Khaos Super Gas Saver

[ghosthunter]

Toyota Sienna 2005 6 cyl
Without khaos = 24 mpg
Withkhaos = 32 mpg

Taken from: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/Feg/noframes/21245.shtml

2005 Toyota Sienna 2WD 3.3L V6
MPG (city) 17
MPG (highway) 24

[niky]

Wait for EPA exemption certification/permit soon.

Not with a product which increases nitrous oxide emissions, as your "testing" results show. Anything that increases NOx perceptibly... especially as it's doing it even through a catalytic converter... will not pass EPA certification.

Of course... it's funny you should claim a 40% decrease in fuel consumption, when your device doesn't seem to create a 40% decrease in carbon emissions... (FYI, carbon emissions are a direct result of fuel usage... less fuel used, less carbon emissions)... whoops.

Anybody want to buy my Solid-State Organic Fuel Saving device?


Place one of these underneath your gas pedal, and I assure you you'll use less gas. If braking performance suffers, trim as required to get the best results. :hysterical:

[roberto_minosa]

Not with a product which increases nitrous oxide emissions, as your "testing" results show. Anything that increases NOx perceptibly... especially as it's doing it even through a catalytic converter... will not pass EPA certification.

Of course... it's funny you should claim a 40% decrease in fuel consumption, when your device doesn't seem to create a 40% decrease in carbon emissions... (FYI, carbon emissions are a direct result of fuel usage... less fuel used, less carbon emissions)... whoops.

Anybody want to buy my Solid-State Organic Fuel Saving device?


Place one of these underneath your gas pedal, and I assure you you'll use less gas. If braking performance suffers, trim as required to get the best results. :hysterical:

Tree-huggers would not approve.

:rofl01:

[meledson]

Not with a product which increases nitrous oxide emissions, as your "testing" results show. Anything that increases NOx perceptibly... especially as it's doing it even through a catalytic converter... will not pass EPA certification.

Of course... it's funny you should claim a 40% decrease in fuel consumption, when your device doesn't seem to create a 40% decrease in carbon emissions... (FYI, carbon emissions are a direct result of fuel usage... less fuel used, less carbon emissions)... whoops.

Anybody want to buy my Solid-State Organic Fuel Saving device?


Place one of these underneath your gas pedal, and I assure you you'll use less gas. If braking performance suffers, trim as required to get the best results. :hysterical:

My wife will kill me if I use this gas saving device on our altis. It is her daily ride.

[niky]

Tree huggers will love it. Sacrifice one tree to save thousands.

Wifey? Solution? Get her an Alto. Full-throttle all day long, and it still gets 15-17 km/l in traffic.

[ghosthunter]

Tree huggers will love it. Sacrifice one tree to save thousands.

Wifey? Solution? Get her an Alto. Full-throttle all day long, and it still gets 15-17 km/l in traffic.

The Wifey solution might be the Celerio. It's so peppy and manueverable even with it's small 1.0L engine, you guys might want some time behind the wheel.

[niky]

The Wifey solution might be the Celerio. It's so peppy and manueverable even with it's small 1.0L engine, you guys might want some time behind the wheel.

Ah... but a flogged Celerio is fast enough to kill you. An 800cc Alto driven to its absolute limits won't be going faster than 80 km/h. The wifey will be scared witless even before she reaches 1/10th of the Alto's ability... it'll be creaking, rattling and rolling onto its door handles waaaaay before the tires give out...

[meledson]

Tree huggers will love it. Sacrifice one tree to save thousands.

Wifey? Solution? Get her an Alto. Full-throttle all day long, and it still gets 15-17 km/l in traffic.

The Wifey solution might be the Celerio. It's so peppy and manueverable even with it's small 1.0L engine, you guys might want some time behind the wheel.

Ah... but a flogged Celerio is fast enough to kill you. An 800cc Alto driven to its absolute limits won't be going faster than 80 km/h. The wifey will be scared witless even before she reaches 1/10th of the Alto's ability... it'll be creaking, rattling and rolling onto its door handles waaaaay before the tires give out...

I think we get more than 12 Km+ per liter in our A/T 2001 Altis. Her normal speed is at least 120Kph. She even drives the 1.3 avanza at 140Kph.

I have even proven to her that i can limit my speed of 80Kph in an expressway almost end to end. She did not believe it was even possible using the altis.

She drives less than half of my daily drive and she has more gasoline allowance than I.

