Pls Help! Rust developing & other problems on new 2-month old Crosswind XUV AT 2004

[kelvin]

Good day to all of you. I'm a newbie here and a new car owner. I actually did research here before deciding to buy a Crosswind XUV. I thank all of you for your insights.

I hope the Crosswind experts here can help me on what to do with this problem. Last August 2004, I bought a crosswind xuv 2004 automatic from Isuzu Pasig. Within the first month, I noticed the following:

1. deformed plastic holder on the left side door, maluwag ang holder, hindi fit.
2. bumper is not aligned horizontally
3. rust developed on the sides of the square hole of the backdor that latches to the lock mechanism
4. rust developed on the sides a metal plate on the back of the car, near the right side of the back door.

I reported all of these to Isuzu Pasig, o-orderin pa raw ang plastic holder, yung rust ginamot ng chemcial (di ko po alam tawag) at ni-repaint at yung bumper, naalign naman. Dahil sa takot ko sa kalawang at akala ko ay normal yun pag nauulanan, nag pa full body rust proof (Savi) na rin ako ng time na yun sa Isuzu pasig. Yung kalawang daw, gumawa sila ng report at pinadala sa planta. Inaantay pa daw nila ang result.

The second month, the following occurred.

1. Somewhere in a Las Pinas company compound, after reverse, I suddenly was not able to move the car forward, the engine was functioning but the car was not able to move. May nag loose palang bolt dun sa kambyo kaya hindi nagshi-shift yung gear. Nagpunta naman sa Las Pinas ang mga taga Isuzu pasig at inayos. Probelma raw sa planta yun, hindi na fix ng maayos yung bolt.

2. On my first 1,500 km checkup I reported the following:

a. may katok sa engine area kapag nagrereverse ako sa umaga pag paalis na ako
b. pakiramdam ko ay hindi level ang kotse pag tumatakbo na, parang mas mataas ang kanang side
c. kalawang na nabubuo sa 2 turnilyo sa back side ng kotse (hindi back door), kalawang sa turnilyo na nagfi-fix ng spare tire sa metal plate, kalawang sa joining area ng backdoor at metal plate kung saan nakasabit yung spare tire.

Kahapon, nagcheck din ako at may area na kinakalawang sa back side ng kotse, malapit sa right side ng back door, malapit sa area ng original na ginamot nila na kalawang.


a. yung katok daw, dahil sa kalawang sa break area (di ko po matandaan yung eksaktong tawag) na kumakapit, lalo na pag nag overnight daw. Kaya daw tumutunog, normal daw yung sa mga kotse. Tama po ba yun? Kahit sa 2 month old car?
b. na confirm nila na hindi level, may 2 inch difference kaya di level, leaf spring daw ang aayusin para mag pantay, isischedule pa raw ang pag ayaos dahil mejo marami nakapila na kotse sa isuzu pasig last week dahil sa undas. Naintindihan ko naman yun at ayoko rin madiliin nila.
c. Yung kalawang, isasabay na rin daw sa susunod na pagabalik ko.

Eto po ang mga tanong ko, payo kasi ng mga kaibigan ko ay mag demand daw ako ng replacement car kasi 2 months pa lang may kinalawang na agad. Ang argument nila ay kahit sino naman daw na bumili for example ng honda civic, trooper o bmw, pag kinalawang agad in 2 months ay di papayag na repair lang. Narerepair po ba ang kalawang? Malamang daw ay kumalat na yun sa buong body.

Puwede po ba ako magdemand ng replacement new car? May merit po ba ang complaint ko pag dinala ko sa DTI? Meron na po bang nangyari na napapalitan nila ang kotse (sa Isuzu o ibang dealer?) dahil sa kalawang at ibang defects?

Pakiramdam ko lately ay lemon car itong nabenta sa akin. Balak ko mag submit ng formal complaint letter next week sa Isuzu Pasig. Next week ko rin balak kausapin yung sales agent nila at service advisor para i-discuss itong concern ko. Ayoko kasing antagonistic ang dating ng complaint, mas maganda kung mareresolve ang problema ng maayos.

Sana po ay matulungan nyo ako, first time ko lang nagkaroon ng kotse kaya marami akong mga tanong at marami pa akong dapat matutunan sa kotse sa mga ganitong sitwasyon. Maraming salamat po.

[woodfire]

ever thought of hiring a lawyer,just in case? to save on legal costs, you can probably seek help from a lawyer relative, friend etc...

[kelvin]

hello woodfire,

Thanks for the suggestion, i actually am not thinking of that yet. I'm still hoping that my written formal complaint to be submitted next week will be considered by isuzu pasig. Or am I just deluding my self? ;) I didn't realize until now that when you buy a new car, you must scrutinize it very carefully, just like checking out a second hand unit. I made a very expensive mistake for not checking out every detail of the crosswind.

