audio set-up for beginners [continued]

[monty_GTV]

i saw it too sa KAC, i don't have any idea sir about the amp performance at kung magkano ang SRP.

btw, so many used high-end brands sold in KAC lately, bewith accurate (sold), genesis absolute series, focal utopia wrc and today micro-precision z series

[simonzaide]

Thanks sir well..

Need to do a lot of backreading muna so far based on my understanding i can run a set up like this

HU: stock
Sound Proc: will depend if i got 2 way or 3 way
FRONTS :3 way or 2 way
REAR: not really a pro so do you put in a midrange or coaxial what type do you put sa rear ?
SUB: still contemplating on 1 10/12 inch or 2 8 inchers
Amps: really set on those tube amps
If i go 2 way in front 1 amp to active 2 way
Is it possible to have another amp 4 channel to power my rear and 1 sub ?

[simonzaide]

Also regarding the sound deadening and wiring how much do i need to budget for the set up above ? And given i go for a stealth look how much do i spend for woodworks and enclosure

[jhnkvn]

Okay, this is what you do.

1. Know your budget
Truthfully, this is ironic of me since I technically work on an open-budget basis. But then again, not everybody is as passionate as me when it comes to car audio (my modifications alone is in the realm of 6-digits after all). I will advice people who are beginning their project to have a budget. Because the budget will dictate everything. From your choice of gears, installation, and even installer choice. You'll eventually have to compromise one way or the other so that the components will all fit "within" the budget.

I'll give a sound warning: 90% of people I know who has a budget of 50,000php upwards will overspend their initial budget.

2. Find an installer and state your budget.
Most installers are two things combined: artists and entrepreneurs. Artists is because the ideal setup is one that's a blank slate. In that point, a lot of them disdain continuing the work of other artists. So choose wisely on who you want as an installer. Talk to them and judge them on their customer service, their knowledge, and experience. Entrepreneur - because this is a business. Some installers will push you products which have a higher profit margin for them regardless of their performance. Now, each of these artists are experienced and will have differing philosophies on how to construct your project so don't expect Installer A to push for the same products as Installer B.

3. Research and Listen
This is where most of your time will be spent. Think of this as constructing a blueprint for your house. First thing you do is research - there's a wealth of knowledge in backreading KAC's threads. Tsikot's very own "audio setup for beginners" thread also has a huge backlog of posts (mostly by me) which may come in handy for your questions.

After researching, start listening. Now, how to listen. First is contacting your installer - usually meron yan on-going project or an already finished project. Ask permission if you may "audition" the setup and just listen. Listen to a lot of car and you'll get a rough idea on what you'll like - which will probably make you change your initial equipment to suit your wants.

And before you finish reading my post, I'll remind you to pick your route: SQ, Loud and Clear, or SPL. These are three distinct routes and it's one-route-per-system. I will advice you not to try an jack-of-all-trades system as most I've seen who attempt only ends up disappointed.

---

As for replies...

Rear Speakers
You won't need them. Your front speakers is loud enough so that you won't ever need your rears.
Case to point: I've never heard anybody complaining inside my car why it doesn't have rear speakers.

Dynaquest amplifiers
SRP of Dynaquest amplifiers are around Php16,000 if memory serves right. Will I recommend it? I won't because there's usually better ones out there. The Dynaquest amplifier is a hybrid tube amplifier. The tube is at the pre-amp stage while a solid-state MOSFET is at the power stage. Truthfully, you won't really hear any "tube-ness" in the sound with hybrids. This is because most of their bias is set too low to affect the music. So it's either you go for pure tube (not recommended in a car) or you go solid-state (what 99% of us use).

Also, I haven't seen one being purchased first-hand for a long time na. They were popular back in 2008-2010 but since have waned in popularity.

[simonzaide]

Thanks for the reply sir

[threadstone]

nanghihinayang ako sa AVT HU ko. Me GPS na sana kaya lang pangit ng sound output.


