Sabah Standoff Issues

[iOz]

Anyone has thought about this issues? Please your more than welcome to share. Honestly, someone said Royal Sultanate Army are mainly compose of MILF, MNLF and Abu Sayyaf?

[Manilablock]

Anyone has thought about this issues? Please your more than welcome to share. Honestly, someone said Royal Sultanate Army are mainly compose of MILF, MNLF and Abu Sayyaf?

Sino ba ang tunay na Filipino?

Ung ipinaglalaban ang karapan nya sa lupang pag-aari nya? O unang iisipin ang opinion ng mga banyaga?

Saan ba tunay na mababasa ang kasaysayan ng Pilipinas? ito pa ba ay itunuturo pa sa paaralan?

Ang Sabah ay hindi pag aari ng Gobyerno ng Pilipinas, ito ay pag-aari ng ng isang Pamilyang Pilipino.

Nararapat bang ipagtangol ng Pamahalan ng Pilipinas ang karapatan sa lupa ng Pamilyang Pilipinong ito?

O tama lang na sila ay itinataboy sa sarili nilang lupa ng mga lahing banyaga?

[Gerbo]

We should have asserted the Sabah claimed long before. Even if it meant going to war with the British. Losing a war with England would have meant membership with the Commonwealth. Perhaps, we might be better off than we are today.

[hein]

We should have asserted the Sabah claimed long before. Even if it meant going to war with the British. Losing a war with England would have meant membership with the Commonwealth. Perhaps, we might be better off than we are today.

Yan ang problema if your military is Weak.

You get pushed around by everyone. The Brits then, now the Chinese and the Malaysians.

[xninjax]

Marcos planned to invade and reclaim back Sabah in the 70's if I'm not mistaken. I used to hear stories from my uncle who was part of the commando unit trained supposedly for the mission

I suppose we had a bad-ass military back then compared to our neighbors

Philippine Daily Inquirer - Google News Archive Search

[Ry_Tower]

Marcos planned to invade and reclaim back Sabah in the 70's if I'm not mistaken. I used to hear stories from my uncle who was part of the commando unit trained supposedly for the mission

I suppose we had a bad-ass military back then compared to our neighbors

Philippine Daily Inquirer - Google News Archive Search

I have to concur on this, may plan nga si Marcos. Hindi ata natuloy because he was focused na on declaring Martial law.

Kuwento nga nang mga elders in the military.

[hein]

Marcos planned to invade and reclaim back Sabah in the 70's if I'm not mistaken. I used to hear stories from my uncle who was part of the commando unit trained supposedly for the mission

I suppose we had a bad-ass military back then compared to our neighbors]

Since when did we have a bad-ass military?

Malaysia finished off their communist insurgency in 3 years, tayo more than 40 years hindi pa tapos.

Mahina ang PH military, and everyone in the region knows that, especially China.

[dr. d]

We should have asserted the Sabah claimed long before. Even if it meant going to war with the British. Losing a war with England would have meant membership with the Commonwealth. Perhaps, we might be better off than we are today.

based on the record of british colony-caring in asia, india, and the middle east, the philippines would probably be three independent states now, based on luzon, visayas, and mindanao... heh heh.

[chrismarte]

Marcos planned to invade and reclaim back Sabah in the 70's if I'm not mistaken. I used to hear stories from my uncle who was part of the commando unit trained supposedly for the mission

I suppose we had a bad-ass military back then compared to our neighbors

Philippine Daily Inquirer - Google News Archive Search

I have to concur on this, may plan nga si Marcos. Hindi ata natuloy because he was focused na on declaring Martial law.

Kuwento nga nang mga elders in the military.

nakita ko sa FB, na ang plano talaga ni Macoy eh talagang bantayan ang Sabah, ang ginawa ni Ninoy sinabi sa Malaysian Government yung plano ni macoy kaya ayun massacre ang inabot. "Jabidah" massacre ata yun

[falken]

nakita ko sa FB, na ang plano talaga ni Macoy eh talagang bantayan ang Sabah, ang ginawa ni Ninoy sinabi sa Malaysian Government yung plano ni macoy kaya ayun massacre ang inabot. "Jabidah" massacre ata yun

I still remember my dad's and uncles' story of how Ninoy divulged Marcos' plan to retake Sabah. Which subsequently led to the Jabidah Massacre.

[iOz]

Who is behind this? Is there any conspiracy between the Sulu Sultanate and the present or previous administration? Kanino ba aligned si Nur Misuari? Most are MNLF fighters that the Crown Prince claimed belongs to his Royal Army.

[Altis6453]

Some thoughts on this...

1. If there is historic title or valid claim to the territory, then the PH should explore the possibility of reacquiring Sabah.

