MVPMAP's PhUV feedback thread

[hein]

BUT... the Ariel Atom is a "cost no object" design.

Ahhhh. That is the DIFFERENCE between the Anglo-Americans and Japanese in contrast with the Pinoys.

GOOD QUALITY should trancend all products, whether it is cheap consumer goods to high-end products. Whether you are from a small fledgling company to a multinational.

GOOD QUALITY should be ingrained into our consciousness. That is why they are PROGRESSIVE and we are not.

[safeorigin]

i think i'm gonna agree with hein all the time for now on.{well, there maybe some exeptions with that, i guess.}

*hein: hope to see you on the launch of the tsikot PhUV.

[hein]

For example, this is the dark and dirty EDSA TUNNEL that goes under the Makti CBD. OK na sa mga Pinoy ito. Kaya for the MVPMAP, OK na din ang PHUV for the people.

[hein]

This is a road tunnel in NEW ZEALAND, a tiny country of 4 million people. Look at how CLEAN and BRIGHT it is. QUALITY is ingrained in everything they do kaya they are RICH and PROSPEROUS.

[drey]

kaya in short, we should never settle for less... right hein?

[chua_riwap]

Iwasan na yung ugaling "Pwede na yan........"

[dprox]

I took this from Philippine Tribune. Its horrible. I hope we can still rally people to support the up and coming Tsikot PHUV, an improved MVPMAP PHUV and even the newly-improved CHOK. These are the hope of reviving our dying motor industry. The lack of government support resulted to this:

Bike maker Norkis closes due to flood of imports 06/18/2007
The entry of cheap motorbikes has forced one of the local pioneers to cease operations after the Cebu City-based Norkis Trading Co. (NTC) filed a notice to stop production and assembly operations of Yamaha motorcycles before the Department of Labor and Employment (DoLE).
NTC managing head for human resources management and development Charito Calumpang informed DoLE 7 Director Elias Cayanong that about 364 permanent executives and rank-and-file employees were offered early retirement packages.

More army of unemployed in our country. Di pa kasama dito yung indirectly unemployed. More economic crimes in the area?

Bikes are kinda OT in this thread, but this latest development is parallel to topic.
It confirms something about the sophisticated visual taste of Pinoy consumers. They know when a thing looks good. And they will raise money to buy a good looker - even if it's a lemon. Why? It's all they can afford, considering they have to defray the cost of elections, graft and corruption.

Chinese CBU bikes are inferior to Yamaha in terms of quality of materials and durability. That's what makes them dirt cheap in comparison. But the thing is, the Chinese bikes have a more appealing look, compared to the perennial, non-evolving Yamaha models. The choices before the buyer are:
low price, short life, stylish vs. high price, long life, obsolete look
If this were elevated to a national referendum on bikes, what would the average Juan choose? That's a no-brainer if there's an economic crunch.

Me? I would prefer inexpensive, medium-life, stylish, and quiet please. But that's just me.
Chinese are definitely more sensitive to the market, and they're invading us while looking like liberators. Their human resources are humunguous. Yamaha is Japanese, and the rising sun has begun its decline precisely THIS YEAR.

Examine the biz war strategem: Wipe out the competition by price-diving; let a few years pass as you develop the product and resurface in phases, ending up with a top class bike with a commensurate price.

IMHO, Norkis could have averted this tragedy if it had invested in new bike models and style evolution ten years ago. Remember: the average Filipino is a visual buyer whose purchasing power rests heavily on private remittances from abroad. Gosh, it's like Sarao all over again. Zero Innovation / Extended Period = Extinction. Why do Filipino vehicle makers fail to appreciate the value of design!?

Finally, just to avoid being OT, apply that analysis to the utility vehicle market. Imagine we use a Chinese platform with Filipino design/style. Hey, MVPMAP is on the right track. It's just not running very well at the moment because the Filipino body style is missing from the PhUV.

