Sabah Standoff Issues

[Ry_Tower]

Dagdag na pampagulo! hehehe

Another claimant says he?s the true sultan of Sulu | Inquirer Global Nation

[robsem]

Correct me if I'm wrong, the sultan of Sulu eventually somehow "transfer" its claim in favor of the Philippine government during Macapagal's presidency.

from an article from a previous post...

continuation...
The Sultanate of Sulu had ceased to exist when every inch of its territory was ceded on Sept 12, 1962 to the government of the Philippines and as the successor-in-title of the defunct sultanate, it is entitled to reclaim Sabah which is at all material times rightfully theirs.

after ng Sabah conflict na ito, mas lalo wala papansin sa Pilipinas at rerespeto sa kanyang mga claims (ie, spratlys, Scarborough Shoal, etc). Dahil alam ng lahat na all bark-no bite ang Pilipinas. Kung ang lehitimong pag mamay ari nya willing syang isacrifice dahil sa takot sa gyera ang gobyerno at kanyang mga tao, paano nalang yung mga claims nya na hindi sigurado? Buti pa mga vietnamese willing magpa massacre sa chinese maipag laban lang ang kanilang teritoryo sa spratlys. may nakuha mang part ang chinese, at least hindi lahat nakuha. yung claims natin, asa ka pa na may katiting pa tayo makukuha. lol

it's so funny na mabasa mo mga iba dito kung paano nila ipagtanggol ang dear cars nila. ayaw ng may ibang sumasakay, ayaw masagi, madumihan, etc. and yet wala pakialam na yung parte ng bansa nila kinukuha na ng ibang lahi.

base sa mga sagot ng iba, makikita mo kung gaano ka self/family oriented mga pinoys. wala sila pakialam sa paligid nila hanggat hindi sila nappwerwisyo o ang kanilang pamilya. as long as hindi sila ma inconvenience, wala issues. wala din pakialam hanggat alam nila wala sila makukuhang kapalit. bahag ang buntot pag alam na dehado sa labanan. saka lang sila may pakialam kung maapektuhan na ang pansariling interest. lol.

magmula sa gyera ng kastila, amerika, at japan, makikita mo ang hindi pagkakaisa ng mga pinoy. dami makapili at traydor. basta lang mabigyan ng pabuya at maligtas ang sarili at pamilya, babaligtad ang ibang pinoy. hehe

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kung talagang pagmamay ari ng malaysia ang sabah, bakit sila nagbabayad sa sultan/pilipinas ng yearly fee? bakit may contrata? kung talagang sa kanila yun, wala dapat contrata, walang yearly fee. wala sila pakialam dapat.

siguro kaya willing din silang mag all out war kasi ito na yung hinihintay nilang chance para makuha totally yung sabah. laki siguro pasalamat nila kay kiram sa isip isip nila. dahil pagkatapos ng gulo, wala na mangangahas pang questionin ang kanilang claims sa sabah. magiging legitimate part na ito ng malaysia. at wala gagawin ang pinas magmula ngayon dahil alam ng lahat bahag ang buntot nito. lol

my 2 cents.

[stickers]

base sa mga sagot ng iba, makikita mo kung gaano ka self/family oriented mga pinoys. wala sila pakialam sa paligid nila hanggat hindi sila nappwerwisyo o ang kanilang pamilya. as long as hindi sila ma inconvenience, wala issues. wala din pakialam hanggat alam nila wala sila makukuhang kapalit. bahag ang buntot pag alam na dehado sa labanan. saka lang sila may pakialam kung maapektuhan na ang pansariling interest. lol.

magmula sa gyera ng kastila, amerika, at japan, makikita mo ang hindi pagkakaisa ng mga pinoy. dami makapili at traydor. basta lang mabigyan ng pabuya at maligtas ang sarili at pamilya, babaligtad ang ibang pinoy. hehe

=========

kung talagang pagmamay ari ng malaysia ang sabah, bakit sila nagbabayad sa sultan/pilipinas ng yearly fee? bakit may contrata? kung talagang sa kanila yun, wala dapat contrata, walang yearly fee. wala sila pakialam dapat.

siguro kaya willing din silang mag all out war kasi ito na yung hinihintay nilang chance para makuha totally yung sabah. laki siguro pasalamat nila kay kiram sa isip isip nila. dahil pagkatapos ng gulo, wala na mangangahas pang questionin ang kanilang claims sa sabah. magiging legitimate part na ito ng malaysia. at wala gagawin ang pinas magmula ngayon dahil alam ng lahat bahag ang buntot nito. lol

my 2 cents.

that's how it goes nowadays, you don't fght a war you don't win... patriotism has died along with the heroes you find on your coins.

BTT: I don't see anywhere near that Malaysia would sit down and talk, Phils has cut its ties with Malaysia long long ago, so why talk now? Malaysia will just use force until they have killed every Filipino in Sabah, and we are just left here watching the sidelines.

[robsem]

that's how it goes nowadays, you don't fght a war you don't win... patriotism has died along with the heroes you find on your coins.