Sent from my iPod

If I will retain my AVT HU, considering na napalitan na rin po yung stock speakers (front and rear), meron na rin syang outside wall deadening (4 doors), 10" sub and 4-ch ampli, mas gaganda po ba yung sounds nya kung lalagyan ko sya ng processor or equalizer na lang? Budgeted yung set-up ko. Cost around 30K lang.
Btw, I'm into SQ and minsan me konting bass kapag nakikinig ng mga pop music like Maroon 5 or One Direction.
Mahina lang din naman ako mag sounds and usually nasa 10 lang ang volume ko.

Nasabi sa akin nung installer yung limitation ng AVT HU and nakita ko naman na napaka-konti ng sound adjustments nya.
Ang ayaw ko lang sa set-up ko ngayon is nanginginig yung car kapag pumapalo yung bass, kahit -1 na yung setting nya sa HU.
Saka parang me kulang na hindi ko malaman. Ang gusto ko sana is parang nakikinig kalang ng mga opera or theater music. Meron akong Boss Noise cancelling Headset and yun yung gusto ko sana maging output sa kotse ko. Meron bass pero hindi nanginginig and buong-buo ang tunog nya.
Nag aabang nga po ako ng car show para makapag audition ng mga me sound set up na para magka idea kung ano pa ang kailangan gawin sa set up ko.

For the meantime, please advise kung papalitan ko yung HU ko ng Pioneer or I will just retain it and attach a processor or equalizer.

[jhnkvn]

If I will retain my AVT HU, considering na napalitan na rin po yung stock speakers (front and rear), meron na rin syang outside wall deadening (4 doors), 10" sub and 4-ch ampli, mas gaganda po ba yung sounds nya kung lalagyan ko sya ng processor or equalizer na lang? Budgeted yung set-up ko. Cost around 30K lang.
Btw, I'm into SQ and minsan me konting bass kapag nakikinig ng mga pop music like Maroon 5 or One Direction.
Mahina lang din naman ako mag sounds and usually nasa 10 lang ang volume ko.

Nasabi sa akin nung installer yung limitation ng AVT HU and nakita ko naman na napaka-konti ng sound adjustments nya.
Ang ayaw ko lang sa set-up ko ngayon is nanginginig yung car kapag pumapalo yung bass, kahit -1 na yung setting nya sa HU.
Saka parang me kulang na hindi ko malaman. Ang gusto ko sana is parang nakikinig kalang ng mga opera or theater music. Meron akong Boss Noise cancelling Headset and yun yung gusto ko sana maging output sa kotse ko. Meron bass pero hindi nanginginig and buong-buo ang tunog nya.
Nag aabang nga po ako ng car show para makapag audition ng mga me sound set up na para magka idea kung ano pa ang kailangan gawin sa set up ko.

For the meantime, please advise kung papalitan ko yung HU ko ng Pioneer or I will just retain it and attach a processor or equalizer.

A processor is not cheap. A 2-way processor will set you back 16,000php and in order to take advantage of its capabilities, you'll need more channels so that means another amplifier (you need one more channel for the subwoofer) and this will cost you anywhere from 5,000php upwards depending on budget. Once you have the gears, yun mahirap dyan is the tuning.

I wouldn't bet on car shows for auditions really. Most car shows are LnC (Loud and Clear) by nature - you want flashy speakers, amplifiers, televisions, woodworks, etc. being displayed. If you want to wait, your best bet will be EMMA Philippines' final leg which should be in Metro Manila sometime near the end of the year. If not, your second best bet is to ask somebody who actually has a SQ setup and ask for an audition. If you can drop by Banawe, QC feel free to message me.

For your advice, that's... a hard question. If you disregard the effort needed to tune, the processor route is better. The Pioneer route is good as an insta-fix tho.. you see, a lot of people with stock HUs like that Monty's AVT will eventually upgrade to Pioneer's 2DINs once they have a processor (nalalaman mo rin kasi yun limits).

