audio set-up for beginners [continued]

[rege88]

Good day, ask ko lang, ano ba magandang low budget simple set up sa MB100, yun hindi naman bitin ang lakas sa loob at meron din bayo, gusto ko sana yun speakers ay in place pa rin sa original place niya dito sa MB, 2 front and 2 back, then a simple sub for bass na hindi bitin

[ezem]

The AVH-X8650 has as it is Pioneer's flagship 2DIN head unit. However, it's DSP capabilities are limited (but enough). Judging by what I see in its press release in Malaysian photos, it's limited to 3-way semi-active or 2-way full active only.

Before you start doing your setup, you should first know which category you'll be competing in. As EMMA has a # of channels and price category, you'll be building upon what you're aiming for. For example, in the Philippines we have a price bracket of 120,000php. In that case, you'll be building upon that budget inclusive of head unit. And yes, since the competition does not take installation costs into account, doon usually dinadaan ng tao ang pera

The difference of a 3-way and a 2-way is still humongous. However, there's the aspect of tuning that you need to get it right. SQ is factually just controlling the sound inside the cabin so that what you hear - sounds great. Tuning a 2-way is actually a PITA if you don't know what you're doing, a 3-way is probably a 4-fold jump in difficulty. But if you get it right, you'll be well-rewarded. This is from a pure SQ capability, the Focal Access 3-way will outperform its higher model 2-ways if you get it right.

As for full passive or active. You will always aim for active. That's what your DSP is for after all. In this case, you'll be choosing between 2-way full active or 3-way semi-active if you plan on going 3-way.

As for your subwoofer, I'll first ask on why a 10" subwoofer? Truthfully in subwoofers, there's no "SQ" or "SPL" subwoofer. The science of creating bass is simply moving air. There's no such thing as "SQ" is because kahit ano gawin mo subwoofers create a ton of distortion - 20% upwards but our ears can't simply hear it. When it comes down to technicals, a 15" subwoofer is more "SQ" than a 12 or 10" subwoofer. Why? Because it won't move a lot just to displace air whereas the smaller cones will need more cone travel (which causes distortion).

My choice of a subwoofer is the Php9k JBL P1222 sub for the 12" category and Php8k JBL P1022. JBL subwoofers are highly engineered and they have great prices. In fact, they're better than you choices of Focal P series subwoofers or the Polk MMs. I always feel they're underloved by the community really. I also don't believe in purchasing a more expensive subwoofer unless you're after the engineering behind it. For example, I payed roughly 22k for my ImageDynamics IDMax in my trunk. However it has more to do with admiration of engineering (light paper cone yet stiff enough to pound) rather than performance.

If you're in QC, shoot me a PM since taga-QC din ako. I'll let you hear my car.

Actually sir, I've considered a 10" sub kasi i don't want for it to take too much space. When I was planning to go LnC, i've considered sundown SA8v2 ported...pero when I decided to go SQ, i might go for a custom FG box. and considering yung nanalo last year na jazz (jc car audio), t'was using an 8" focal P21v2 sealed enclosure...then, so i thought 10" sub would do good after all.

Also, when I auditioned 1 civic here, ang setup nya is x8650, gladen seps, LRx 5.1, IDQ12 L-ported...di nya ma-hit yung lows when I played bass i love you (i also played several music like beatles, alternative rock,etc. , either 384bit or flac format). And I expected it to sound great, but a bit unimpressed. Had to admit that it is yet to be tuned daw but sub SQ would just depend on the box size and tuning freq. (please correct me if i'm wrong). I was comparing this to my old system na P7150ub 1din, JL J2 320.4 amp, TMA seps, and 12" JL w0v2 slot ported (pipe) wherein i can hear both the lows and hard pounding beat of "bass i love you", and yung bass is tama lang, di sobra di din naman kulang (installed by sun-x).

