850k-1M Budget - Your Opinions?

[dr. d]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

after several decades "making the rounds" of "affordable vehicle marquees"...
i now have three toyotas in my garage.

like the writer wrote.. it may not be the hottest item in every category, but overall, it tops 'em in the averages..
my opinion..

[StockEngine]

new ford focus is almost here... not sure about their time and yours though

[Yuki13]

OT: jut, are you getting rid of the vios?

[dr. d]

OT: jut, are you getting rid of the vios?

pilako dyan! errr... anong EP?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

OT: jut, are you getting rid of the vios?

pilako dyan! errr... anong EP?

[StockEngine]

your thoughts on this ..

2015 Hyundai Tucson Manual Metro Manila - Brand New Want To Buy Philippines - 72862461

[jut703]

new ford focus is almost here... not sure about their time and yours though

Need the car by this month, June at the latest. The 1.0 Ecoboost Focus won't be available anytime soon.

OT: jut, are you getting rid of the vios?

Yup. That was just a temporary car for me.

your thoughts on this ..

2015 Hyundai Tucson Manual Metro Manila - Brand New Want To Buy Philippines - 72862461

Pretty nice deal, but I need to get my car from the casa.

[_Cathy_]

Wow jut! Nice company you're working for

[jut703]

I went to the Mazda dealership today, and the Mz3's interior was really a league above the Altis'. However, the 1.5 is just too slow. And I just can't live with that digital tach.

The 2.0 is really the perfect compact for me, but at 1.2M it's 350k more than the Altis. 350k can buy me a secondhand SUV. Or a trip abroad plus lots of gadgets. Or lots of investments.

And besides, to the lay man, the Mz3 doesn't look 350k more than the Altis G. For me, the Mz3 2.0 wins on all fronts except value-for-money. Maybe I'll get one in the secondhand market in 5 years to take advantage of Mazda's poor resale value.

[jut703]

I also looked at the Navara, and it's quite a convincing truck. Looks very car-like and roomy inside. But ultimately I don't think a it's worth it to get another pickup for me, especially as it'll be almost 200k above my original budget.

[beeftapa]

Since you were considering lancer gta, how about asx gls? If you can get a good discount, it is just slightly above 1 M.

[jhnkvn]

I went to the Mazda dealership today, and the Mz3's interior was really a league above the Altis'. However, the 1.5 is just too slow. And I just can't live with that digital tach.

The 2.0 is really the perfect compact for me, but at 1.2M it's 350k more than the Altis. 350k can buy me a secondhand SUV. Or a trip abroad plus lots of gadgets. Or lots of investments.

And besides, to the lay man, the Mz3 doesn't look 350k more than the Altis G. For me, the Mz3 2.0 wins on all fronts except value-for-money. Maybe I'll get one in the secondhand market in 5 years to take advantage of Mazda's poor resale value.

Just why not go for secondhand Mazda3, jut?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I went to the Mazda dealership today, and the Mz3's interior was really a league above the Altis'. However, the 1.5 is just too slow. And I just can't live with that digital tach.

The 2.0 is really the perfect compact for me, but at 1.2M it's 350k more than the Altis. 350k can buy me a secondhand SUV. Or a trip abroad plus lots of gadgets. Or lots of investments.

And besides, to the lay man, the Mz3 doesn't look 350k more than the Altis G. For me, the Mz3 2.0 wins on all fronts except value-for-money. Maybe I'll get one in the secondhand market in 5 years to take advantage of Mazda's poor resale value.

Just why not go for secondhand Mazda3, jut?

[niky]

Thanks doc, I have a copy of that issue as well. The Altis performed really well even against the 2-liter compacts. Take note that it was a CVT featured here. The MT would definitely score better in terms of performance.

Attachment 26550

Acceleration times were taken without a hard launch (i.e. from idle) and with 2 passengers. The Focus is the quickest with its DCT of course. More importantly though, the 1.6 Altis is faster than the Mz3 and Civic 2.0, and just a hair slower than the 2.0. This was my basis for saying that an MT 1.6 can go toe-to-toe with the 2-liter compacts.

Attachment 26551

As expected, the Mz3 and Focus are quickest on a track, but the 1 sec gap isn't so bad, and possiby something you can make up with a stick shift.

Attachment 26552

They didn't provide the info on how the FC was computed, so I'm not very sold on this, but it's promising. The MT might get worse highway mileage, but then again FC isn't a deal-breaker.