[wulfrealms]

hey guys ngaun ko lang nakita ung thread na to. i believe dapat maging proud tau somehow, saka prototype plang un, and ang alam ko meron mga files un (autocad) na drawings for improvement, actually di yata ko dapat mag comment d2, pero i'm one of the RND na gumawa nyan, pero patapos na nung nag start ako dun, nakikita ko ung effort ng RND and I'M SO PROUD OF IT.

basta w8 lang kau, mag iimprove yan, di ko na kasi pwede sabihin mga details ng mga projects pero all i know is they are doing the best to make a good quality products. have a nice day. hope maging successful mga projects ng MVPMAP.

[Syuryuken]

hey guys ngaun ko lang nakita ung thread na to. i believe dapat maging proud tau somehow, saka prototype plang un, and ang alam ko meron mga files un (autocad) na drawings for improvement, actually di yata ko dapat mag comment d2, pero i'm one of the RND na gumawa nyan, pero patapos na nung nag start ako dun, nakikita ko ung effort ng RND and I'M SO PROUD OF IT.

basta w8 lang kau, mag iimprove yan, di ko na kasi pwede sabihin mga details ng mga projects pero all i know is they are doing the best to make a good quality products. have a nice day. hope maging successful mga projects ng MVPMAP.

Yan ang aabangan namin.

BTW welcome to tsikot.

[saipeme]

* hein

sir duguan na ang mga taga mvpmap but you have a very good point...natumbok mo sir sana nga maging wake up call ito para naman yong sinasabi nila na pwedeng ipagmalaki eh talgang dapat ipagmalaki.

[jpdm]

For example, this is the dark and dirty EDSA TUNNEL that goes under the Makti CBD. OK na sa mga Pinoy ito. Kaya for the MVPMAP, OK na din ang PHUV for the people.

Hein, hindi OK sa akin o sa Pinoy ito. Alam mo bang inutang sa Japan pagpapagawa nyan? Dahil sa puro budget deficit ang gobyerno ng Pinas, alang perang pagpapaayos o maintenance ng mga public infrastructures.

Ngayon bakit laging may budget deficit? kasi, puro trade deficit tayo o di kaya walang makuhang tax sa tao. Sino ang i-ta-tax mo yung nawalan ng trabaho sa NORKIS?

Di ko kasi maintindihan kung bakit ang gobyerno, wala na ngang makuhang tax sa nagdarahop na tao---(SWS 2006 survey states that more than half of Filipinos are poor. A big number also suffered hunger. If the government failed to save the domestic car industry, next to go--50,000 jobs from MVPMAP. Well, we should also blame the MVPMAP because, I really dont know if they are really serious of saving the auto industry, with the way they came up with the prototype. Even I-- who valiantly defended the efforts of the MVPMAP (not necessary the Dreamco prototype but the PHUV project itself) to save the local industry in this thread (and other threads) will just give up--- if MVPMAP will not wake up-- and, should not be deaf and dumb with the clamor of Tsikoteers and the buying public to shape up and give the buying public a respectable model)--- blindly adheres to liberalization--making us dumping ground of all sorts of imports. Masakit nito, masyadong napakababa pa ng taripa. So saan na naman kukuha ng pera ang pamahalaan natin?

Bakit Japan, ang yaman-yaman pinuprotektuhan nila ang market nya sa import? Pag tayo magpoprotekta sa mercado natin, di puede, masama--destructive daw.

When shall we protect our industries, when all local industries are dead?Shall we do then, we will just consume all imported products? Even the mightly USA, was hurt by imports, and there is a move now either from the federal govt / Congress-- to bring down their trade deficit (with China and Japan), put the Made in the USA tag (parang buy pinoy sa atin) and help US companies to export more.