I'd love to hear your setup sir but sadly sa dec pa ako magbabakasyon. I might PM you sa dec

Good day, ask ko lang, ano ba magandang low budget simple set up sa MB100, yun hindi naman bitin ang lakas sa loob at meron din bayo, gusto ko sana yun speakers ay in place pa rin sa original place niya dito sa MB, 2 front and 2 back, then a simple sub for bass na hindi bitin

for low budget, i'd go for JBL sub, V12 amp, and powerbass seps for oem placement. JBL seps are also good kaso parang malalim ang mounting depth nya (not so sure). try mo kay nogs of candyshop, may mga budget meal packages sya na baka pasok sa budget mo...

[jhnkvn]

I see. If it's primarily for competition, even a 8" will suffice. First, competing in SQ competitions doesn't require you to crank up the volume and second, most "SQ" tracks doesn't have much information below 40hz really.

Correct. A subwoofer's performance is highly dependent on its enclosure. If it's a ported enclosure, it will also depend on its tuning frequency. For example, if you tune the port quite high then you won't hear the music below the tuned frequency - this is because the ported box's response dips drastically after that but if you port it too low then you aren't taking advantage of the free decibels the port freq gives you. This "fickleness" is why most people prefer to go for a sealed application for SQ. This is because a sealed box gives a very smooth response (if built right) and this is further complimented with the natural roll-off of a car's environment.

Alright, just PM me in Dec. I don't think my setup will change pa naman. I'll hype your expectations a bit since I offer one of the best bass-midbass transition among the cars I hear. It's something that I pay particular attention to ;)

[rege88]

Thank you kaibigan, i forgot to tell, cagayan de oro based ako, meron ba kayo alam na nakakaintindi mag set up dito ? Salamat kaibigan

[adrian12]

Mga sir, ok po ba yung lightning lab amf-4100s? Mas ok po ba eto kesa sa mga v12 na amp. Tight budget po kasi eh. Tanong din po ako kung anu din magandang hu na around 4-5k lang. Bago lang po kasi sa pag set up ng car audio. Meron na po akong jbl na sub na nasa l-ported box. Salamat po.


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[jhnkvn]

Thank you kaibigan, i forgot to tell, cagayan de oro based ako, meron ba kayo alam na nakakaintindi mag set up dito ? Salamat kaibigan

Sorry boss, wala ako kilala malapit dyan

Mga sir, ok po ba yung lightning lab amf-4100s? Mas ok po ba eto kesa sa mga v12 na amp. Tight budget po kasi eh. Tanong din po ako kung anu din magandang hu na around 4-5k lang. Bago lang po kasi sa pag set up ng car audio. Meron na po akong jbl na sub na nasa l-ported box. Salamat po.


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Generic V12 amp? Should be. Original Alpine V12? No.

As with most of my head unit answers -- a good head unit to fit your needs will be the one na kilangan mo features (ex. gusto mo ba ng Bluetooth, etc.) at a price na maganda. Whether that be the base model of Alpine or Pioneer won't really matter. You might want to pay attention to the pre-out voltage (higher the better so you can turn down your amp gains) and the number of pre-outs (3 is definitely better than 2).

[ezem]

Thank you kaibigan, i forgot to tell, cagayan de oro based ako, meron ba kayo alam na nakakaintindi mag set up dito ? Salamat kaibigan

mmm if my memory serves me right, galing din yata sa CDO si nogs...that was before maitayo ang candyshop sa banawe...isa sya sa magagaling na installers sa CDO, and keen in FG fabrication...tanong mo na lang sa kanya kung may mai-re-refer sya sa'yo...

[adrian12]

Salamat po sir jhnkvn. Nagtingin tingin po ako ng mga HU at may 2 na lang po akong pinagpipilian. Kenwood KDC X7013U(PHP9500) at Pioneer X7550SS(PHP5600) pareho silang may 3 na pre out *4v. Alin po kaya ang mas ok sa dalawa? Tapos ang amplifier ay yung Lightning Lab AMF-4100S na 4 channel. Ang naisip ko po ay ibbridge yung 2 channel ng amp para sa subwoofer tapos yung dalawang channel ay para sa tweeter at midrange. Tama po ba yung naiisip ko o mas magandang monoblock amp na lang ang bilhin ko para sa subs tapos yung separates ko po ay sa HU na nakadiretso? (Bale yung mga separates ko po rh mga generic lang, pag iipunan pa ulit para makabili ng mas magandang klase, haha) medyo mahaba na, tanong na lang po ako ulit base sa mga isasagot nyo mga master. Salamat po.