2. Much of PH history taught in schools, and even foreign policy is vague towards what Sabah really is. The only other mention of Sabah was when FM allegedly formed a strike force composed of young muslim soldiers to stage a landing on Sabah and enforce the PH claim...only for that episode to end in what was to be known as the Jabidah Massacre.

3. That said, there is a right time and the right channels to pursue the claim over Sabah, and it would have to involve international organizations like the U.N.

4. What the followers of the Sultan of Sulu did by transporting their armed "Royal Guards" to Sabah can be treated as an act of agression against territory presently held and administered by Malaysia which Malaysia has every right to repel.

5. PNoy's public statements really does not lend itself to resolving the situation since it gives no way out to Kiram's followers who are threatened with prosecution if they do return to the PH.

[Tj_abs]

Solar news: The Sultanate of Sulu's claim over Sabah dates back to 1878 when the Sultan of Borneo gave a piece of land to Sultan Jamul Ahlam of Sulu in exchange for some services, according to to Reymar Yson, history professor at the National Teachers College.
The transfer of ownership was documented with an agreement between the two sultans.
That piece of land was North Borneo, which is now called Sabah.
“Borneo po kasi humihingi ng tulong sa atin, either within tribal wars, or sa pangangayaw o head hunting," Yson said. "Nagkaroon ng union ngayon ang Sultan of Borneo and Sultan of Sulu. Kung baga, for giving them backup, binigay satin yung Sabah [Borneo once asked for our help, either within tribal wars, or in head hunting. So a union was formed between the Sultan of Borneo and the Sultan of Sulu. It’s was like, for giving them backup, they gave Sabah to us].�
Since then, all the other groups who stayed in Sabah would pay the Sultanate for a lease on the territory.
In fact, he added, another document in 1903 was made, this time to record an increase in the amount of lease to be paid the Sultanate.
These documents have been translated into at least three languages - Tausug, English, and Spanish - which President Benigno Aquino III said complicated the Philippines' claim over Sabah because some translations might not have been accurate.
But Yson said that one word found in all documents, in all translations, would show that the Sultanate owns Sabah. The word is padyak.
"Sa parehong dokumento, malinaw yung term na padyak," Yson said. "Kung susundin talaga pakahulugan ng padyak, ibig sabihin nun lease. So inuupahan lang nila sa atin [In both documents, the term padyak is clear. If we would strictly follow what ‘padyak’ means, it means lease. Definitely, they are only leasing from us],� he said.
But despite having documents, the Sultanate would later find it difficult to assert its claim because of succeeding events.
For one, a big chunk of lease payments stopped after World War II, when both the Philippines and Malaysia focused on their own rehabilitation.
Another problem was when the Philippines established its Exclusive Economic Zone in 1982.
“Nagkaroon ng UN sea laws, particularly yung Exclusive Economic Zones," Yson said. "Hindi sinama sa Pilipinas ang Sabah. Tapos ngayon ang Sabah, dahil sa EEZ, ang Sabah talagang napunta na sa Malaysia. Pero because of the ancestral domain claim, talagang ayaw i-give up ng Sulu yun [There came into existence the UN Sea Laws, particularly the Exclusive Economic Zones. Sabah was not included as part of the Philippines. Sabah instead went to Malaysian. But because of the ancestral domain claim, the Sulu Sultanate refused to give it up]"
He said this was probably the reason that past administrations did not pay much attention to the claim to Sabah, for fear that it might just complicate the country's international relations.
There's also an issue of who the real claimants are - a matter President Aquino admitted is part of the ongoing extensive study of the claim.
“From Sultan Jamalul Kiram II, whose reign or term ended in 1936, I understand he did not have any direct heirs," the President said. ."And they have at least five people who are claiming to be the Sultan of Sulu. So that is one of my first problems. Who actually represents the Sultanate of Sulu?�
Sultan Jamalul Kiram II was the last direct heir of Sultan Jamal Ahlam, but his reign ended when he died in 1936.
President Aquino said that Kiram II's brother, Sultan Mawallil Wasit II, who was supposed to take over, died even before he could be crowned.
Sultan Wasit II had no heirs either.
The current sultan, Sultan Jamalul Kiram III, is the grandnephew of Sultan Wasit II.
But Yson said that the issue of family lineage shouldn't affect the claim - as it just all boils down to the entire Sultanate.
“Culturally, alam naman natin na kapag walang anak, yung next kin ang pwedeng umupo," he said. "Ganun sa Sultanate. Because of that, may claim pa rin yung mga kamag-anak kahit sabihin mong childless yung isa [Culturally, we know that the Sultan is childless, then the kin would inherit the throne. That is how it works for the Sultanate. Because of that, the relatives still have claims, even if one says he is childless].�
Another reason why the Aquino administration seems hesitant to assert the claim over Sabah is that Malaysia has become such a close ally that it might strain their good relationship. Source: solar news by ina andalong.