Amidst the nationalism bashing here in this thread let me remind you of what the nationalists (mercantilists in Western Europe and North America, imperialist in Japan, nationalist in China, fascists in Germany, Italy, Bumiputras in Malaysia. Di ko sinama pinas, kung meron man, tingin, blind, destructive, communists, anachronistic, archaic etc.) have done for their respective countries.

Hard core nationalists made Japan an economic giant, an imperialist country. The zaibatsus ( dati ata tung mga samurai families)--powerful Japanese companies (Sumitomo, Marubeni, Nichemin, Mitsui, Mitsubishi, Toyota)were nurtured by ultra nationalists of Japan (remember the dreaded zero fighters of the Kamikazes, gawa ng Mitsubishi yun) that why until this day these guys have a firm grip of Dai Nippon.

Korea, have their Chaebols (Hanjin, Samsung, Hyundai, Kia, LG, Sangyong) well protected by the government plus financial assistance. No wonder, in just afew years Korea have joined the elite club of rich nations-OECD (Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development).

Bayanihan spirit po lamang. alang tutulong sa atin kundi kapwa Pinoy. Hein, can you give positive comments? After hitting the PHUV project, can you suggest any alternative design for the PHUV just like what niky has done?

[rmb]

Hein, hindi OK sa akin o sa Pinoy ito. Alam mo bang inutang sa Japan pagpapagawa nyan? Dahil sa puro budget deficit ang gobyerno ng Pinas, alang perang pagpapaayos o maintenance ng mga public infrastructures.

Ngayon bakit laging may budget deficit? kasi, puro trade deficit tayo o di kaya walang makuhang tax sa tao. Sino ang i-ta-tax mo yung nawalan ng trabaho sa NORKIS?

Di ko kasi maintindihan kung bakit ang gobyerno, wala na ngang makuhang tax sa nagdarahop na tao---(SWS 2006 survey states that more than half of Filipinos are poor. A big number also suffered hunger. If the government failed to save the domestic car industry, next to go--50,000 jobs from MVPMAP. Well, we should also blame the MVPMAP because, I really dont know if they are really serious of saving the auto industry, with the way they came up with the prototype. Even I-- who valiantly defended the efforts of the MVPMAP (not necessary the Dreamco prototype but the PHUV project itself) to save the local industry in this thread (and other threads) will just give up--- if MVPMAP will not wake up-- and, should not be deaf and dumb with the clamor of Tsikoteers and the buying public to shape up and give the buying public a respectable model)--- blindly adheres to liberalization--making us dumping ground of all sorts of imports. Masakit nito, masyadong napakababa pa ng taripa. So saan na naman kukuha ng pera ang pamahalaan natin?

Bakit Japan, ang yaman-yaman pinuprotektuhan nila ang market nya sa import? Pag tayo magpoprotekta sa mercado natin, di puede, masama--destructive daw.

When shall we protect our industries, when all local industries are dead?Shall we do then, we will just consume all imported products? Even the mightly USA, was hurt by imports, and there is a move now either from the federal govt / Congress-- to bring down their trade deficit (with China and Japan), put the Made in the USA tag (parang buy pinoy sa atin) and help US companies to export more.

Amidst the nationalism bashing here in this thread let me remind you of what the nationalists (mercantilists in Western Europe and North America, imperialist in Japan, nationalist in China, fascists in Germany, Italy, Bumiputras in Malaysia. Di ko sinama pinas, kung meron man, tingin, blind, destructive, communists, anachronistic, archaic etc.) have done for their respective countries.

Hard core nationalists made Japan an economic giant, an imperialist country. The zaibatsus ( dati ata tung mga samurai families)--powerful Japanese companies (Sumitomo, Marubeni, Nichemin, Mitsui, Mitsubishi, Toyota)were nurtured by ultra nationalists of Japan (remember the dreaded zero fighters of the Kamikazes, gawa ng Mitsubishi yun) that why until this day these guys have a firm grip of Dai Nippon.