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[ezem]

Salamat po sir jhnkvn. Nagtingin tingin po ako ng mga HU at may 2 na lang po akong pinagpipilian. Kenwood KDC X7013U(PHP9500) at Pioneer X7550SS(PHP5600) pareho silang may 3 na pre out *4v. Alin po kaya ang mas ok sa dalawa? Tapos ang amplifier ay yung Lightning Lab AMF-4100S na 4 channel. Ang naisip ko po ay ibbridge yung 2 channel ng amp para sa subwoofer tapos yung dalawang channel ay para sa tweeter at midrange. Tama po ba yung naiisip ko o mas magandang monoblock amp na lang ang bilhin ko para sa subs tapos yung separates ko po ay sa HU na nakadiretso? (Bale yung mga separates ko po rh mga generic lang, pag iipunan pa ulit para makabili ng mas magandang klase, haha) medyo mahaba na, tanong na lang po ako ulit base sa mga isasagot nyo mga master. Salamat po.


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since you're willing to spend as much as 9.5k on HU, i'd rather have the x9650bt (Php8000) OR go with that x7550 (5.6k) plus Auditor RIP 165S * 4.8k (owned by Focal, IMO one of the best bang for the buck seps) or its new version Focal Auditor R-165S2 (hopefully not far from the price of the former) or JBL GT0 seps...like what jhnkvn said, for base unit, either alpine or pioneer.

AMF-4100S would be 200WRms x 2 * 4ohm if i'm not mistaken, and assuming na ang JBL sub mo is either 12" GT0 (300W) o GT5 (275W) series SVC, kulang sa power yung sub. Instead of buying a mono-amp, don't buy the LL amp and just buy a better 4ch amp like Sound Magus 160.4 and set it up as 3ch - jan sigurado busog at happy ang JBL sub mo.

[jhnkvn]

Aside from pre-outs, also look for features. It's not fair for me to simply judge a head unit based on price and brand, but if you want a blind vote, I'll pick the Pioneer since it's more affordable.

Yes, you can just bridge it for the subwoofer and use the remaining two channels for your frontstage which will have passive crossovers naman.

The only reason you might want to get a monoblock is if you think you need more power whether that be more watts at a given ohms or you plan on lessening the resistance (ohms) to get more power. Monoblocks excel because a lot of them are stable given 2-ohms and the more expensive ones are stable up to 1 ohm. On the otherhand, 4 channel bridging is usually stuck at 4 ohms.

[markygy]

Salamat po sir jhnkvn. Nagtingin tingin po ako ng mga HU at may 2 na lang po akong pinagpipilian. Kenwood KDC X7013U(PHP9500) at Pioneer X7550SS(PHP5600) pareho silang may 3 na pre out *4v. Alin po kaya ang mas ok sa dalawa? Tapos ang amplifier ay yung Lightning Lab AMF-4100S na 4 channel. Ang naisip ko po ay ibbridge yung 2 channel ng amp para sa subwoofer tapos yung dalawang channel ay para sa tweeter at midrange. Tama po ba yung naiisip ko o mas magandang monoblock amp na lang ang bilhin ko para sa subs tapos yung separates ko po ay sa HU na nakadiretso? (Bale yung mga separates ko po rh mga generic lang, pag iipunan pa ulit para makabili ng mas magandang klase, haha) medyo mahaba na, tanong na lang po ako ulit base sa mga isasagot nyo mga master. Salamat po.


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Yun sa HU you can go with either. Personally yun piooner din ang vote ko.
Tama na yan naisip mo na e bridge ang dalawang channel to power the sub. Ang tanong kung ano mismong sub ang balak mo ilagay.

[adrian12]

since you're willing to spend as much as 9.5k on HU, i'd rather have the x9650bt (Php8000) OR go with that x7550 (5.6k) plus Auditor RIP 165S * 4.8k (owned by Focal, IMO one of the best bang for the buck seps) or its new version Focal Auditor R-165S2 (hopefully not far from the price of the former) or JBL GT0 seps...like what jhnkvn said, for base unit, either alpine or pioneer.

