Auto-LPG Conversion Thread

[ghosthunter]

Now my trip meter reads 398.7km and the digital guage still reads 30%! I haven't changed my route to and from work, no long distance trips and same driving habits.

It depends on your LPG tank size. I assume you got the 60L tank. So given that, you should see an increase in maximum range per tank of LPG vs gasoline.

[smdelfin]

INQ7.net, GMA7
Last updated 01:14pm (Mla time) 10/30/2006
PRICES of Liquefied Petroleum Gas will be rolled back by 0.50 per kilo effective midnight Tuesday, according to a “Flash Report” on GMA Network, quoting a group of LPG dealers.
The report said the decision by the LPG Marketers Association to reduce prices was the fourth for this month.
The continuing rollback in LPG prices was due to the lowering of the cost of crude in the world market, the report said.

[ghosthunter]

INQ7.net, GMA7
Last updated 01:14pm (Mla time) 10/30/2006
PRICES of Liquefied Petroleum Gas will be rolled back by 0.50 per kilo effective midnight Tuesday, according to a “Flash Report” on GMA Network, quoting a group of LPG dealers.
The report said the decision by the LPG Marketers Association to reduce prices was the fourth for this month.
The continuing rollback in LPG prices was due to the lowering of the cost of crude in the world market, the report said.

That should translate to roughly P0.28/L rollback of automotive LPG prices.

LPG = 1.75 L/Kg

[maya]

hey pips (especially ghosthunter)

i'm doing a presentation on thursday in vietnam re: air quality management policies in Asia and I would like to highlight that despite no actual policy or legal framework for compulsary conversion to LPG, the Philippines has seen lately a substantial fleet converting to LPG.

from the viewpoint of air pollution, LPG is better than gasoline. less emissions..

i need to be hooked to people who can provide me numbers (at least an approximate number) of how many taxis have converted.. how many private vehicle? in say the past few months.

what are issues that arise due to this lack of policy?

• i'm thinking safety issues - no framework or guidelines that govern companies doing the conversions.
• no incentives (aside from savings) for converting to LPG. in some countries, car owners can be provided subsidies or loans to convert.
• currently LPG prices in retail stations are considerably cheap because tax (I think) for LPG is still lower because it is considered as more a residential sector use than commercial auto use. there needs to be assurance from government that at least in the next few years, they will still keep LPG tax structure as it is now.
• from my viewpoint, the government should look into drafting a policy on auto LPG use to safeguard the interest of the public.

anything else? what do you think?
if you have thoughts on this please email me or YM me mayajero*yahoo.com

thanks.

Maya

[ghosthunter]

hey pips (especially ghosthunter)

i'm doing a presentation on thursday in vietnam re: air quality management policies in Asia and I would like to highlight that despite no actual policy or legal framework for compulsary conversion to LPG, the Philippines has seen lately a substantial fleet converting to LPG.

It is substantial but only in metro manila and metro cebu. The problem is getting more auto-LPG refilling stations setup.

from the viewpoint of air pollution, LPG is better than gasoline. less emissions..

It depends. LPG is just a fuel, it still depends on the condition of the engine if it results in lower or higher emissions.

i need to be hooked to people who can provide me numbers (at least an approximate number) of how many taxis have converted.. how many private vehicle? in say the past few months.

Difficult to say without the direct help of the LPG kit installers like NAIADSS and MACRO, then comparing those numbers against the total number of taxi cabs registered in metro manila.

what are issues that arise due to this lack of policy?
[*]i'm thinking safety issues - no framework or guidelines that govern companies doing the conversions.

This one is very true. I talked to one auto-LPG refilling station owner. He admits that there is no regulation in place as of now. He just hopes that all current owners & operators of LPG installers & auto-LPG refilling stations do their best to minimize accidents and other negative events.

[*]no incentives (aside from savings) for converting to LPG. in some countries, car owners can be provided subsidies or loans to convert.

Unfortunately, current auto-LPG kit installers aren't recognized yet by banks as compared to car dealers, etc. With possible future development of auto-LPG, that might be possible.

[*]currently LPG prices in retail stations are considerably cheap because tax (I think) for LPG is still lower because it is considered as more a residential sector use than commercial auto use. there needs to be assurance from government that at least in the next few years, they will still keep LPG tax structure as it is now.

A problem of political will and planning. Our government is never been good with long term planning, its always short to medium term simply because when the president is changed, usually the projects of the previous president gets abandoned.

[*]from my viewpoint, the government should look into drafting a policy on auto LPG use to safeguard the interest of the public.

I do think its the proper time to implement such.

[Macho]

Let's go for LPG...YES!

[maya]

hi ghosthunter.

thanks for the quick reply. I have done some calling also last night after I posted my message.
here's what i found out:

1. the Bureau of Product Standards has already prepared a standard to regulate the quality of LPG as autofuel.
2. This however still does not cover the quality of the conversion kits
3. last year there were only about 108 converted taxis as of Sept 2005 compared to an estimated 5,000 as of July 2006 (SMS of Len B to a friend)
4. LTFRB has plans to provide an incentive of longer terms for their franchise if they convert to LPG.

now, in response to your replies.
1. you are correct. condition of a vehicle still plays a lot of role when it comes to emissions. (which is why we have been pushing for an MVIS in DOTC and an Inspection and Maintenance (I and M) here).. anyway, but given two vehicles or engines of same type and condition, LPG produces lower emissions of air pollutants (particulates, CO and HC).. except for NOx I think.

2. in all other points, i am in full agreement.