Attachment 26553

Perhaps because it's the lightest, the Altis 1.6 outbrakes all other compacts. The V though has 4-wheel disc brakes. The G MT probably won't be as good because of its rear drums, but still decent since it's about 50 kg lighter than the CVT.

The Corolla's "soft" settings help it get good braking. It's a combination of a suspension that allows just enough brake dive to put more weight on the front tires and tires with enough sidewall flex to put more rubber down under braking. Over the past few years of Car of the Year testing, I've found the Corolla's brakes to be excellent.

-

Those 0-100 times are likely due to the "soft" launch. The Corolla 2.0 and Focus 2.0 can do 0-100 in about nine seconds plus.

-

Fuel economy figures are weird... and probably non-comparable. While the Focus can conceivably do 20 km/l on the highway, my experience suggests the Sylphy should top it... unless they're running them all at 100 km/h, and then it'll be a matter of who's got the best gearing and power at that point.


I take issue with the absolute braking numbers, as well. A Corolla can brake (given ideal conditions) from 100 km/h in about 35 meters.

At 24 meters, that's going from 100 to 0 km/h in five meters less than a McLaren P1, which comes on road-legal R-Compound tires.

Completely impossible on standard road rubber.

-

Did they say in the test what performance measuring device they were using? If those times are what they really recorded, then it wasn't a very good one.

-

If you're looking for something that will hit 100 for sure in under 10 seconds under a million pesos, there's only one car: The Hyundai Accent 1.5 MT diesel. Although to get that ten second time, you need to launch in second gear.

For gasoline cars, you're looking at maybe a Fiesta EcoBoost (though it's a bit soft off the line) or possibly an MT Elantra... the Corolla has always been a light car, so the 1.6 might get there under 11 seconds...but I wouldn't put stock in Youtube videos... stock speedometers are way off.

[Walter]

If only you can wait for the Mazda3 manual transmission variant. When the sales dip, they will bring it in. Oh, how about the new Mazda 2 MT?

[jut703]

Since you were considering lancer gta, how about asx gls? If you can get a good discount, it is just slightly above 1 M.

ASX GLS is 1.149M, I was offered a 90k discount so it's still 1.060M, which is 200k above my budget. Not a big fan of the ASX - I've taken it out of town and it was just a so-so SUV, so I don't see the additional 200k as worth it.

Just why not go for secondhand Mazda3, jut?

Secondhand isn't an option for me as my car plan benefit requires the vehicle to be brand new. I'd have wanted a 2011 Mz6 if used cars were allowed...

[ano727]

Saw a C! comparo the other day where the Corolla 1.6V was 4th the other day in acceleration tests, beating out a Civic 2.0, Elantra 1.6, Sylphy 1.8 but losing to the Mazda3 2.0, Altis 2.0, Focus 2.0.

The comparo would have been better if they included the Lancer EX 1.6 and GTA 2.0. Just for comparison and benchmarking.

[jut703]

The Corolla's "soft" settings help it get good braking. It's a combination of a suspension that allows just enough brake dive to put more weight on the front tires and tires with enough sidewall flex to put more rubber down under braking. Over the past few years of Car of the Year testing, I've found the Corolla's brakes to be excellent.

I've gone from 160-0 on our old 2.0V Altis in an emergency braking situation and since then I've always found the brakes of the Altis to be sufficient. Not sure about the disc/drum combo of the G, but it shouldn't be that far off.

Fuel economy figures are weird... and probably non-comparable. While the Focus can conceivably do 20 km/l on the highway, my experience suggests the Sylphy should top it... unless they're running them all at 100 km/h, and then it'll be a matter of who's got the best gearing and power at that point.

I take issue with the absolute braking numbers, as well. A Corolla can brake (given ideal conditions) from 100 km/h in about 35 meters.

At 24 meters, that's going from 100 to 0 km/h in five meters less than a McLaren P1, which comes on road-legal R-Compound tires.

Completely impossible on standard road rubber.

Did they say in the test what performance measuring device they were using? If those times are what they really recorded, then it wasn't a very good one.

They didn't provide specifics on the braking and FC figures, which is why I take them with a grain of salt too. They only described the methodology of the acceleration tests. I'd assume they used a Vbox as that's what C! was doing even during the time of Deakin, can't imagine them not using it anymore.

If you're looking for something that will hit 100 for sure in under 10 seconds under a million pesos, there's only one car: The Hyundai Accent 1.5 MT diesel. Although to get that ten second time, you need to launch in second gear.