AMF-4100S would be 200WRms x 2 * 4ohm if i'm not mistaken, and assuming na ang JBL sub mo is either 12" GT0 (300W) o GT5 (275W) series SVC, kulang sa power yung sub. Instead of buying a mono-amp, don't buy the LL amp and just buy a better 4ch amp like Sound Magus 160.4 and set it up as 3ch - jan sigurado busog at happy ang JBL sub mo.

Sir, san po kayo nakakita ng x9650bt na 8k lang? Ang mahal po kasi ng nakita ko sa sulit eh. Yung mga seps po, next ko pang bibilhin pag nakaipon ulit pero salamat po sa suggestion. Yung subs ko naman po eh yung jbl gt5. Sa ngayon po hayaan ko muna syang magkulang ng pagkain * 200 watts dahil sa bridged na amf4100, busugin ko po sya nxt time na magkabudget ulit, bibilhan ko po ng sariling mono amp yung subs tas yung amf ko po eh para na lang sa mga seps ko. Mga plano pa lang po yan, di pa kasi alam kung kelan ulit magkakabudget. Hahaha. Last na po, kung may link ka po o shop para dun sa 8k na x9650bt, penge po ako. Thanks po.




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[adrian12]

Aside from pre-outs, also look for features. It's not fair for me to simply judge a head unit based on price and brand, but if you want a blind vote, I'll pick the Pioneer since it's more affordable.

Yes, you can just bridge it for the subwoofer and use the remaining two channels for your frontstage which will have passive crossovers naman.

The only reason you might want to get a monoblock is if you think you need more power whether that be more watts at a given ohms or you plan on lessening the resistance (ohms) to get more power. Monoblocks excel because a lot of them are stable given 2-ohms and the more expensive ones are stable up to 1 ohm. On the otherhand, 4 channel bridging is usually stuck at 4 ohms.

Yes sir, naconsider ko din po yung mga features, halos andun na din naman po kasi lahat ng gusto ko. Ang di ko lang po alam eh kung future proof na po sila, yung kung magagamit ko pa din po if ever gusto ko pang pagandahin ulit yung setup ko.
Tapos sir, another newbie question, yung AMF4100s po ba o kahit anung 4 channel amp ay pwedeng i-bridge yung 3 channel o lahat ng channel? Sorry, wala pong idea. Naiisip ko lang po kasi eh kung kulang yung power ng 2 channel na nakabridge sa sub eh susubukan ko pong i-bridge yung 3 channel para sa sub tas isang channel na lang magsshare yung mid at tweeter ko since mga stock lang naman po sila. Salamat po ulit.


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[adrian12]

Yun sa HU you can go with either. Personally yun piooner din ang vote ko.
Tama na yan naisip mo na e bridge ang dalawang channel to power the sub. Ang tanong kung ano mismong sub ang balak mo ilagay.

Thanks po sir. Jbl gt5 12in po gamit ko na sub tas l-ported yung enclosure.


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[adrian12]

Sorry double post

[jhnkvn]

Yes sir, naconsider ko din po yung mga features, halos andun na din naman po kasi lahat ng gusto ko. Ang di ko lang po alam eh kung future proof na po sila, yung kung magagamit ko pa din po if ever gusto ko pang pagandahin ulit yung setup ko.
Tapos sir, another newbie question, yung AMF4100s po ba o kahit anung 4 channel amp ay pwedeng i-bridge yung 3 channel o lahat ng channel? Sorry, wala pong idea. Naiisip ko lang po kasi eh kung kulang yung power ng 2 channel na nakabridge sa sub eh susubukan ko pong i-bridge yung 3 channel para sa sub tas isang channel na lang magsshare yung mid at tweeter ko since mga stock lang naman po sila. Salamat po ulit.


