumabas nga ang problema. Maigi talaga na chinicheck.

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Sa mga nakakabasa sa thread na ito, ang point ko sa complaint letter ay mapalitan ang kotse syempre at masulit ang binayad ko. Kung may mangyari man o wala, and kunswelo ko na lang ay tiyak may dating ito sa Isuzu kahit paano. At least yung mga susunod na gagawin nila, mas pag-iigihan nila na hindi dapat agad kinakalawang at dapat aligned lahat at pulido ang pagkaka assemble at pagkakapintura. Sa mga bibili pa lang ng bagong kotse, at least dadag naman ito sa inyong kaalaman kung anu ano ang mga dapat i-consider. Kaya tulungan nyo na lang ako magdasal na sana ay considerate at reasonable ang mga nakaposisyon sa pinagbilhan ko. Salamat.

[dieselNUBI]

goodluck... you'll need it! !

[kelvin]

I'll be needing more than luck to solve this problem. For those wondering as to what happened, here's the update.

I already filed my formal complaint. My car was brought to the dealer for them to inspect. They then reported to the plant since I was told that the plant will be the one to recommend what to do. Engineers from the plant came to inspect the car. Later, I was called up to inform the recommendation of the plant, which was to fix everything.

-scratches on the inside body
-fix the leaf spring to level the car
-replace deformed rubber lining of the back door (new problem I found)
-rusting metal plate that supports the back seat (new problem again)
-rusting areas in the back door
-repaint peeling paint on fenders

I was told that the rust will be scrubbed and repainted.

Of course I said the solution is not acceptable. It was just like buying a second hand car. I told them to replace the car. The next day, I went to the dealer and talked to a high ranking official. I was told that the warranty does not cover replacing the entire vehicle except for cases where the body is misaligned or there are serious problems in the engine. For the problems in my car, I was told that the solution is just to fix the problems. I then told him how I felt and why I should get a replacement unit. I also said rust is a very serious problem since once it started, its almost impossible to stop. He politely informed me that they sympathize with me and they will inform the plant of my demands and that I find their solution to be unacceptable. I again will have to wait for the response of the plant representatives.

He mentioned that there was a case similar to mine where the car body was again immersed in anti rust proofing to solve the rust problem. I supposed that the car was disassembled, the paint removed, the rust removed, the car chassis immersed in anti rust proofing material, repainted and re-assembled. He said that may be the solution to fix the rust in my car. We did not discuss in length the details of this matter.

-For those car experts out there or those connected with Isuzu, is this possible?
-If this is possible, will the resulting car be better than before or will it increase the possibility of more problems to arise?
-Can this be a good compromise solution rather than going to the DTI or filing a case?
-Does anyone of you know of someone who has successfully negotiated for a car replacement because of rust or any other problems?
-Does anyone of you know of someone who went to court and won because the car sold to him is a lemon or because of any other problems?


I hope the Crosswind enthusiasts here can give their comments. Is rust really one of Crosswind's achilles heel?


For those planning to buy a brand new car, I advise you to look at a number of units before selecting one. Compare them carefully, look for problems. Bring a mechanic and buy as if you are going to buy a 2nd hand unit. I have talked lately to people who have seen brand new units with a lots of problems. Some sale agents even know this. It's a fact, there are a lot of new cars with problems. I hope you don't experience what I am experiencing right now.

[jkyamog]

Wow kelvin this is really sad.