[oliver1013]

Di na nga natin mabantayan yung walang pagalinlangang territoryo talaga natin, sasawsaw pa tayo sa medyo malabo...

[iOz]

Malaysia wise not to attack sultanate’s men
By Ramon Tulfo
Philippine Daily Inquirer
12:37 am | Thursday, February 28th, 2013

The ultimatum given by the Malaysian authorities to the men of the Sultanate of Sulu who are holed up in a village in Sabah expired at midnight of Tuesday, Feb. 26.

But Malaysian police and military forces surrounding the village didn’t attack as expected when the ultimatum ended.

The Malaysians are wise to make such a drastic move against people who belong to the Tausugs of Sulu and Tawi-Tawi, a tribe of Filipino Muslims that considers fighting a way of life.

The Tausugs (or Tausog, meaning people of the sea current) revere the Sulu sultanate which ruled them for centuries until the coming of the Americans at the beginning of the 20th century.

They believe in the cause of their sultanate even if its power of life and death over its subjects has become dormant for more than a century now.

If the men and women led by Raja Muda Agbimuddin Kiram, who were sent by Sultan Jamalul Kiram III, are harmed, the people in Sulu and Tawi-Tawi and the Tausugs in Sabah would take up arms against the Malaysian government.

In the event a Tausug revolt against Malaysia takes place, most Tausugs in Sabah will harbor or fight with the warriors from Sulu and Tawi-Tawi. Sabah is only one hour by speedboat from Tawi-Tawi.

From my source close to the sultanate, 2,500 armed Tausugs are in Sabah. Most of them belong to the Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF) whose founder, Nur Misuari, traces his lineage to the sultanate.

The armed men from Sulu and Tawi-Tawi landed in the Malaysian state even before Sultan Kiram and his group arrived in Sabah.

At the height of the furor over the landing last week, about 150 MNLF armed regulars from Palawan landed in Sabah, according to very reliable sources. Although the Malaysian and Philippine navies guard the boundary between the two countries, it is easy to cross the border.

This porous border contributed to the increase of the Tausug population in Sabah, with many who escaped the war between the government and the MNLF in the 1970s and ’80s settling down in the Malaysian state.

Malaysia is walking on a tightrope in the Sabah standoff.

* * *

His advisers should advise President Noy to refrain from making statements on the Sabah standoff that would hurt the sensibilities of the Tausugs. In trying to please Malaysia, the President might have another Tausug revolt in his hands.

The President said he would order the arrest of Sultan Jamalulu Kiram III if he didn’t withdraw his armed men from Sabah.

Such statements are counterproductive.

If the President doesn’t know it yet, the Tausug revolt in the 1970-1980s nearly resulted in the collapse of the Marcos government.

Guys this is interesting article from R.Tulfo.

[Altis6453]

Malaysia wise not to attack sultanate’s men
By Ramon Tulfo
Philippine Daily Inquirer
12:37 am | Thursday, February 28th, 2013

The ultimatum given by the Malaysian authorities to the men of the Sultanate of Sulu who are holed up in a village in Sabah expired at midnight of Tuesday, Feb. 26.

But Malaysian police and military forces surrounding the village didn’t attack as expected when the ultimatum ended.

The Malaysians are wise to make such a drastic move against people who belong to the Tausugs of Sulu and Tawi-Tawi, a tribe of Filipino Muslims that considers fighting a way of life.

The Tausugs (or Tausog, meaning people of the sea current) revere the Sulu sultanate which ruled them for centuries until the coming of the Americans at the beginning of the 20th century.

They believe in the cause of their sultanate even if its power of life and death over its subjects has become dormant for more than a century now.

If the men and women led by Raja Muda Agbimuddin Kiram, who were sent by Sultan Jamalul Kiram III, are harmed, the people in Sulu and Tawi-Tawi and the Tausugs in Sabah would take up arms against the Malaysian government.

In the event a Tausug revolt against Malaysia takes place, most Tausugs in Sabah will harbor or fight with the warriors from Sulu and Tawi-Tawi. Sabah is only one hour by speedboat from Tawi-Tawi.

From my source close to the sultanate, 2,500 armed Tausugs are in Sabah. Most of them belong to the Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF) whose founder, Nur Misuari, traces his lineage to the sultanate.

The armed men from Sulu and Tawi-Tawi landed in the Malaysian state even before Sultan Kiram and his group arrived in Sabah.

At the height of the furor over the landing last week, about 150 MNLF armed regulars from Palawan landed in Sabah, according to very reliable sources. Although the Malaysian and Philippine navies guard the boundary between the two countries, it is easy to cross the border.