Korea, have their Chaebols (Hanjin, Samsung, Hyundai, Kia, LG, Sangyong) well protected by the government plus financial assistance. No wonder, in just afew years Korea have joined the elite club of rich nations-OECD (Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development).

Bayanihan spirit po lamang. alang tutulong sa atin kundi kapwa Pinoy. Hein, can you give positive comments? After hitting the PHUV project, can you suggest any alternative design for the PHUV just like what niky has done?

its so sad norkis closed its shop,its among the pioneers in motorcycle business,i am happy that there are filipinos like you,kaya lang parang lumilitaw na you are the PR man of mvpmap.i want you know that i have plan to buy a car but i hold it until the phuv launched.the phuv didnt even meet my worst expectation.i hope they improve it and i will see...

[oldblue]

sabi ko nga golf car na lang eh. magkano ba imported golf car 250k-400k?

mababaan pa yun pag tayo gumawa, sarap sarap pa mag-drive


ang ibig sabihin ng katagang "baby steps", start small. look at Hyundai, Kia, in the 90's puro small compact cars lang. ngaun lang sila nag-venture sa SUV. even yun Honda civic noon late 70's eh 2-door na mini-car lang

baka naman kaya PHuV ang pinilit na gawin ng MVPMAP eh dahil yun din ang mga parts na binebenta nila sa Jap cars. if ganun, wag na lang MVPMAP.

sa DOST na lang o isang school foundation magsimula ang research on first Philippine car. sa Mec Eng namin sa DLSU noon gumawa kami ng 3 wheeled red car eh. mukang lamborghini ang harap tapos sa likod isang gulong. tadpole lamborghini nga ang dating hehehe but the prototype runs.


-----

right now, our mech eng dept were given until Oct 2007 to produce Sinag - the first Philippine solar car to be featured sa Australian Solar challenge.

[jpdm]

Hi RMB!

naku, hindi po napakalayo. Alam yan ni DPROX na kapitbahay ko lang..hehe Dapat nga sa ginagawa kong ito may medalya o kahit pa kape-hin lang (3in1 lang kasi masarap kape sa aming province binibili nga ng FIGARO e)ako ng MVPMAP. Pro bono na nga ito, yari pa ako sa fellow Tsikoteer pag minsan mabigat ang mga posts ko.

Hoy, MVPMAP, pakaayos kayo (o ayan RMB)!paano kami bibili kung mukhang gorilla yung prototype (sabi yan ng foreign media ha, di ako).

Anyway, as a consolation nga, my friend told me, naisama na ata sa global automotive index ang PHUV! WOw, kasama ng mga world class autos?

Wait...hmmm...hoy, MVPMAP! mahiya naman kayo sa amin, tinawag na PHilippine vehicle yan, ibig sabihin sa ayaw namin at sa hindi, reflection ng lahi natin yan. ayusin nyo naman!

Ano na sasabihin ko sa mga kaibigan kong foreigners (yung taga meteor garden kong kaibigan, bilib pa naman sa atin Pinoy. nag-invest nga sa Gen San e) sa pinoy nga yari na e!

Shape up or ship out!!!!

Anyway, You have my 110% support MVPMAP, for the industry, for the country.

[oldblue]

the main problem with MVPMAP is conflict of interest. why would they build a PHuV to compete with their true source of income? eh di pag nag-succeed ang PHuv, pull-out kagad mga Jap clients nila. can they afford this?

[jpdm]

well, palagay ko cguro hindi mag-pull out kaagad mga Nihon jin. Multi-billion na investments nila tulad ng Toyota at Honda.maari pa ang ISUzu o Nissan (pero ang Taiwanese subsidiary ng Nissan ang may hawak sa Pinas).

marami na rin silang mga supplier na nag tayo dito, fujitsu ten (car stereo), denso (instrument panel), Sanden (aircon),Toyota autoparts (transmission), so mahirap na basta-basta mag-pack up yan.