Here is my opinion:

- Rust proofing does not equate to reversing the rust that has already started. Rust proofing is to deter and slow down rust process, not reverse the process. I don't know in fact that it is possible to reverse rust, its only possible to convert rust to some other chemical which leads to metal being taken away.
- I have serious doubt that they will disassemble down to the last nut and bolt. Just imagine the cost of that to them, that might be even bigger cost than a new unit. The plant is made to assemble cars and NOT disassemble cars. They dont have tools to this job and will not employ people just to do this. Unless you get a written agreement that you will be there to personally witness the disassembly and assembly of the car, it will not be done. This is just a run around, or they will just do a patch job to hide the rust.
- Your car is in serious safety problem. From what I have read rusting areas on the seat supports is enough to cause a recall. I have a Terrano and before I bought one 2nd hand unit I did research on it. Some early models of the Terrano/Pathfinder and Mistral had a manufacturing defect that may lead to early rust on the rear seatbelt anchorages. A recall was issued even for an old car, a set of VINs was published to identify which cars where affected. In fact on some countries you can't register your Terrano/Pathfinder and Mistral unless you can present proof that your rear floor panel has been replaced. BTW this problem did not affect locally assembled Terranos. I also checked mine, even removed the seatbelts.
- Also this is worse than body being misaligned, it can lead it worse problems including safety issues.
- It maybe possible that other units out there are affected. This maybe caused by a manufacturing defect, failed process in the rust proofing step. I don't know how you will trackdown other Crosswinds with a close VIN. Maybe insert flyers on Crosswinds you see on the parking lot, asking them if they have rust? I really don't know how to go about this.
- Since they did say that they will redo the rust proof, have you consulted a lawyer in using this as an admittance that your unit is indeed a manufacturing defect?

Good luck.

[kelvin]

jkyamog,

I'm now trying to find a lawyer to consullt with. As of this time, no agreement yet has been made as to what to be done with the car. He only mentioned that one case in our meeting. We ended the meeting with the assurance that they will talk again to the plant people to relay my demands.

Thanks for the information you gave. I never realized rust formation is really that serious, they made it sound that this kind of rust is normal. "Superficial rust" was even a term used until the mechanic with me told him it was not normal. If you would see the amount of rust forming and the affected areas, one can easily pass it off as negligible or can be easily fixed. But I'm thinking, rust forms slowly, and the unit is brand new, it should not rust. How about the other metal parts, are they already rusting too?

While at the meeting, I really thought the one case they mentioned is as easy at it sounded. Lately, I actually was thinking if that will be the agreement, how will I know or how can I be assured they will really do it? They can just easily scrub the affected area and repaint it.

As for the DTI complaint, a friend of mine who went to the DTI regarding warranty problems on a pair of P12K speakers told me that the company he was complaining to sent a lawyer to negotiate with him. If I complain to the DTI, I'm sure I'll need a lawyer. Since I'm new in court cases, I'm now trying to find how much hiring a lawyer would cost and if I can afford it.

Going to the normal channels seems to be not working. If the next reply from the plant is still not favorable, I'll try writing to the president of the dealer and to the president of Isuzu Phil, for what its worth.

[5Speed]

again, goodluck to you kelvin... I really really sympathize with you on this...

push them and dont let them push you, its your right....

[Walter]

Go to the DTI and try to see if you can find a friend who is a lawyer, ask your friends and relatives if they know a lawyer. A notarized letter from a lawyer will mean that you have had enough of being passed around and they will start taking you seriously. Don't wait for them anymore as they are just buying time. It is normal practice for any business to lower cost as much as possible and that is what they are doing but you paid for a new car and a brand new car is supposed to be free of defects. What they gave you can be classified as a lemon already.

[kelvin]

Yes, a brand new car should be free of defects, I also told them that among other things when I gave them a piece of my mind. But they argue that the warranty does not cover replacement of the whole unit except for extreme engine problems and a deformed car body. I also told them about lowering cost that businesses do. I even appealed to their sense of fairness and the seriousness of rust in just 1 month. I also mention often if they were in my shoes, they would demand the same -- car replacement. They just listened and told me they will relay my demands to the plant.

I have a friend who has a lawyer friend. His/her opinion is that if I go to court, I will not win the case because the car dealer still has a solution to the problem. I'm still looking for other lawyers for opinions, I hope I can find those whose expertise and experience are related to car cases.