This porous border contributed to the increase of the Tausug population in Sabah, with many who escaped the war between the government and the MNLF in the 1970s and ’80s settling down in the Malaysian state.

Malaysia is walking on a tightrope in the Sabah standoff.

* * *

His advisers should advise President Noy to refrain from making statements on the Sabah standoff that would hurt the sensibilities of the Tausugs. In trying to please Malaysia, the President might have another Tausug revolt in his hands.

The President said he would order the arrest of Sultan Jamalulu Kiram III if he didn’t withdraw his armed men from Sabah.

Such statements are counterproductive.

If the President doesn’t know it yet, the Tausug revolt in the 1970-1980s nearly resulted in the collapse of the Marcos government.

Guys this is interesting article from R.Tulfo.

Well, R. Tulfo is kidding himself if he thinks that "2,500 armed fighters, plus the entire clan of Tausugs" will easily scare off the Malaysians.

They're not up against a ragtag bunch of conscripts wearing uniforms and carrying rifles. Rather, it's an entire country's armed forces (army, air force, navy) against the so-called "Royal Army".

Tell me, what are they going to shoot back with if bombs start dropping and missles come flying?

[Tj_abs]

Since when did we have a bad-ass military?

Malaysia finished off their communist insurgency in 3 years, tayo more than 40 years hindi pa tapos.

Mahina ang PH military, and everyone in the region knows that, especially China.

Its just that politics do the talking. Actually alam ng paf, marines kung saan nagtatago mga communist sa mindanao. Sabi ng pinsan ko na pilot sa air force meron mga fly away zone sa mindanao dahil ang govt at rebel militants ay meron sila peace agreement kuno. Marami kasi hocus focus, corruption sa afp at potikos natin. So sad

[Tj_abs]

Malaysia wise not to attack sultanate’s men
By Ramon Tulfo
Philippine Daily Inquirer
12:37 am | Thursday, February 28th, 2013

The ultimatum given by the Malaysian authorities to the men of the Sultanate of Sulu who are holed up in a village in Sabah expired at midnight of Tuesday, Feb. 26.

But Malaysian police and military forces surrounding the village didn’t attack as expected when the ultimatum ended.

The Malaysians are wise to make such a drastic move against people who belong to the Tausugs of Sulu and Tawi-Tawi, a tribe of Filipino Muslims that considers fighting a way of life.

The Tausugs (or Tausog, meaning people of the sea current) revere the Sulu sultanate which ruled them for centuries until the coming of the Americans at the beginning of the 20th century.

They believe in the cause of their sultanate even if its power of life and death over its subjects has become dormant for more than a century now.

If the men and women led by Raja Muda Agbimuddin Kiram, who were sent by Sultan Jamalul Kiram III, are harmed, the people in Sulu and Tawi-Tawi and the Tausugs in Sabah would take up arms against the Malaysian government.

In the event a Tausug revolt against Malaysia takes place, most Tausugs in Sabah will harbor or fight with the warriors from Sulu and Tawi-Tawi. Sabah is only one hour by speedboat from Tawi-Tawi.

From my source close to the sultanate, 2,500 armed Tausugs are in Sabah. Most of them belong to the Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF) whose founder, Nur Misuari, traces his lineage to the sultanate.

The armed men from Sulu and Tawi-Tawi landed in the Malaysian state even before Sultan Kiram and his group arrived in Sabah.

At the height of the furor over the landing last week, about 150 MNLF armed regulars from Palawan landed in Sabah, according to very reliable sources. Although the Malaysian and Philippine navies guard the boundary between the two countries, it is easy to cross the border.

This porous border contributed to the increase of the Tausug population in Sabah, with many who escaped the war between the government and the MNLF in the 1970s and ’80s settling down in the Malaysian state.

Malaysia is walking on a tightrope in the Sabah standoff.

* * *

His advisers should advise President Noy to refrain from making statements on the Sabah standoff that would hurt the sensibilities of the Tausugs. In trying to please Malaysia, the President might have another Tausug revolt in his hands.

The President said he would order the arrest of Sultan Jamalulu Kiram III if he didn’t withdraw his armed men from Sabah.

Such statements are counterproductive.

If the President doesn’t know it yet, the Tausug revolt in the 1970-1980s nearly resulted in the collapse of the Marcos government.

Guys this is interesting article from R.Tulfo.

Kaya siguro madami tayo kapatid na muslim sa quiapo na walking distance lang sa malacanan dahil sa takot ni macoy na mag revolt ang mga tausug?

[SiRbossR]

Kaya siguro madami tayo kapatid na muslim sa quiapo na walking distance lang sa malacanan dahil sa takot ni macoy na mag revolt ang mga tausug?

umm... are you sure that those people are "Tausug" or are they "Maranaos?"

[vscntkI]

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