[yebo]

sir, buying a new vehicle is not an AS-IS-WHERE-IS thing. the seller of a new vehicle has the responsibility of making sure that the unit delivered to you is what you intended to buy, A NEW VEHICLE.

kalawang is not normal in a new car, whether or not you had factory rustproofing as an spec. so i suggest for you to write another demand letter asking for a replacement. but this time, have it NOTARIZED BY A LAWYER. it does not cost much, maybe P200 for notarization fee. that will make it a legal document, recorded by a third party (the notary and witnesses who will sign the notarized document) and thus bear more weight than just an ordinary letter. state in the letter all the complaints you had written here in this thread. state also the history, how many times the vehicle had problems, when and what, what was done or what was promised. in the end, just say that you are not a satisfied customer and that you deserved to be treated better, with no other remedy than to replace the "lemon" that they gave you.

car companies go to great lengths to protect their reputations. that is why they do recalls of vehicles to fix certain problems even if the cars were sold years ago. you should not be having such problems with a brand new car. stop praying that the problems will be fixed. there are "lemon" cars from even the best manufacturers, your car is one of them. "lemon" cars don't get fixed, the problems appear one after another, you don't want to get stuck with what you have now. demand a replacement and save yourself a lot of hassles and dead hair in the future.

[altec]

dito kasi sa pinas, our legal system is the pits, so maraming di takot when people will say "so sue me". I have read so many articles and letters of people who had problems with their new cars, may mitsu, daihatsu, at isuzu na akong nabasa. In fairness, meron naman very accomodating. But some will really give you a hard time. So better put all those problems down in writing, formalize it, so if ever it comes to the point that you have had it with your lemon car, you can demand a replacement (meron bang refund sa pinas na kotse?) Yes, it is still under warranty, so you can have it fixed for free, but a lemon is a lemon, what about all the time you spent sending it back to the shop (plus all the inconvenience of experiencing the problems while using the car!)

It doesn't hurt also to have someone inside, iba na talaga ang palakasan.

[111prez]

kelvin -- tama yang plan of action mo. give them a formal written complaint in order to put everything in black and white. make it as detailed as you can possibly have it with the sole purpose of showing that, from the very beginning, you were sold a lemon vehicle. in your letter, what is important is to tell them that as soon as you saw the problem, you reported it. likewise, the problems were not due to your fault or negligence

sa formal complaint mo (and this is a common oversight) state clearly what your demand is and give them a deadline. when i say deadline, put a specific date for them to address your demand. this way, when the demand passes and they do not do anything, then you are documenting their neglect and lack of diligence

with all due respect to sir yebo, you do not have to send them a notarized letter.

if they do not act on your demand letter, then its time to consult a lawyer and have this lawyer send a lawyer's demand letter. it will be the same as your demand letter in substance but will already include isuzu's neglect of your previous demands. also, the lawyer's demand letter will be written in such a way that it is actually preparatory to a legal suit

i am very sorry to hear about your vehicle. i hope that this will be solved

my final 2 cents worth: you are entitled to a brand new replacement vehicle.

sana mga tsikoteers dito who are connected with isuzu can also help you

[5Speed]

replacement car dapat yana at hindi repair-repair lang....imagine its just 2 mos. and already have rust??? nagpapatawa ba sila?? aba eh yung nabili na secondhand na adventure nung kebigan ko eh 6 mos. na sa kanya, model 2000 pa, eh ni isang body rust eh wala pa, oil change at tires pa lang daw ang pinapalitan nya.. tapos yang sayo eh brand new?

be tough on them, kapag pumayag ka na repair-repair lang ang gagawing dyan sa car mo which is just over 2 months old, papano na yan after the warranty period? baka yung mga repairs na gagawin dyan eh worth a new car na, tapos abala pa sa yo dahil parati kang nagpupunta sa casa para magreklamo, schedule, sayang ang oras mo dyan...

get a lawyer and talk with them, if you have a lawyer friend or relative, isama mo with a formal complaint, notarized it...talk to a personnel na merong authority dun sa casa at huwag dun sa service advisor or agent mo lang...baka kasi hindi nakakarating sa itaas yung mga complaint mo...baka kino-cover-up lang nila yun sa takot na mag-reflect sa kanilang performance....if possible dapat kaharap sila kapag nag-usap kayo para walang maitago na detalye.....

para sa akin, yan ang tamang first step na gawin... hindi ka naman nakikipag-away sa kanila eh...kelangan lang na maipakita mo sa kanila na me know-how ka sa proper proceeding regarding that kind of problems otherwise eh mapapasama ka lang sa mga iba nating kababayan na nakabili nang lemon cars na nagpadaan sa boladas nang mga service advisors at agents, and ending up with a big headache sa unit na nabili nya tapos hindi pa masaya sa acquisition nya na antagal na pinag-ipunan....then dun nagsisimula yung bad mouthing sa particular brand nang sasakyan w/c is unfair din naman sa manufacturers.... as they say, parating may lemon na unit sa kahit na anong brand...kahit Mercedes or BMW nagkakaron nyan.....