I wonder if any tsikoteer here has experienced my predicament. Your help will be much appreciated. I know there are a lot of people here who love crosswinds and some even have connections with Isuzu. For those connected with Isuzu, is there really a chance of replacing my unit or am I just wishful thinking? Or is this really just a scrub and repaint solution?

Now I know why a lot of people just gave up when the car they bought is problematic or is a lemon. It is really time consuming, probably will become too expensive to pursue, emotionally taxing, depressing and demoralizing. It is really quite tempting to just grab the easy way out.

In my inquiries among friends and relatives, I indeed have heard situations where a problematic unit was replaced. However, the unit was replaced by appealing or demanding from the dealer, not by suing them or bringing them to DTI. If any of you know other real life cases, I will be grateful if you share it with us.

As for the idea of disassembling the car and stripping the body chasis to be re-immersed in rust proofing liquid, one person I know told me that it is possible. He mentioned the following:

-he said there are really persons who disassemble cars in the plant. He knows one who do
-the plant has tools and equipment to do it
-he said there are car services out there that remove rust formation in your car, and repaint your car. The car he said is disassembled so that this service can be done. So the thinking goes, if others can do it, how much more the mechanics in the plant.

If (emphasis on "IF") appeal after appeal to the dealer and manufacturer won't do any good, will the mentioned solution any good? We're debating at home, if they will strip off the paint, remove all known traces of rust and reassemble the car, wouldn't this be better than the original since they are now more conscious of assembling it right? Assuming of course they actually do it. Your opinions are very much appreciated.

[johnnyd]

i just want to add my opnion to the good advice offered already by the members. i agree with walter to bring this to dti. dti has a history of coming down hard on those who sell defective products to consumers. i hope you have already taken pictures of your car. next try to get a little media air time. this will really get their attention. and don't ever agree to have your car stripped & repainted. the rust is the result of faulty procedure done at the factory. the manufacturer should be made to pay for low quality products because you paid hard earned money for it. hopefully, the car manufacturer will review the incident & why it happened & remedy faults they uncovered. rust is the result of carelessness.

[sugoi_yats]

Sulatan mo si YOSHIFUMI KOMURA pre, president yan ng Isuzu philippines. Write him in Nihongo, mas naaapreciate nila if you write in Nihongo at he will give you special treatment... example...

Yoshifumi Komura-sama:

Ohayou gouzaimasu!

Anata no kuroma ga warui desu ne! Pwede palitan mo ne..sige na ne..hirap na hirap na ako ne....

Ahihihihi! sample lang po yan. .kaw na bahala mag improve....ne.

Gambarimasu ne!:justice:

[sugoi_yats]

Sulatan mo si YOSHIFUMI KOMURA pre, president yan ng Isuzu philippines. Write him in Nihongo, mas naaapreciate nila if you write in Nihongo at he will give you special treatment... example...

Yoshifumi Komura-sama:

Ohayou gouzaimasu!

Anata no kuroma ga warui desu ne! Pwede palitan mo ne..sige na ne..hirap na hirap na ako ne....

Ahihihihi! sample lang po yan. .kaw na bahala mag improve....ne.

Gambarimasu ne!:justice:

[BlueBimmer]

LMAO * sugoi!

anyway goodluck sayo kelvin. bumaba 2loy lalo tingin ko sa isuzu...

[Z24]

I think kung formal complain ang i-file mo and well documented yung reklamo they will act on it.

File mo reklamo mo sa isuzu phils at dun sa pasig delaership.

I heared one car company na pinalitan nila yung unit dahil sa kakulitan nung customer.

Try mo din magulit.. i might work

[kelvin]

I appreciate all of your inputs, even the jokes, it sures lighten up the mood, hehehe.

I had a meeting with their staff, this time, with one more higher officer. They still claim that the plant is the only one who can decide if the problem in the car warrants a whole unit replacement. This time, I told them I'll bring this matter up to their company president and to the president of isuzu phil if the plant's decision is still not replacement. I already asked them for the contact details of their president and the president of isuzu phil. Somehow, I find it really strange that they don't understand why a problem prone rusting 2-month old car should be replaced. Dito ba sa atin ay talagang repair repair lang to?

