Gas saving device

[squala]

... which makes this advertisement a word-by-mouth thing, relying on verbal claims and testimonials. I want to see an actual demo of the claimed correct air-fuel mixture using proper devices.

[kiper]

Odee..ikaw ba nag send saking ng mga .txt files sa yahoo mail? I doubt it na ikaw ang nagsend, sa babae galing eh. Wala pa rin ba hanggang ngayon?


Squala..you hit the gold.

[Auto_Xer]

Originally posted by odeereambillo
Sir, san po ung testing center?

thanks & more POWER!

Odee

Dapat yung mga ginagamit ng emissions test center ay capable if the equiptment they bought were configured as 5 gas analyzers.
Most of them will probably have 4 gas analyzers which measure, HC, CO, CO2 & O2.
NOx is the 5th gas measured on a 5 gas analyzer.

If you really want to get your device tested, maybe you can ask/call up Mancor who has an office/service station at E.Rodriguez, near Hemady, which is pretty close to Inventhaus(?) in Timog, the distributor(?) of Khaos.

Mancor is a distributor of service shop equipment & afaik, they displayed a very advanced motor vehicle inspection service system either earlier this year or at last year's Transport Show in Megamall.
The MVIS they had also included emissions test equipment.
I don't recall if it was a 4 gas or 5 gas system but since they were "showing off" what's state of the art, I'm assumming they would've had the 5 gas anyalyzer.

When we test our vehicles for improvement in fuel economy we usually test it over at least a 1 month period, preferably longer, same consistent driver, same/similar traffic conditions, fuel from the same supplier, same state of vehicle tune.
Anyone in the interest of a similar test would probably do the same.

[empy]

i find this topic of conversation extremely funny.

the funniest part is Mr. Planas's claim of having "invented" this device, and that patents are supposedly pending in other countries. they aren't telling you one simple fact:

THERE ARE LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF THESE LEAN BURN DEVICES ON THE WORLD MARKET AND THEY HAVE BEEN SCAM...ESTE, SELLING THEM FOR DECADES.

i don't think i even had my license yet when my dad (a mechanical engineer by education) saw ads for this stuff the first time. i don't think i need to rehash the dozens of posts detailing why these devices have no scientific basis.

instead, let me present some commonly known facts:

1. the world auto industry spends more than the GDP of the Philippines in R&D
2. engineers and scientists with millennia of combined experience and education are employed by these companies
3. the internal combustion engine has been around for more than a century, which means all these engineers probably know all about how it works
4. the auto industry is taxed billions of dollars a year around the world by countries who demand it reduce emissions and improve fuel economy
5. car consumers have been proven to be willing to spend more money on autos that are more gas efficient, to avoid extra taxation and of course save fuel costs (especially true in Europe and the RP)


SO, given 1-5 above, please excuse me if i find it difficult to believe that some backyard inventor suddenly discovered the greatest thing in automotive science - something that the best engineers on the planet haven't been able to find for decades!! all engineers should just find new jobs then because they are obviously incompetent and stupid (sarcasm).

a few more questions: why are these devices never discussed in auto trade magazines, engineering publications, or even Popular Science? why, in the hundreds of infomercials, web and print ads that i've seen, i have never, EVER seen a scientific test to prove these claims?

bottom line: the auto industry KNOWS about lean burning engines, and knows that for general automotive applications they don't work.

bottom line #2: the US EPA has tested most of the US-market devices and not one of them posted significant fuel economy gains. feel free to look it up if you don't believe me.

[niky]

I've sent the following letter to two car companies in the interest of fair information:

It has come to our car club's attention that one of your dealers is
selling a device called the "Khaos Super Turbo Charger", ostensibly a
gas-saving device which bypasses the mass-air-flow sensor on the
vehicle and leans out the air-fuel mixture to supposedly reduce gas
consumption.

This device has not been tested under strenous and scientific testing
conditions, and the inventor and distributor of the device repeatedly
fail to mention nitrous oxide emissions, which are a known problem of
devices of this nature, while boasting about improved HC and CO
emissions (of which claims are dubious). Until the manufacturer
produces independently-verifiable testing results and NOx data, all
claims appear dubious.

Furthermore, some members of our club, who have actually installed the
said device, have complained that the device has caused poor running
due to interference with the MAF sensor on the Ford Lynx. Aside from
this interference, it is in the opinion of our group that inevitable
long term damage may result from use of this device, as lean-burn
conditions induced by this device fall outside safety parameters set
by the engine designers.

Although this device is not illegal in this country, we would like to
urge (Ford/Nissan) to consider dropping the sale of the KSTC, as it
constitutes a potential pollution hazard (in the form of NOx
emissions) and a potential problem for motorists who install it.
Customers are being assured that their warranties will NOT be voided
by installation, but the warranty policy clearly states that any such
modifications to (Ford/Nissan)-produced vehicles will constitute a warranty
violation.

Although I realize you give your dealerships free reign in what
aftermarket accessories to sell, the KSTC constitutes a change in the
mechanical workings of the vehicle. I suggest that your engineers
conduct their own testing WITHOUT the participation of the
manufacturer's mechanics (who are always present during publicized
'testing' and appear to adjust the vehicles between testing runs)
before (Ford/Nissan) publicly endorses this device. Because, in the eyes of
the public, sale of this device at a (Ford/Nissan) dealership constitutes an
out-and-out endorsement.

Thank you.

I'd suggest anyone who really has objections to these devices do the same or similar.

for Nissan: (email)
info*ns.nissan.com.ph

for Ford:
http://www.ford.com.ph/contactus.asp?sectag=company

for the Quezon City Government and the DENR:
can't find an e-address, but I suppose it's about time I use our postal system again.

[ghosthunter]

Would this list help?

Brigada Siete brigada*gmanetwork.com
Debate with Mare & Pare debate*gmanetwork.com
Emergency emergency*gmanetwork.com
Extra! Extra! extra*gmanetwork.com
Frontpage frontpage*gmanetwork.com
I-Witness i-witness*gmanetwork.com
Saksi saksi*gmanetwork.com
The Probe Team talkback*probeteam.com
Unang Hirit unanghirit*gmanetwork.com
Imbestigador imbestigador*gmanetwork.com
DZBB rgma*gmanetwork.com

[the_wildthing]

Sent e-mail... You guys might want to do the same.

[luckytruck]

from www.denr.gov.ph


OIC, Public Affairs Office 927-6666 Fax # 928-2910; email add.: pao*denr.gov.ph


andy

[Bogeyman]

A copy of the letter has been sent to Mr. Froilan Dytianquin, Assistant Vice-President for Marketing Services of Mitsubishi Motors Philippines Corporation.

His response was swift, saying that they will take this up with the Technical Committee of the Chamber of Automotive Manufacturers of the Philippines (CAMPI).

Let's hope they follow-up on that pledge.

[niky]

Good guys!

I hope that this case receives fair review... I'm going to see who I can hit up at the Quezon City Government.

Remember, we should not come out shouting that the device does not work... We should merely emphasize different issues relating to its working and its possible environmental effects. I think its good to build awareness first and let these people discover the rest for themselves.

As we see happening in America... if you shout the truth loud enough, people get sick of it and turn a deaf ear... it's best to make them think!