BTT: I don't see anywhere near that Malaysia would sit down and talk, Phils has cut its ties with Malaysia long long ago, so why talk now? Malaysia will just use force until they have killed every Filipino in Sabah, and we are just left here watching the sidelines.

ito ang pansin ko sa karamihan ng ating mga kababayang pinoy. mahilig manood/makimiron lang sa kaganapan sa kanyang paligid. walang aksyong gagawin sa kanyang paligid hanggat hindi naapektuhan ang pansariling interest. hindi ko naman nilalahat. pero karamihan ngayon ganyan sila.

di ba hanggang ngayon pinupursue parin naman ng Pilipinas yung claim nya sa sabah (hindi nga lang priority) sa international court or kung saan pa man? at yung malaysia ang ayaw makipag cooperate? kung talagang sayo ang isang bagay, kahit saan pa man mapunta willing kang patunayan ito. pero kung hindi ka sigurado, most likely ayaw mo din makipag cooperate.

conspiracy theory. Baka nga sila din mismo malaysian naghimok/nagsulsol sa mga kirams na lumusob sa sabah dahil alam nila na wala naman gagawing aksyon ang gobyerbo ng pilipinas. para kung madurog na mga kirams, sa malaysia na talaga ang sabah. di ba may sabi sabi mag eexpire na contract nila. pagnatapos itong conflict, wala na renewal mangyayari. legitimate owner na sila nung sabah. lol

palitan na din pala dapat yung lyrics ng Lupang Hinirang since hindi na din naman tugma sa panahon yung mensahe. Panahon pa yung ng mga bayani natin na patay na. Dapat alisin/palitan na yung part na "Duyan ka nang magiting...Sa manlulupig di ka pasisiil...Aming ligaya na pag may mang-aapi ang mamatay ng dahil sayo"...dahil wala naman handang magtanggol at magpakamatay sa atin dahil alam natin na dehado tayo sa labanan. hehe

[badkuk]

My question still stands: are you willing to fight, to die for sabah? If yes, good for you. In fact, why not join the "struggle"? You've talked the talk, now walk the walk.... If you don't, you're just part of the crowd na nanonood at nagmimiron, letting other people fight for your beliefs.

Btw, we do care about what's happening in sabah. If we didn't this thread would have been ignored and forgotten. We are concerned how things may escalate and spread. We care about what will happen to our country, our families...coz the people who caused this mess obviously don't.

If you consider not fighting for sabah un-nationalistic, then i say starting a war over it knowing full well your military's "strength", knowing the quality of the people you are fighting with, is not only strategically idiotic, it is irresponsible, sending men, your country's most precious resource, to certain death. You wanna martyr Filipino soldiers? I say you step up and lead by example.

If by some miracle we do reclaim sabah through force...you think it will just stop there? It's easy to say forgive and forget, but in practice people seldom do. That's why wars go on for generations. That's why we should be careful in starting one.

[Syuryuken]

ito ang pansin ko sa karamihan ng ating mga kababayang pinoy. mahilig manood/makimiron lang sa kaganapan sa kanyang paligid. walang aksyong gagawin sa kanyang paligid hanggat hindi naapektuhan ang pansariling interest. hindi ko naman nilalahat. pero karamihan ngayon ganyan sila.

di ba hanggang ngayon pinupursue parin naman ng Pilipinas yung claim nya sa sabah (hindi nga lang priority) sa international court or kung saan pa man? at yung malaysia ang ayaw makipag cooperate? kung talagang sayo ang isang bagay, kahit saan pa man mapunta willing kang patunayan ito. pero kung hindi ka sigurado, most likely ayaw mo din makipag cooperate.

conspiracy theory. Baka nga sila din mismo malaysian naghimok/nagsulsol sa mga kirams na lumusob sa sabah dahil alam nila na wala naman gagawing aksyon ang gobyerbo ng pilipinas. para kung madurog na mga kirams, sa malaysia na talaga ang sabah. di ba may sabi sabi mag eexpire na contract nila. pagnatapos itong conflict, wala na renewal mangyayari. legitimate owner na sila nung sabah. lol

palitan na din pala dapat yung lyrics ng Lupang Hinirang since hindi na din naman tugma sa panahon yung mensahe. Panahon pa yung ng mga bayani natin na patay na. Dapat alisin/palitan na yung part na "Duyan ka nang magiting...Sa manlulupig di ka pasisiil...Aming ligaya na pag may mang-aapi ang mamatay ng dahil sayo"...dahil wala naman handang magtanggol at magpakamatay sa atin dahil alam natin na dehado tayo sa labanan. hehe

nakakatawa ka. ikaw na rin nagsabi nasa international court na ang kaso hintayin na lang kung anong desisyon. Natuto na ang mga tunay na Pinoy.