For gasoline cars, you're looking at maybe a Fiesta EcoBoost (though it's a bit soft off the line) or possibly an MT Elantra... the Corolla has always been a light car, so the 1.6 might get there under 11 seconds...but I wouldn't put stock in Youtube videos... stock speedometers are way off.

If you mean the 1.6 Accent CRDi (as the 1.5's phased out), I have to agree that it's a great motor. But that's about it. Interior's ugly and the exterior screams med-rep car, so it fails my first criteria of a relatively respectable image. Not a fan of the suspension that bottoms out easily either.

The EcoBoost is again another great motor (for me, the best one under 1M), and also the best handling subcompact by far. But again, it's an expensive subcompact that looks more apt with a college freshman. Sure, Clarkson squeezed 3 army guys, but it was definitely a tight affair.

I didn't think the Elantra 1.6 was a quick car. I've driven the 1.8 and that didn't feel anything close to the FD's R18. You reckon that a manual 1.6 Elantra's quicker than the Altis 1.6 MT? It's about 30 kg heavier than the Altis, and reaches peak power and torque later. Possible though that the Elantra's 6MT has better gearing than the Altis' 6MT, but I've yet to try the MT Elantra.

I don't use YouTube vids as absolute truths, although comparing 1 vid to another (i.e. 2 comparisons based on speedometers that are off by roughly the same percentage anyway) helps a bit in getting a general idea of the car's performance. If the C! comparo is of any worth though, then it seems to validate the notion that the 1.6 Altis is a pretty peppy car.

[jut703]

If only you can wait for the Mazda3 manual transmission variant. When the sales dip, they will bring it in. Oh, how about the new Mazda 2 MT?

I asked 3 different dealerships and they all said that there won't be a manual Mz3. For the past 10 years, they haven't launched a manual Mz3, and I don't think they'll launch one anytime soon.

The Mz2 isn't gonna be launched until July, and the car is so damn tiny, with space comparable only to a Wigo. The MT will most likely be a base model at around 700k. As much as possible I'd like to maximize my limit of 850k, so the range I'm looking at is around 850-950k.

[niky]

I've gone from 160-0 on our old 2.0V Altis in an emergency braking situation and since then I've always found the brakes of the Altis to be sufficient. Not sure about the disc/drum combo of the G, but it shouldn't be that far off.


They didn't provide specifics on the braking and FC figures, which is why I take them with a grain of salt too. They only described the methodology of the acceleration tests. I'd assume they used a Vbox as that's what C! was doing even during the time of Deakin, can't imagine them not using it anymore.



If you mean the 1.6 Accent CRDi (as the 1.5's phased out), I have to agree that it's a great motor. But that's about it. Interior's ugly and the exterior screams med-rep car, so it fails my first criteria of a relatively respectable image. Not a fan of the suspension that bottoms out easily either.

The EcoBoost is again another great motor (for me, the best one under 1M), and also the best handling subcompact by far. But again, it's an expensive subcompact that looks more apt with a college freshman. Sure, Clarkson squeezed 3 army guys, but it was definitely a tight affair.

I didn't think the Elantra 1.6 was a quick car. I've driven the 1.8 and that didn't feel anything close to the FD's R18. You reckon that a manual 1.6 Elantra's quicker than the Altis 1.6 MT? It's about 30 kg heavier than the Altis, and reaches peak power and torque later. Possible though that the Elantra's 6MT has better gearing than the Altis' 6MT, but I've yet to try the MT Elantra.

I don't use YouTube vids as absolute truths, although comparing 1 vid to another (i.e. 2 comparisons based on speedometers that are off by roughly the same percentage anyway) helps a bit in getting a general idea of the car's performance. If the C! comparo is of any worth though, then it seems to validate the notion that the 1.6 Altis is a pretty peppy car.

I've driven against older Altises on track... and they are surprisingly quick. Good chassis, good engine... rubbish steering, but steering feel doesn't make lap times. The new Altis seems a bit heavier.

-

The Elantra 1.6 MT was pretty decent, last I drove it... what model did they have for the comparo?

Looking at my files:

Elantra 1.6 AT: 11.6 0-100
Elantra 1.6 MT: 11.2 0-100...

These figures are done with an optimum launch, but with 2 people on board. So if it's just solo, I wager about 10.7 for the MT.

I wasn't the stats keeper when we last had a Corolla 1.6 MT at COTY. We last had a Corolla 1.6 CVT two years ago, though... and that did 100 in 12.6 seconds... pretty slow... so I doubt the new Corolla 1.6 will be anywhere near 10 seconds. (It's a heavier car now).