[pink_cadillac]

Big companies will treat customers like garbage. My experience with these things is have them repair it, compensate you, but make sure everything is on record in case you decide to sue them.

Suing them yields you nothing but annoyance, but it goes the same for them. Thing is, you are an individual, they are a company with a relatively massive bureaucracy.

Simply more stations to pass the buck around.

Sometimes it makes you think that though they do not sell second hand cars, they act as if they can out-do the moral irresponsibility of a decrepit used car salesman.

[chieffy]

ask for a replacement by:

1. writing a formal complaint addressed to their sales manager or dealership owner

kapag di nakuha sa santong dasala

2. lumapit sa ng media para malamang ng madla at kumuha ng abogado para mag ayos ng kaso- medyo matrabaho, magastos at may abala sa oras mo

di biro ang binili mo kelvin, daang libo ang pinag uusapan kaya dapat makuha mo kung ano ang binayaran mo at iyon ay isang bago at maayos na sasakyan

[empy]

one more comment to add to those already posted:

rust in a 2-month old vehicle is a VERY BAD sign. something was very wrong in the way they put the vehicle together for it to already be eaten by rust. also, rust is very difficult to fix - body panels have to be replaced and what guarantee do you have that the other panels won't rapidly rust also?

i am not trying to scare you or make you feel any worse than you already must - i just want to say that if i were you, at this point i would be looking for a replacement and not just repairs.

if they don't cooperate immediately then i suggest you consult an attorney.

[woodfire]

... two words: GENE OREJANA!!! Give them some media exposure if they ignore you or give you a run-around!

BTW, for your info, there is a "Lemon Car Law" passed a couple of years back but yet to be tested in our courts!

[Walter]

If rust has formed this early, who knows how many parts are already affected by the rust, there is something wrong when the unit you got was built. The defects will keep on coming out, the older your car becomes, the dealer is just buying time until your warranty expires. It is best that you consult a lawyer now and document all the things that have gone wrong with your car, the more you delay, the harder it will be to get a replacement.

[111prez]

the relevant law here is the consumer act of the philippines (republic act no 7394, passed 13 april 1992). as far as i know the lemon law specifically directed for car manufacturers is still a senate bill (sb 1812) thus it is not law yet. be that as it may, you can find comfort in the consumer act under the following provisions:

1. in title III (PROTECTION AGAINST DECEPTIVE, UNFAIR AND
UNCONSCIONABLE SALES ACTS OR PRACTICES), chapter I (DECEPTIVE, UNFAIR AND UNCONSCIONABLE
SALES ACTS OR PRACTICES), article 50(c) says that an act or practice is deceptive if: "a consumer product is new, original or unused, when in fact, it is in a deteriorated, altered, reconditioned, reclaimed or second-hand state"

2. in chapter III (CONSUMER PRODUCT AND SERVICE WARRANTIES), article 66 (b)(4) on enforcement of express warranties provides: "(t)he warranty rights can be enforced by presentment of a claim. To this end, the purchaser needs only to present to the immediate seller either the warranty card of the official receipt along with the product to be serviced or returned to the immediate seller. No other documentary requirement shall be demanded from the purchaser. If the immediate seller is the manufacturer's factory or showroom, the warranty shall immediately be honored. If the product was purchased from a distributor, the distributor shall likewise immediately honor the warranty. In the case of a retailer other than the distributor, the former shall take responsibility without cost to the buyer of presenting the warranty claim to the distributor in the consumer's behalf."

there are other provisions in the law especially on the liability of salespersons and agents. check this out also.

[111prez]

here is the link to the news article on the lemon law senate bill:

http://www.malaya.com.ph/oct03/metro2.htm

the bill was filed only this october 2004

[kelvin]

Thank you very much to all those who replied at nagbigay ng mga information.

Akala ko mababaon na itong thread na ito at baka wala mag reply. Hindi ko kasi maaccess itong tsikot.com (sobra bagal, at di nagdidisplay ang page) gamit ang destiny cable sa bahay at ngayon ko lang nakita ang mga reply nyo. Mejo weird, dito kasi sa computer shop, gamit ang Greendot dsl, ok naman.

Nagkokonsulta ngayon ako sa mga marunong sa kotse dito sa amin kung normal itong mga problems na na-eencounter ko. Ayoko rin kasi mag submit ng formal complaint tapos ay normal lang pala ang problems na naencounter ko. Pagkabasa ko sa mga posts nyo, di pala normal ang kalawang sa new car, may problema nga ito sa pagka-assemble at pagkapintura.