[yapoy86]

kaya madami nagsasabi na mga bopols yung naka paligid kay Pnoy regardin sabah issue.... ang mali kasi nila nag announce sila na "mga taga supporta ni kiram na nandyan sa sabah... mag si balik na kayo dito para lahat kayo ay masampahan namin ng kaso".. eh kung ganyan ang gobyerno sa tingin nyo babalik pa sila?? pag nasa sabah sila pwede sila mamatay pag balik dito kaso ang aabutin at malamang eh patayin din (nang agaw daw ng baril hehehe) inadmit naman ni Pnoy na partly kasalanan din nila kasi lumalabas inisnob nila yung letter ni kiram due to bureaucratic maze...

[Ry_Tower]

^Teka, hindi naman sila yung sinasabi ni PNoy na kaksuhan technically. Yung mga nasa likod ng kalukuhang ito.

Dapat talaga hintayin na lang decision sa International Court.

Una, hindi dapat daanin sa dahas mga bagay-bagay. Pangalawa, huwag na huwag kang pupunta sa laban na hindi mo kayang ipanalo. Ibang bagay yung ikaw nag-umpisa (gaya ng ginawa ni Kiram) at yung ikaw ang unang minamaltrato at dahil sukdulan na, lalaban ka na kahit alanganin ka (yan kahit hindi ka mananalo sa laban, tamang lumaban na IMHO).

[hein]

This is what the PH Military really is.

Now would you really want to go to war?

[Syuryuken]

Comparison:





pulot lang di ko alam kung tama

[stickers]

magandang laban naman pala eh.. see how much oil reserves Malaysia has? Sino ba di magkakainteres sa ganyan...

[Monseratto]

This thread is going in circles...too many armchair generals...more popcorn please.

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Gerbo]

Let us review the facts.

1. Malaysia does not really want to submit to the ICJ because of the high probability of losing the case.

2. Many Filipinos in Sabah actually yearn for Malaysian citizenship.

This is really an issue ripe for an armed conflict if both sides would assert its stands.

Question? Is the Philippines ready for war?

There is actually more to gain than lose in this struggle.
1. natural resources
2 we can actually carve a new "homeland for our fellow muslims"

[holdencaulfield]

i don't care!

[Gerbo]

i don't care!

Yeah. just being true to yourself. Like JDS pet.

[Altis6453]

If its a legitimate claim, whether they drag the country to war, my point is at least they have the guts to fight for it.. Unlike the gov't who has done nothing to pursue what should be ours... The next thing you know, the whole country's taken over by another race... Phils is bullied because we are weak to defend ourselves and even weaker letting it happen.

If I were in the President's position, Pinoy pa rin yang mga yan. An act should be done to protect them and avoid all-out war with Malaysia at the same time.. Kirams wants to talk and if Malaysia doesn't honor that, who is there to mediate? US? China? UN? Eh anu pa pakialam nila dun... Its just the same thing China is doing to us.. we want to be heard yet the other party has deaf ears.. so what do you do? Let it pass for how many more decades or even century?





That's my point, armed militia can survive Malaysia's army attacks. eh dyan sila nagtraining eh.. probably the guns they now used were even donated by Malaysia..

Then again, my views don't mean a thing to anybody else. I do not move to change your minds.. I just hope the war doesn't reach our shores and each one of us would say, it's already to late... kasi like oliver said.. hati tayo ng opinyon pero walang may gusto ng gyera.. pero pano kung nandyan na mismo sa labas ng bahay mo, nadamay na pamilya mo, tingin nyo ba may pipiliin pa mga yan.. none of us have lived the era of war that's maybe the reason why no one's willing to stand up for his country.

This thread is going in circles...too many armchair generals...more popcorn please.

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Not to mention too many would be "heroes" on the forum like stickers who want to want to join the Royal Army in Sabah.

[badkuk]

Ok, wag na natin pag usapan kung sino ang me rightful claim sa sabah.

Let's say we got to war with Malaysia over Sabah, how do we do it? How do we defend against reprisals from Malaysia? How do you gain local support from the Sabah locals? What about logistics? Bear in mind there is a sea between Sabah and PH(or more accurately, the autonomous region), while Malaysians can basically walk into Sabah? Heck, they can park their artillery well within its undisputed borders and make a crater out of Sabah.

Amateurs study strategy, experts study logistics, and fools rush in studying neither.

Sige, pag usapan natin. Go.

[Altis6453]

Ok, wag na natin pag usapan kung sino ang me rightful claim sa sabah.

Let's say we got to war with Malaysia over Sabah, how do we do it? How do we defend against reprisals from Malaysia? How do you gain local support from the Sabah locals? What about logistics? Bear in mind there is a sea between Sabah and PH(or more accurately, the autonomous region), while Malaysians can basically walk into Sabah? Heck, they can park their artillery well within its undisputed borders and make a crater out of Sabah.

Amateurs study strategy, experts study logistics, and fools run in without studying neither.

Sige, pag usapan natin. Go.

QFT. I just hope people can tell the difference.

[badkuk]

um...slightly OT, edited my post due to grammar:

Amateurs study strategy, experts study logistics, and fools rush in studying neither

double negatives...tricky. soweee :p

[holdencaulfield]

que horror!