Shame about the Civics... the FD was damn quick with the R18 and a manual tranny... but the new ones are... slow. Off-the-line, the new transmissions lag, and power delivery feels so soft...

-

Looking at the figures, there's no way those are V-Box figures for braking... it's possible they're using some sort of mobile app or an accelerometer-based tester... and those can easily miss the start of the deceleration period.

Most high-performance road cars can only brake from 100 km/h in about 35-36 meters. That's about as good as it gets with high performance street rubber. Our best braking tests at COTY were at Clark, where the braking zones were well rubbered in.

To get less than 35-36 meters, you will need warm (high performance) tires and brakes that haven't been heated up yet... do one hard braking too many and braking distances tend to increase by two or three meters... or more.

[jut703]

I've driven against older Altises on track... and they are surprisingly quick. Good chassis, good engine... rubbish steering, but steering feel doesn't make lap times. The new Altis seems a bit heavier.

The new Altis is about 40 kg heavier than the old one, although the pre-facelifted older Altises didn't have the more powerful 1ZR Dual VVTi engine.

I have the same observations as you on the Altis. Steering sucks big time, but the chassis takes corners quite solidly for what's supposed to be a Camry-lite.

The Elantra 1.6 MT was pretty decent, last I drove it... what model did they have for the comparo?

Looking at my files:

Elantra 1.6 AT: 11.6 0-100
Elantra 1.6 MT: 11.2 0-100...

These figures are done with an optimum launch, but with 2 people on board. So if it's just solo, I wager about 10.7 for the MT.

They used a 1.6 AT for the comparo. 11.85 seems to be pretty close to your time even if it wasn't a hard launch.

I wasn't the stats keeper when we last had a Corolla 1.6 MT at COTY. We last had a Corolla 1.6 CVT two years ago, though... and that did 100 in 12.6 seconds... pretty slow... so I doubt the new Corolla 1.6 will be anywhere near 10 seconds. (It's a heavier car now).

2 years ago, the 1.6 Corollas didn't come with CVTs. Only the TOTL facelifted Altis got the CVT paired with the 3ZR engine. The facelifted 1.6s got the new 1ZR, but still retained the old 4AT. I hated that 4AT. We had it in our pre-facelift 2.0 Altis and it was the slowest AT I've ever thrashed (okay, not as bad as Toyota's 90s slushboxes, but not acceptable in the 21st century).

That could explain the 12-second 0-100 time.

Shame about the Civics... the FD was damn quick with the R18 and a manual tranny... but the new ones are... slow. Off-the-line, the new transmissions lag, and power delivery feels so soft...

The FD was a wonderful car to toss around Tanay back then. The MT shifter was so precise, and the FD's steering and body were so responsive. A secondhand FD Civic is a really great buy if you ask me, too bad I can't go pre-owned.

Looking at the figures, there's no way those are V-Box figures for braking... it's possible they're using some sort of mobile app or an accelerometer-based tester... and those can easily miss the start of the deceleration period.

Most high-performance road cars can only brake from 100 km/h in about 35-36 meters. That's about as good as it gets with high performance street rubber. Our best braking tests at COTY were at Clark, where the braking zones were well rubbered in.

To get less than 35-36 meters, you will need warm (high performance) tires and brakes that haven't been heated up yet... do one hard braking too many and braking distances tend to increase by two or three meters... or more.

Most likely they had faulty instrumentation/procedures for their braking test. Shame shame, Mr. Georges Ramirez.

[Egan101]

The Fiesta Ecoboost may look small but it's heavy for a subcompact. It is around 1100kg and a tad heavier than the City or Jazz. It also has a wider wheel track than the City or Jazz. The power and torque though is better than most 1.6L compacts. Despite its cramped rear, it compensates such things with its great handling and grip. Pure stock, it can do 0-100kmh in between 9-10 seconds, not sure though how much of an improvement if you turn off the Traction Control (yes, you can turn it off from its dashboard menu). It might feel slow from a stop but once you floor that pedal and reach overboost (4500-5000rpm, additional 30Nm torque), you can hear the tires chirp and it just goes. Steering feel is great despite not being electric. Top speed is rated at 190kmh. If you feel that you still need more power, a piggyback chip is available to tune it to 150+hp.

Compared to the Altis, it does look like a car for yuppies just starting with their first jobs. The Altis is a better family car. Same goes with the Lancer GT-A. However, if you want a personal daily go-kart with a small engine that could, then you'll be happy with the Fiesta Ecoboost.