I was telling her that i will install a rev limiter. that will limit her to 3,000 rpm. :D

IMO, we can get better milage if we limit our speed and revs than using a questionable gadget. We do not have to spend in order to save.

[roberto_minosa]

Our Innova has a parentally-limited speed of 90km/h. It's quite distracting, making loud noises whenever the car exceeds 100km/h. That device doesn't make the car any more fuel efficient.

[meledson]

Our Innova has a parentally-limited speed of 90km/h. It's quite distracting, making loud noises whenever the car exceeds 100km/h. That device doesn't make the car any more fuel efficient.

I think it even decreases fuel economy because it has weight. hehehehehe

:rofl:

[niky]

The Unichip can implement a "valet" or "teenager" mode that will limit your car's power... but buying a 30,000 peso Unichip to save gas isn't an economical solution. :hysterical: ...but it will actually work better than any universal off-the-shelf vacuum-leak-in-a-can.

[roberto_minosa]

Don't people buy the Unichip to...go faster? It's surprising that it could also have an "eco-mode".

[niky]

Don't people buy the Unichip to...go faster? It's surprising that it could also have an "eco-mode".

It all depends on how much time and money you have and what you want out of the installation.

It can do fifth injector control, larger injector mapping, clamp your O2 sensors so that you can run more power or gain more economy in "open loop" mode, that emissions-friendly mode at part-throttle where the car uses the O2 sensors to ensure that the catalytic converter is getting exactly the right mix for proper function... you can have it adjust itself for engine temperature or atmospheric... or just about anything you have sensors for...

***breathes in***

It also allows you to substitute your MAF sensor for a MAP sensor... which means you can put those nifty motorbike-style individual throttle-bodies on your EFI engine... (dual Weber style... yo!).... It can also change the rev-limiter (though raising requires an add-on module), implement launch control or even a form of traction control (use an ABS or wheel-speed sensor and link it to the launch control function)...

It can run boost control... CO2 spray... a full extra bank of injectors... progressive nitrous control... and water injection... all at the same time.

See... the Unichip has several different mapping grids... each with a boatload of options for input and output parameters... after the air-fuel adjustments, timing adjustments and throttle-position adjustments. You could conceivably use it as a standalone box if you're smart enough to figure out how to wire it in properly...

Of course... if you ask Ferman at Speedlab to implement all of that, you will owe him a liver, a kidney and your soul. The 30k Speedlab charges covers the basic mapping. All of those extra functions will cost extra. You could always have the base map set as an economy map... but where's the fun in that? Someday, though, I think Speedlab may have to show this function off at an eco-run... ;)

-

Oh... and it allows you to run up to five different maps. I'm currently using three. One for power. One for cold weather (if I hook up the thermostat, I won't need to separate the two maps... but I'm lazy and I'm cheap... I'm saving up for this). One for economy.

Tuason Racing uses four for their TDCis. One mode for standard power. One for extra power. One for lots of extra power. And one for students. The one for students makes the TDCi feel like it's a 1.6 instead of a 2.0.

[khaos]

Actual on-the-road test is what we usually do, it just takes time and we are worried about the time you can spend on this Actual Test.

Since you mention that, please be informed that we are ready for an "Actual On-The-Road Test with all of you and we can agree on all the details (i.e.; cars, location, date & time). Our Invitation doesn't intend to have a self-serving result, "what we would like is to satisfy you and prove if Khaos can really damage engine and doesn't work as Anti-Pollution and Gas Saving device.

We'll just invite the presence of media people to make sure that everything will be properly documented.

We can even invite presence of any Engine Authority to set rules and regulations on this Actual Test and document it as well. We'll not decide who to invite, it will depend on our agreement.

[niky]

Simple.

It must be 2009 year-model car with EFI and a catalytic converter.

No other modifications but the Khaos.

Testing regimen will have the car locked at 3000 rpm on the dyno for 5 minutes at exactly 1/4th throttle. This ensures that the load stays constant and that there's no cheating. Pedal position will be controlled with a block of wood tied to the gas pedal.

Back-to-back-to-back tests. Best of three. Fuel container will be a graduated cylinder attached to the hood of the vehicle. Fuel return line will be blocked off to ensure that all that leaves the cylinder is going into the combustion chamber.

Khaos technicians will not be allowed to touch the car beforehand or after, or to remove or alter any of the engine sensors in any way. Neutral mechanics will install it in the line. If you feel like paying for more tests, we can also do a control test where the PCV is fully disconnected (breather on valve cover, cap on intake tube) and one where we add a simple breather cap to the intake tube, also. And the car will receive an oil change and new spark plugs right before the baseline test without the Khaos.