It struck me that maybe it would be good to compare the "achievements" in the LPG sector vs CNG. The CNG sector had a lot of investments and planning etc involved but nothing much has happened until now. The plans remained plans.

you have pictures of LPG-converted cars in the country? I would appreciate receiving them. With your permission, I'd like to use them in my presentation. Thanks.
May

[userfriendly]

Just spoke with the Green Autogas, they said that the traditional type of lpg kit which uses the venturi principle has risk of backfire. They said they do not recommend using this type of system. According to them, there is about 5% chance of getting a backfire and it may damage the airfilter housing. Is this true? LPG users, feedback please.

They were recommending the sequential type which according to them has zero risk of backfire and no power loss. Catch is it will take 3 days to install and they will drill holes in the manifold for the injectors. They further said that if I decide to remove the kit in the future, the holes can be welded or repaired by a machine shop.

If I convert, it will take about a year to recover the cost of the traditional kit. For the sequential type, about 2.5 years. Is it worth to convert? And if so which is the better deal?

[ghosthunter]

Just spoke with the Green Autogas, they said that the traditional type of lpg kit which uses the venturi principle has risk of backfire. They said they do not recommend using this type of system. According to them, there is about 5% chance of getting a backfire and it may damage the airfilter housing. Is this true? LPG users, feedback please.

They were recommending the sequential type which according to them has zero risk of backfire and no power loss. Catch is it will take 3 days to install and they will drill holes in the manifold for the injectors. They further said that if I decide to remove the kit in the future, the holes can be welded or repaired by a machine shop.

If I convert, it will take about a year to recover the cost of the traditional kit. For the sequential type, about 2.5 years. Is it worth to convert? And if so which is the better deal?

In a typical modern engine, the chance of a backfire is pretty remote UNLESS you are playing with the adjustments for the engine's ignition timing or valve cams.

Major advantages of a sequential type LPG kit are:
-no loss of engine power (due to the venturi pipe)
-less sensitive to air filter condition
-more efficient than venturi type

Disadvantage:
-costs at least twice more than venturi type
-drills holes into the engine intake manifold (for the injectors)

IMHO, the decision to get either type depends on your reasons why you are getting a LPG kit in the first place. You want to save money. Next thing to consider is how long do you plan to keep the car. If you plan to keep the car for the next four years or more, you could get the sequential. If the car is rather getting old, then the traditional venturi type LPG kit would be the realistic choice.

[ghosthunter]

hi ghosthunter.
It struck me that maybe it would be good to compare the "achievements" in the LPG sector vs CNG. The CNG sector had a lot of investments and planning etc involved but nothing much has happened until now. The plans remained plans.

one major stumbling block in CNG is it's limited market. Only busses will be able to use CNG as fuel. Another problem is where can you refuel on CNG? I think there is only ONE CNG refuelling station.

you have pictures of LPG-converted cars in the country? I would appreciate receiving them. With your permission, I'd like to use them in my presentation.
May

There are some pictures of LPG equipped cars in this thread. You can use those. Note that most of the pictures here are focused on the LPG tank and conversion parts.

You could also visit an auto-LPG refilling station and take pictures of cars getting their LPG tanks refilled.

If you need a better picture of my car, I could take a few pictures and upload it for you.

[ghosthunter]

Petron auto-LPG P23.95/L (along Shaw * WackWack)

[tylerdude]

i have a benz 190e and im thinking of converting it to lpg. would it just cost me around 30k? someone quoted mo for 60k which i think is just too expensive. or is just right because it's 2.3 liters?

[jvm13]

i have a benz 190e and im thinking of converting it to lpg. would it just cost me around 30k? someone quoted mo for 60k which i think is just too expensive. or is just right because it's 2.3 liters?

saan ka nagpa quote? sa ambient kasi nasa 60k rin pero reason nila is dahil fuel injected and gagamit sila ng computerized system ng lpg para walang loss of power as well as increase of consumption..

[afg598]

It depends on your LPG tank size. I assume you got the 60L tank. So given that, you should see an increase in maximum range per tank of LPG vs gasoline.

Yup. got the 60L tank. Now the trip meter reads 440km. Thanks.

[afg598]

if you ran on LPG on stock ignition timing, it would be like running on gasoline with your timing retarded which results in less power and lower engine efficiency. In theory, you should have a percentage gain in fuel economy.

The reason why you need to advance your timing is because the flame front of LPG is slower than gasoline. So LPG needs to be ignited earlier than gasoline.

What's your car and how many degrees did you advance it? How many percent increase better consumption did you get after?

[ghosthunter]

i have a benz 190e and im thinking of converting it to lpg. would it just cost me around 30k? someone quoted mo for 60k which i think is just too expensive. or is just right because it's 2.3 liters?

The quote for 60K is probably for the sequential type of LPG kit. It should cost you around 30K for a typical venturi type kit.

[ghosthunter]

What's your car and how many degrees did you advance it? How many percent increase better consumption did you get after?

my car is a 99 corolla gli 1.6L ... the ignition timing is set at 15 degrees (with ecu at default). The ecu adjusts timing to 20 degrees when on LPG and 10 degree when on gasoline.

Personally I didn't see any difference simply because my engine can adjust it's ignition timing.

[afg598]

my car is a 99 corolla gli 1.6L ... the ignition timing is set at 15 degrees (with ecu at default). The ecu adjusts timing to 20 degrees when on LPG and 10 degree when on gasoline.

Personally I didn't see any difference simply because my engine can adjust it's ignition timing.

I'll just use it as is first, get average readings, then tweak it and see if it has F/C effect. Thanks.

[afg598]

Petron Buendia Auto-LPG = P23.94

[afg598]

Has anyone tried converting an I-DSI engine to LPG? Do you have to advance the timing also or would the engine adjust automatically depending on what fuel you are using? How about VTEC or VVTi engine?