[MonteroGLSV]

sir jhnkvn. if palitan ko po ng HU ung monti ko into Pioneer' 2DINsmag improve po ba sound quality nyan considering stock po lahat except sa HU? TIA

[jhnkvn]

sir jhnkvn. if palitan ko po ng HU ung monti ko into Pioneer' 2DINsmag improve po ba sound quality nyan considering stock po lahat except sa HU? TIA

Improvement? Certainly. But at the price of a brand new 2DIN head unit? I'll pass. I'd rather have a AVT head unit but with upgraded speakers.

[MonteroGLSV]

thanks sir jhnkvn.

Improvement? Certainly. But at the price of a brand new 2DIN head unit? I'll pass. I'd rather have a AVT head unit but with upgraded speakers.

[D3nb3r]

good day mga gurus,
newbie here I've been back reading for quite some time now. I've learn a lot, thanks.
I'm planning to make a DIY upgrade on speakers but on stock HU. I have a pick-up btw and a family guy kaya not much of choice sa space. Kaya plan ko speakers and sound deadening lang yung set-up ko.

Sa mga nabasa ko po kasi pag ang speakers that are more than 5k ang price dapat mg add na nang amp. Also most guys here always say that you have to find the highest sensitivity possible for the planned budget. I'm working on a ship and sometimes our trade routes are europe and US. I found a $110.00 rockford fosgate P1675-S 120W peak power, 60W rms and a 89dB sensitivity.That price is below 5k na but I dont know if this unit has the same price sa pinas.
My question po is: At what specs of a component set-up speakers do I have to add an amp?
any input will be much appreciated thanks.

[machinepistol]

I installed a Rockford Fosgate R1652-S (separates) and R1653 (3-way co-axial) each with 80w peak power output and 40w RMS on the stock HU of my Monty GLS 2010 with sound deadening on all four doors (inner and outer). Very nice result.

[D3nb3r]

I installed a Rockford Fosgate R1652-S (separates) and R1653 (3-way co-axial) each with 80w peak power output and 40w RMS on the stock HU of my Monty GLS 2010 with sound deadening on all four doors (inner and outer). Very nice result.

Thanks for the info sir manchinepistol.
Yung 2010 gls monty po ba naka 7" MMS na? I'm planning din kasi a DIY reverse camera installation. Magkano po ba kuha nyo sa R1652-S seps and R1653 coax? pag konti lang price difference, sa pinas na lang ako bibili.

Edit: Hindi pala R1652-S yung nakita kong add but R1675-S kaya nag taka ako bakit mag kaiba nang specs sa inyo sir. Sorry. Kaya I still stand by my question na: at what max power/rms of a speaker do I have to install an amp?

[jhnkvn]

(!)
1. Do NOT base a speaker's RMS power as it's required power
2. Do NOT correlate higher RMS into better speakers nor do higher RMS need "more power"

A speaker's RMS and peak power ratings are just quantitative measurements on how much power can the speaker handle during transients and during sustained playing. And.. that's all. If you have 500W of power on tap then you turn up the volume on a 300W peak wattage speaker, then expect a blown voice coil.

Whether you need an amplifier or not will depend on your listening levels. That's all.

An amplifier won't miraculously make your system sing. In fact, if you stay under the head unit's 18W output, you'll be guessing most of the time if you claim to hear a difference between a head unit powered and an amplified system. If you simply do background listening on a speaker, you won't need an amplifier. If you plan on listening to a louder decibel level, then it's time to throw one in.

[red_one]

at what max power/rms of a speaker do I have to install an amp?

just like what jhnkvn said, it all depends on your listening level.

example, if you have 45W RMS speakers and head unit with 20W RMS power output, and you are already listening at full volume yet still not loud enough for you, then that is the time to add an amp.

[simonzaide]

Sirs i have another question.. if i go the 3 way route it means i will need to disable my rear speakers since this will mess the tuning. Is it possible to replace these rear speakers with a pair of small subs lets say around 2 pieces of 8 inch subs

Subs will be mou ted where the speakers are of course this would entail retrofit for it to fit

I was thinking of this because i wanted to save on trunk space

[D3nb3r]

(!)
1. Do NOT base a speaker's RMS power as it's required power
2. Do NOT correlate higher RMS into better speakers nor do higher RMS need "more power"

A speaker's RMS and peak power ratings are just quantitative measurements on how much power can the speaker handle during transients and during sustained playing. And.. that's all. If you have 500W of power on tap then you turn up the volume on a 300W peak wattage speaker, then expect a blown voice coil.