Sabi kasi ng isa dito sa amin, baka daw dahil maulan last august pagkabili ko kaya nababad sa basa at na corrode agad. Wala kasing silong dun sa parking space sa bahay. Sabi nya yung mga turnilyo (malalaking bolt) daw sa likod at yung ginamit sa sabitan ng spare tire ay talagang kinakalawang. Pero sabi ko, bakit yung mga naka street parking, pag umulan babad talaga yun. At taon ang binibilang bago may lumabas na kalawang sa ibang sasakyan. At nagtataka rin ako kasi di ba dapat may sealant sa mga bolts sa ajoining surfaces pag may kinabit na metal to metal contact tulad nung lalagyan ng spare tire? Yung mga malalaking turnilyo pede ko pa matanggap na talagang kinakalawang pero yung ajoining surface ng lagayan ng spare tire na nakalapat sa back door, di dapat kakalawangin agad. Eh di malamang pumasok yun sa mismong metal surface ng backdoor.

Sana mag reply yung mga tsikoteers dito na connected sa isuzu tungkol sa issue na ito na naranasan ko. Dun naman sa mga may ari ng crosswinds, gaano po katagal bago may nadevelop na kalawang sa inyo sa mga parts na nadescribe ko?

So far ay maganda ang service na nakita ko sa sales agent at service advisor ng isuzu pasig. Pero itong issue ng replacement, tama kayo na sa sales manager dapat i-address.

Salamat po sa inyong mga insights. Contradicting opinions are also welcome.

[zechs]

*kelvin
i dont think na dahil laging nauulanan lang ang brand new car, eh prone to rust na kaagad siya. i mean itwould take some serious time to rust up.

yung car nga namin 13 years na eh wala pa akong makitang visible na kalawang so body eh.

[van_wilder]

may 5-year warranty yan... if ayaw palitan yan demanda mo... ayala ang may-are ng isuzu phils... idiretso mo kaya sa kanila baka kasi manager ang may pakana eh...

dapat yan replacement car plus incentives (cash, goods, etc...) for the damage, pwede mo kasi sila idemanda at masisira sila... tawag ka sa DTI consumer complaint at 8904932

[jkyamog]

Hi,

Just would like to ask, if you where to buy a new car. It is possible to test drive, inspect and reject the car before taking it home? Is there something like a paper you sign that you are receiving the car in good condition? Para pang bibili ka ng bagong TV, you can ask the salesman to test the unit before getting it.

Kasi I have never experienced buying a new car through normal means (e.g. buying it from a dealership). Most of the time we just buy 2nd hand cars, or we pick sa planta which car we want. Pasensiya na sa ignorant question and slightly off topic. Thanks.

[yebo]

the only thing you sign when you get your new vehicle from the dealership is a "check list", which lists things like floor mats, jack, set of tools, tail lights, fog lamps, spare tyre, HU, cigarette lighter, etc. it's just a go-around of the vehicle to see that the accessories and other stuff that should go with your purchase are all there. it is not a waiver to any of your rights since those are protected by law.

[kelvin]

van_wilder,

According to the warranty booklet, the crosswind warranty is only 2 years or 50,000 km whichever comes first. Thanks for the number of the DTI consumer complaint. I heard of stories of other dealers replacing the car because "tumirik" ng gamit na ng customer. Nagdemand yung customer kaya ganun. Yung pinalitan dahil sa rust, ang narining kong istorya ay yung sa US lang. Sa ibang readers, may narinig na po ba kayo na similar sa case ko dito sa atin?


jkyamog,

When I got my new car, I signed a vehicle sales invoice (cost of the car) and vehicle delivery report (checklist of items included with the car). Both papers have "Received vehicle and extras listed herein in good condition" under which you sign your name.

When you are about to buy a new car, don't rush it as I did. Inspect it thoroughly just like buying a second hand unit. Check everything, especially how it was built, you will notice how well it was built by the parts alignment, paint job, loose screws, signs of rust, etc. Bring a good mechanic with you to inspect the new car. I'm not sure if you can test drive the one you want to purchase. I didn't test drive mine, yes I know, it was a mistake.
If the color you want is not available, wait again, go to the plant if that is acceptable to the dealer. The friend of my brother inspected a number of new cars in the plant (different car brand) before settling on the one he bought. They clearly saw many signs of poorly assembled new cars. If you know someone in the plant, the better, ask him for his help in choosing a well built car if that is possible. I heard (I'm not sure if true) that those in the plant know the problems of the new cars (kung saan yung mga tama). At siyempre, hindi daw binibigay yung info na yun.

Sadly, I only heard about this things after I experienced the problems in my car. I should have been extremely careful. As chieffy said in one of the posts, P975k for a new car is no joke. Buy carefully.