The car will be driven for an hour before each test for the O2 sensors to adjust to the change in mixture... either an hour or until the long term fuel trims stabilize. We may need to schedule several trips over the course of a week. We will also connect an OBDII reader, by the way, to gauge how the engine is reacting to the device. If the fuel trims never stabilize when the Khaos is attached, then the test is an immediate fail, because that means the device is making it impossible for the engine to function properly, and may lead to ECU or sensor damage due to an increasing-feedback loop (by the bye, this is why Lynx and Lancer MAFs die when the Khaos is attached).

Engine temperature will also be measured via the oil. If the Khaos increases oil temperature during the test or at idle, it's also an automatic fail, as this can lead to engine damage in the long term.

Oh... and we'll attach an exhaust gas analyzer. (though I'm still looking for one with an NOx readout). If any of the emissions increase with the Khaos, then it's a conditional fail... depending on how close to the emissions limit it gets. Yeah, yeah... we don't test for NOx in the Philippines.

Fair enough?

Oh. And what is the minimum fuel economy gain on the dyno necessary before we can call this a win for the Khaos? Will you settle for 10%? Or should we hold you to a 20% gain to make it worth our money?

[ghosthunter]

This discussion has been going since 2003 and the gadget existed way before even before that, there is NO CONCLUSIVE PROOF that KSTC works as claimed.

Even the test (in Taiwan) done by Khaos peeps to prove KSTC is a big FAIL to prove anything other than the test was done. It even notes that the vehicle used for the test have emissions that are HIGHER than what would be legal in the Philippines.

[niky]

This discussion has been going since 2003 and the gadget existed way before even before that, there is NO CONCLUSIVE PROOF that KSTC works as claimed.

Even the test (in Taiwan) done by Khaos peeps to prove KSTC is a big FAIL to prove anything other than the test was done. It even notes that the vehicle used for the test have emissions that are HIGHER than what would be legal in the Philippines.

Hey... we're trying to get conclusive proof.

So... what do you say? best of three, on the dyno. EFI car. (I'm sure Honda would be happy to provide, say, a Honda Jazz 1.3 MT for the test).

It'll be fun. I'll bring the popcorn.

[vernieg]

I believed this khaos or any air bleed setup is not for cars with oxygen sensors at the exhaust , lalong di ka makapagsave sa fuel nito. Oxygen sensors is used to decide the amount of fuel to spray.

On engines with carburetors (walang oxygen sensor-mechanical ang fuel-air metering), an air bleed will help reduce suction of fuel specially during deceleration or when you release your foot from the accelerator pedal. An air bleed like khaos is not for all type cars and if want to apply a similar setup on cars without oxygen sensors, a "T" connector, vacuum hose with a regulator or variable valve will do the same thing and you don't have to spend more than 50 pesos for it.

Those who will buy khaos for EFI with oxygen sensors and place this khaos on the vacuum line do not really know what they are doing. Most people do not know how their car system works and some sales agents do not really know what they are selling. Kung mangyari ang di dapat mangyari, the word scam will come out.

[niky]

Even for carbs, there is little need for a vacuum bleed device. An even better way to tune for better economy is through cleaning and rejetting the carburetor.

In fact... if you want safe leaning out of the fuel charge, a makeshift EGR device would be better than an air-bleed... as the air it sends to the carburetor will be naturally low in oxygen, helping to cool combustion while allowing you to run leaner while it is open.

Moot point, though. There are only a handful of carbureted vehicles sold as brand new in the Philippines within the past ten years (the only 1999 models that had carbs, if I recall correctly, were the Sentra FE and AD Resort, as well as the Corolla "taxi specials"... may have been more, but I'm not familiar with them).

[ghosthunter]

Moot point, though. There are only a handful of carbureted vehicles sold as brand new in the Philippines within the past ten years (the only 1999 models that had carbs, if I recall correctly, were the Sentra FE and AD Resort, as well as the Corolla "taxi specials"... may have been more, but I'm not familiar with them).

Maybe we can see what the 5th Generation "The New Improved" Khaos which is more suitable to Highly Sophisticated Computerized Engines can do for "modern" EFI engines. :moon::moon::moon:

But as usual, I am not holding my breath :tounge2: nor loosing any sleep :sleep2: waiting for a reply on this.