I should have been more demanding when I got stranded in the south because the car won't move forward because of a loose bolt and nut in the AT tranny. Just imagine if I met an accident because of that or if I got stranded in the middle of the night in some remote area. That should have been the right time to demand a replacement and let them bring that car back to their casa.

I will be meeting with officers of the plant next time. If their decision is still just repair, I will send complaint letters to the president of the casa and to the president of isuzu phil and ask for a meeting with each of them. I'm interested as to how they will react to my complaint.

In fairness to them, no decision has been officially given yet (in writing) as to what to do with the problems of the car. My complaint is still being studied by them. I'm still giving their internal procedures the benefit of the doubt. They have been professional so far and I see they're taking care of it. Let's see how it transpires....exciting to! hehehe (tawanan na lang problema habang hinahanapan ng solution

To new car buyers, try this... ask your sales agent what they will do if rust develops in the new car in just 6 months. I wonder what will they say? probably it's covered by warranty? scrub and repaint? hehehe. If it's an isuzu car, o please, let me know their reply.

Ito pa isang tanong sa mga sales agent nyo, pano kung tumirik ka? repair lang din ba o car replacement? hehehe. Balitaan nyo ako sa mga reply.

sugoi_yats,

I studied basic nihongo before, wala na ako natatandaan, Ohayou gouzaimasu na lang ata, hehehe. Hmmm...nice idea, I know some japanese friends, they might be able to help.

Z24,

Formal complaint ang sinabmit ko sa kanila, may mga pictures pa. Hindi nga lang addressed sa president. So far ay inaasikaso naman, kaya lang nahihirapan ata sila kasi ang demand ko ay replacement, repair lang nasa isip nila. Mali ata approach ko, sabi kc ng friend na lawyer ng mother ko, dapat daw ang complaint, addressed sa president, cc mga tauhan. Di bale, may follow-up pa naman ako.

Mukhang yan din ata yung narinig ko na nangulit kaya napalitan yung kotse.


BlueBimmer,

Thanks sa support. Antayin muna natin kung ano mangyari. Dismayado na talaga ako pero still hoping against hope. Malay natin baka iba sila sa ibang dealer. (Asa pa ba ako? hehehe) Pag umabot ako sa president at repair lang din ang sagot nya...kailangan na ng plan B. For the meantime, obserbahan natin kung pano nila ihahandle mga ganitong kaso.

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Sa mga tagasubaybay nitong thread, kung meron man, (hehehe) ingat talaga kayo pag bumibili ng bagong kotse. Magdala talaga kayo ng mekaniko at patingnan nyo ilalim kung nagalaw na. May nakausap na naman ako, kinalawang din, iba namang kotse, ng nagparepair sya, ibang pangalan lumabas sa computer. Dun nya nalaman na 2nd hand binigay sa kanya. Kinuha nya ang report, pinapirma sa tauhan ng casa. Iniwan nya kotse, tapos pinadalhan ng lawyer nya ng demand letter ang casa na papa jaryo sila kung hindi papalitan. Ayun, in 3 days, tinawagan sya para mapalitan ang kotse.

[jkyamog]

Ako following this thread. Sure ako marami pang iba. Good luck Kelvin. Hopefully the matter will be resolved that is just for both parties. Puwede rin kasi na ang problem is superficial, we can't really judge here we can't really see the unit.

We do trust your word in reporting the problems of the car, hopefully it will be replaced. BTW while waiting for their decision, inspect the car more you might discover more problems.

[cyberdoc95]

Hi Kelvin,

This is a good story. If you really want to get attention by the manufacturer, you could write to a newspaper or TV station and make a story about this. I wouldn't do anything less for my hard-earned money. You said you paid almost a million pesos for this vehicle and this is obviously a production error/defect.

Hopefully the manufacturer would give you a positive answer on your demand. I personally beleive you should get a replacement.

Good luck!!