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Take it from me, there's no such thing as future-proofing in budget head units. Today's feature list may include Bluetooth and USB connectivity but expect head units a decade from now to have features such as Apple AirPlay built-in or digital radio (if ever magkaroon tayo). But as long as nothing breaks down, expect them to still work if ever tinambak mo sa bodega tapos binalikan mo after a few years of storage.

What bridging means is that you combine the output of two channels to provide the effect of a mono amplifier. In other words, you can only bridge two channels - bawal tatlong channels into one. For 4-channel amplifiers, most of them are stable to run double bridged naman. In other words, from 4x100.. you can bridge 2-2 and get 2x200W. This "flexibility" is one of the reasons why I like 4-channel amplifiers over 2-channel and mono amplifiers.

Yun usual diagram dyan is that:
Channel 1 - Right Speakers (tweeter + midbass + passive crossover connecting both drivers)
Channel 2 - Left Speakers (tweeter + midbass + passive crossover connecting both drivers)
Channels 3&4 - Subwoofer (bridged)

Post lang if you have more questions

[adrian12]

Take it from me, there's no such thing as future-proofing in budget head units. Today's feature list may include Bluetooth and USB connectivity but expect head units a decade from now to have features such as Apple AirPlay built-in or digital radio (if ever magkaroon tayo). But as long as nothing breaks down, expect them to still work if ever tinambak mo sa bodega tapos binalikan mo after a few years of storage.

What bridging means is that you combine the output of two channels to provide the effect of a mono amplifier. In other words, you can only bridge two channels - bawal tatlong channels into one. For 4-channel amplifiers, most of them are stable to run double bridged naman. In other words, from 4x100.. you can bridge 2-2 and get 2x200W. This "flexibility" is one of the reasons why I like 4-channel amplifiers over 2-channel and mono amplifiers.

Yun usual diagram dyan is that:
Channel 1 - Right Speakers (tweeter + midbass + passive crossover connecting both drivers)
Channel 2 - Left Speakers (tweeter + midbass + passive crossover connecting both drivers)
Channels 3&4 - Subwoofer (bridged)

Post lang if you have more questions

Salamat sa laging pagsagot ng mga tanong ko sir. Sana di ka magsawa sa pagsagot. Mukhang naubusan ako ng tanong ngayon sir, mag iipon muna ako ulit ng mga tanong. Haha.


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[ezem]

Sir, san po kayo nakakita ng x9650bt na 8k lang? ... kung may link ka po o shop para dun sa 8k na x9650bt, penge po ako. Thanks po.




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here's your link para sa 8k na x9650bt...click here

a little piece of advice...for bnew gears, better buy from reputable shops katulad nung sa link...

[adrian12]

here's your link para sa 8k na x9650bt...click here

a little piece of advice...for bnew gears, better buy from reputable shops katulad nung sa link...

Thanks sir sa link. Napaisip tuloy ako kung alin ang bibilhin ko, kung yung pioneer na x7550sd o x9650bt. Haha.

May bago na po akong tanong mga sir, alin po kaya mas maganda yung LL AMF4100s o yung sound magus c160. Mas mahal po kasi yung c160, ang tanong konpo eh mas sulit po ba kung yun na lang ang bibilhin ko kesa sa amf4100? Salamat po ulit.


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[ezem]

Thanks sir sa link. Napaisip tuloy ako kung alin ang bibilhin ko, kung yung pioneer na x7550sd o x9650bt. Haha.

May bago na po akong tanong mga sir, alin po kaya mas maganda yung LL AMF4100s o yung sound magus c160. Mas mahal po kasi yung c160, ang tanong konpo eh mas sulit po ba kung yun na lang ang bibilhin ko kesa sa amf4100? Salamat po ulit.


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drop the LL and buy a 4ch amp na higher capacity para maiwasan mo yung bili, then replace kasi mapapagastos ka lang lalo. do it right the first time.

if against LL, my vote would go on the magus...but then again, old model na yang c160, ang new model nyan e VS160.4, should be at the same price range. pero both are great amps for their price. 350W on bridge mode also kaya busog na sub mo.

either buy the x7550sd then, you can also buy the Auditor seps or buy the x9650bt then ipon mode na lang uli para sa seps sa susunod.