Gas saving device

**odeereambillo** · October 25th, 2004 07:08 PM

Sorry po, double post...

**odeereambillo** · October 25th, 2004 07:13 PM

Originally posted by ghosthunter
The device basically cheats the mass air flow sensor by introducing air into the intake that is not measured. That's why the engine would be running lean with the device installed.

The other devices would detect the changes.
-Manifold absolute pressure sensor (lower vacuum pressure)
-Oxygen sensor (leaner mixture)

In more complex closed-loop engine management systems, the ECU will use the data from the oxygen sensor and adjust the air-fuel mix to reach stoich levels, basically nullifying any changes by the device.

Sir,

sorry sa mga double posts... nagta-time out ang connection ko so i have to refresh the page... iyon yata ang nagco-cause ng double post.

anyway...

is it safe to say sir that the device INDEED saves gas in such a way that Air is added so ang burn ng makina mo is sobrang lean? That's why we have NOx (by product of burning too lean?) tama po ba Sir/Ma'am?

**Jayo** · October 25th, 2004 07:26 PM

Hindi nga, kasi katulad nitong F-150 na di-otso (4.6l V8) may MAF sa intake, kung mag-introduce ka ng unmeasured air (bypass) magiging lean, kaso pag dating sa exhaust manifold downpipe may sensor uli, tawag Oxygen Sensor na magsesense ng presence of oxygen sa exhaust gasses, kapag nasense na meron oxygen (meaning lean condition) hahabaan ng ECU yung fuel injection timing para itama yung maling a/f ratio. Kaya walang effect ito sa mga klase ng sasakyan na may mga ganitong intake and emission control sensors. If you know you have these sensors and how they work you wouldn't have that device intalled.

**Jayo** · October 25th, 2004 07:42 PM

Sa NOx naman, magi-introduce ng exhaust gasses yung Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) valve, ecu controlled din ito para bumaba yung temperature ng combustion. F-150 is ULEV, ultra-low emission vehicle pero "gas-guzzler" dahil hindi pwede i-compromise yung emission standards. D bale malakas sa gas huwag lang mag-pollute ng hangin.

**Bogeyman** · October 25th, 2004 08:12 PM

Originally posted by odeereambillo
is it safe to say sir that the device INDEED saves gas in such a way that Air is added so ang burn ng makina mo is sobrang lean? That's why we have NOx (by product of burning too lean?) tama po ba Sir/Ma'am?

Naman, you make it sound like a good thing, hehehehe.

Sige, it DOES save gas, if that's what you've been waiting to hear. But whatever amount in fuel the device "saves" is automatically offset by the costs of repairing the damage which will eventually plague your engine in the long run, because of continuous running on an improper a/f mixture.

Then of course, there is the moral cost of knowing that you contributed to increasing the incidence of respiratory disease, and for what? Para lang makatipid ng barya sa gasolina? That's being a little selfish now, isn't it?

And no, a test on my vehicle is out of the question. Not when I still have two years and 11 months on my warranty.

**ghosthunter** · October 25th, 2004 10:56 PM

Originally posted by odeereambillo
Sir,
is it safe to say sir that the device INDEED saves gas in such a way that Air is added so ang burn ng makina mo is sobrang lean? That's why we have NOx (by product of burning too lean?) tama po ba Sir/Ma'am?

If and when your device does work (lean air fuel mix), it does save some gas.

It will also cause a few other things too:
-hotter combustion temperatures
-very big increase in NOx emissions
-motor oil degrades faster
-engine valves gets hotter, possible damage over long run
-detonation, engine knock, ping might occur especially on hotter days
-possible piston head damage
-possible piston ring damage
-possible gasket damage
-NOx can combine with water vapor to produce nitric acid
-acid can prematurely degrade your expensive muffler and exhaust system.
-increase of NOx in the air and sunlight will cause increase in smog levels
-increase of NOx in the air will make anyone with respiratory problems worst
-increase of NOx in the air will cause acid rain
-acid rain can dissolve concrete and stone buildings, statues, even your car's paint job prematurely
-acid rain can and will kill forests and rivers (if we have any left)

**odeereambillo** · October 25th, 2004 11:33 PM

Originally posted by ghosthunter
If and when your device does work (lean air fuel mix), it does save some gas.

It will also cause a few other things too:
-hotter combustion temperatures
-very big increase in NOx emissions
-motor oil degrades faster
-engine valves gets hotter, possible damage over long run
-detonation, engine knock, ping might occur especially on hotter days
-possible piston head damage
-possible piston ring damage
-possible gasket damage
-NOx can combine with water vapor to produce nitric acid
-acid can prematurely degrade your expensive muffler and exhaust system.
-increase of NOx in the air and sunlight will cause increase in smog levels
-increase of NOx in the air will make anyone with respiratory problems worst
-increase of NOx in the air will cause acid rain
-acid rain can dissolve concrete and stone buildings, statues, even your car's paint job prematurely
-acid rain can and will kill forests and rivers (if we have any left)

Sir,

assuming it leans a/f mixture (which saves fuel consumption), you also mentioned earlier in this thread that the ECU still have its O2 and manifold absolute pressure sensors to correct A/F... sir di po kaya the device helps the entire Fuel System achieve STOICH levels at any given state (idle, high speed, braking, gear shifting, etc) of the engine?

**odeereambillo** · October 25th, 2004 11:34 PM

Originally posted by ghosthunter

so how did Mr Planas test his device for zero pollution claims?

[/B]

Sir,

sa Taiwan po pina-test ang Khaos for pollution...

**odeereambillo** · October 25th, 2004 11:42 PM

Originally posted by Bogeyman
Naman, you make it sound like a good thing, hehehehe.

Sige, it DOES save gas, if that's what you've been waiting to hear. But whatever amount in fuel the device "saves" is automatically offset by the costs of repairing the damage which will eventually plague your engine in the long run, because of continuous running on an improper a/f mixture.

Then of course, there is the moral cost of knowing that you contributed to increasing the incidence of respiratory disease, and for what? Para lang makatipid ng barya sa gasolina? That's being a little selfish now, isn't it?

And no, a test on my vehicle is out of the question. Not when I still have two years and 11 months on my warranty.

hindi naman po sa iyon ang gusto kong marinig, nais ko lang po malaman kung ang idea na "bleeding air into the intake manifold INDEED helps save fuel consumption" ay tama... Iyon po kasi ang pagkaka-intindi ko po, base sa mga previous posts sa thread na ito.

Nabanggit ko din po sa mga unang bahagi ng mga posts ko sa thread na ito na ako man ay namamangha sa ginagawa ng device na ito sa pagpapatipid sa konsumo ng gasolina.

**ghosthunter** · October 26th, 2004 01:14 AM

Originally posted by odeereambillo
Sir,

assuming it leans a/f mixture (which saves fuel consumption), you also mentioned earlier in this thread that the ECU still have its O2 and manifold absolute pressure sensors to correct A/F... sir di po kaya the device helps the entire Fuel System achieve STOICH levels at any given state (idle, high speed, braking, gear shifting, etc) of the engine?

Why spend hard earned P6500 for your engine to reach stoich levels when it can do this even without your device since you did say that it does already have all those sensors to adjust itself. Why introduce a purely mechanical device that has no feelback system into an already balanced machine?

BTW, not all cars are equipted with a closed loop ecu.