Whether you need an amplifier or not will depend on your listening levels. That's all.

An amplifier won't miraculously make your system sing. In fact, if you stay under the head unit's 18W output, you'll be guessing most of the time if you claim to hear a difference between a head unit powered and an amplified system. If you simply do background listening on a speaker, you won't need an amplifier. If you plan on listening to a louder decibel level, then it's time to throw one in.

thanks for that info sir jhnkvn. As always, you make time to give a detailed answer and patience to newbies like us.

just like what jhnkvn said, it all depends on your listening level.

example, if you have 45W RMS speakers and head unit with 20W RMS power output, and you are already listening at full volume yet still not loud enough for you, then that is the time to add an amp.

yes sir, I can say the volume I usually use cant wake up the neighbors but mostly I like a pronounce bass. I know seperates are not built for that. I guess I have to wait after the sound deadening and speaker upgrade if I really need the amps. Thanks.

[MonteroGLSV]

Thanks also sir jhnkvn another question here.

do you recommend this kind of setup for monti?

Pillar modification cost is 6,000

set of focal 165fx, cost is 22k. This includes two tw, two midbass and two xover.

[jhnkvn]

Sirs i have another question.. if i go the 3 way route it means i will need to disable my rear speakers since this will mess the tuning. Is it possible to replace these rear speakers with a pair of small subs lets say around 2 pieces of 8 inch subs

Subs will be mou ted where the speakers are of course this would entail retrofit for it to fit

I was thinking of this because i wanted to save on trunk space

Yes. If you're taking the SQ route seriously, disabled rear speakers are preferred. Tuning 7 speakers are already a pain in the ass, if you throw in your rears, it becomes a whole different level of difficulty. That's not to say that rear speakers will always mess the tuning, it's just that getting them right is extremely hard.

Okay, your problem in those small subwoofers will be phasing and vibration. As your rear speakers are facing towards each other, your sound waves will also interact differently than that of a pair of subwoofers side-by-side. If you plan on saving up on trunk space, I've seen a lot of 8" and 10" subwoofer installations on the passenger footwell. That might compromise your passenger's ability to stretch inside your car but truthfully, it's quite a good location.

A subwoofer, once tuned well, simply blends into the music. In installation, you want a rigid enclosure - one that doesn't vibrate much because every vibration is lost power (it cancels out the waves inside the enclosure having you end up with less output). Another thing is that you want your subwoofer to be vibration-friendly towards your cabin. Vibration is the reason why we hear our subwoofers at the back. If you've manage to listen a LnC car, you're bound to always hear the bass at the back. The reason for this is (aside from proper tuning) vibration due to subwoofer output but if you listen to a subwoofer in a cinema.. you'll be damned where to find it. This is because not only is it properly tuned to coincide with the other drivers but there's no physical cues to give away its location.

[jhnkvn]

Thanks also sir jhnkvn another question here.

do you recommend this kind of setup for monti?

Pillar modification cost is 6,000

set of focal 165fx, cost is 22k. This includes two tw, two midbass and two xover.

Well, pillar costs varies kasi. For example, kung kilala ka sa Banawe and suki mo yun installer pillar costs can go really low. Big-name shops charge around twice that because of their expertise - meron pa yan mga interior volume, how it is positioned, etc. and they will wrap it with the lining of your choice - want suede? pwede. want leather? pwede.

The Focal 165FX is widely lauded. No problems there naman ;) I simply hope that you like how Focal sounds - since you may like its competition's sound better. But if it's your first purchase, just go for it. For many, it raises their first bar (of standard) when it comes to sound quality in a car.

I will still remind people that the best SQ cars isn't one dependent on gears but it is of tuning. I attribute my car's sound with 80% tuning and 20% equipments.