Yung mga nasa IEs (Industrial estates), SEZs (Special Economic Zones) na exporters, maari pa, kasi ang mga kompanya dyan (Japanese, Korean etc) parng turistang back packers lang--pag di kumita, isasara nalang factory lipad sa ibang lugar. Example, yung ang reebok, nike, giordano alam ko dito sa kabite gawa yan.pero asan na? yun China o Vietnam na.mahal labor dito o konti na nabili sa Pinas sa dami ng fakes ngayon (orig 3500 nike, peke 300.layo no)

Ang positive scenario pag humataw ang PHUV, may ready market ang autoparts. Actually, halos exported ang autoparts gawa sa atin. Example, one of the biggest Japanese auto wiring harness exporter ng Pinas nandito sa Imus, Cavite ay 100% ata exported ang production, so di nakadepende sa domestic market. Kung humataw PHUV, puede ngang extra income sa kanila.

Anyway, grabe salasalabit ang auto industry, pag umusbong PHUV at naka-establish tayo niche, magkandarapa yang mga Bioman, Pokemon at Ragnarok dito Pinas. Puede pa natin matalo Malaysia o Thailand sa laki ng market (88 million and counting. grabe Pinoy no, nagbrown-out lang, may baby kaagad) natin, second to Indonesia (120 million ata).

mapipilitan silang maki-join uli (yan ata history ng AUV dito pinas) sa segment na very close sa puso ng PInoy, mga multi-purpose, family vehicles. Yung 2 seater para lang sa mga individualistic, nuclear family centered Western societies (lesson namin sa Sociology) yan. Dito pag-nag-outing kasama buong angkan, pag naghatid airport kasama pati lolo sa talampakan...hehe.

[ogpro]

Iwasan na yung ugaling "Pwede na yan........"

YES PLEASE.

When designing our flagship airgun, we took no shortcuts, we imported materials, and we spent a LOT to make sure it was as close to perfect as we can get.Then..

We priced it below our closest competitor who used all locally sourced products, underpaid his workers, had no tech advances, and charged an arm and a leg for his airgun. Why? Because we had something to prove. It hurt our bottom line, but we felt the filipino airgunner deserved the best at prices they could afford. That was more important to us than making a quick buck.

Hindi pwede sa akin yung "Pwede na yan..."


The bottom line is, if you're not greedily profit oriented, then it can be done. We're living proof that you can make a decent living by giving a quality product without pricing it beyond reach.

[jpdm]

The buzz created by the PHUV of MVPMAP got the attention of CAMPI (hmm...kampi sa Japon, Korea at US?hehe)Anyway, its seems the idea of a PHUV (must be world-class, high-quality and locally made with brand new parts at 350T-500T. sana galing sa PHUV Tsikot team yung model. Gusto ko yung pinakahuling drawing ni Oyil, a cross between Everest and Land rover ata.)) as a dedicated market for the majority of the Filipino population (70%), compelled CAMPI to ask the government for assistance. (ha?kala ko ba puro mga bigboys yan?kala ko ba dominant sila?bakit humihingi ng incentives?kala ko ba sa dami ng endorsers nila they can do it on there own?they have the best models--gusto ko crosswind xuv--bakit ngayon hingi government support?).

The problem with CAMPI is that they really do not support the local industry. They mostly sell CBUs and not CKDs. Kung may CKD, battery at gulong lang lokal, ala na ito.Ang mahal ng mga units nila for ordinary people like me. Kahit kumikita ako 40k, magdidildil pa rin ako ng
asin sa amortization. Mahal ang parts nila, pag casa, brake fluid lang, taga talaga. grabe, kaya ang mahal ng maintenance. Paano ang majority ng Pinoy na gustong magka-sasakyan gawa nila?

So, ayan less than 30% ng market na-ko-cover nila. Sa almost 100,000 na nabenta nila last year, puro pa ata may ari ng taxi bumili o rent-a-car firm. Sustainable ba ka nyo? hindi.Magsasara talaga mga factories nila. E mahigit 150,000 ata registered new vehicles last year. Saan nanggaling difference na 50,000? SUvic at mom-and-pop local assemblers yung balance. Thats almost a third of the total new vehicles registered for 2006.

Ok yan, dapat ganun na nga mangyari. ang liit ng market for 500k-above vehicles puro imported CBUs pa.

tama yung business model sa motorcycle market, pasukin ng quality but affordable models from China. Kaya ayun nagbagsak presyo mga Japanese models. kung may economies of scale, dapat, with government intervention and plain business sense, dito dapat i-manufacture at manggaling piyesa dahil maraming magkakatrabaho, mas lalaki ang consumer base. Kung hapon, chinese at koreano, thailander, malaysian kikita dahil sa import-- kanino mo ibebenta produkto mo? sa na lay-off na taga norkis, sarao, fmc, MVPMAP at ibang pang patay na industriya dito. wag nila laging iasa sa OFW, may iba rin pinagkakagastusan yan. O sa less than 5% of the population na kasama sa A-B market?

Ang piyesa naman di na kailangan na imported e. Basta may quality ok. ISO, TUV, BPS marked dapat lahat ng local parts para may kalidad. With that more jobs, larger consumer base. Malinaw naman sa Circular flow of economic activity kung ang productive activities confined within an economy e. Give and take lang.

11 car firms with numerous models in a small market?talo talaga.

PHUV is the answer. pag pumatok ang PHUV at maging cash cow (sa dami ba namang transport groups dito Pinas. konti lang naman may sasakyan dito.mas maraming nag-co-commute)mag-consolidate market, ala banking sector-uso merging.

With that mauulit na naman yung glory days ng local AUV (Carter, Anfra etc.)--with high local content. In response, lalabas uli ang models from CAMPI ( nuon, FX, BIDA, Highlander) with high local content at mas mura.


Masaya na naman ang Pinoy!!!!

[elmoro]

Hello to Everyone,

Am a newbie in this site and I must admit I've been a lurker eversince. I've been waiting for the PhUV since it was announced months back. (First saw PhUV thread in www.skyscraper.com).

Buy locally made or assembled car? Yes I will and why not. But, the PhUV launched last June 12? Now way amigo. Every cent counts. Quality doesn't mean higher cost, hence higher sticker price. "Quality means keeping your promises".

Take for example Casio calculator products then vs. Texas calculators.

I think there's still hope for the PhUV. The "creators" though should underake serious research and benchmarking. The government must take active role, not just take photo ops.

For example, the gov't. can ask the "creators" of PhUV to design and produce service cars for the civilian and military branch of service. That way the gov't can standardize maintenance of gov't vehicles be it in parts or service. (Di tulad ngayon pa bonggahan mga gov't agencies, sari saring service vehicles, may lakas loob pang dalhin ng mga kupal na directors sa kasalan, binyagan, sundo ng anak sa skool... OT na ata... sorry). That way the gov't will be able to show tangible support to the project. Just like in the States before, they have uniform or standard design for police cars and federal service vehicles.

Anyway, I enjoy reading exchange of ideas in this thread. Let's all hope we can make the PhUV fly someday... Peace

[orly_andico]

OT.

I drive a Mazda. Made in Santa Rosa. My understanding is that, Ford and Mazda at least, do a significant amount of work in Santa Rosa.

Hinda yung "gulong at battery lang ang local." Believe it or not, in addition to brand loyalty, the "made in Santa Rosa" bit did influence my decision by a bit. Not a lot.

That correct?

BTW Indonesia has 240 Million people. Not 120 million. And probably 60% to 70% of their cars are the 1st gen Kijang, 2nd gen Kijang, 3rd gen Kijang, or Avanza. I kid you not. Wala ka halos makitang Corolla or Civic dun (sa Jakarta at least).