BMW lowering question.

[manolop10]

Hey guys, i'm a newbie with setting cars up, and i have a question on lowering my car, its a '98 BMW E36 316i. My rear coil springs have already settled really low, and i had the shocks replaced already, mababa pa rin. And if you guys noticed, most of the Euro cars have a negative alignment with the rear wheels. So meaning yung kain ng gulong, sa loob rin. I noticed on the brand new tires i replaced, only after 3 months, medyo napudpod na yung goma sa loob. I wanna know if replacing my springs to lowering springs, ganito pa rin ba mangyayari sa negative alignment ng rear? Or should i just replace the rear springs to factory height to have egual alignment? Is there a way to put lowering springs sa car pero maayos pa rin alignment niya or ganun talaga pag mas lowered?

Take note, the alignment of the car can only repaired from its sides, yung left to right and vice versa lang, wala sa positive negative position.

Thanks!!

[speedyfix]

lowering the car will have the same result as the sagging springs you have on now imo. i'm sure you can buy some sort of camber correction device naman for your specific model...

[redorange]

Hey guys, i'm a newbie with setting cars up, and i have a question on lowering my car, its a '98 BMW E36 316i. My rear coil springs have already settled really low, and i had the shocks replaced already, mababa pa rin. And if you guys noticed, most of the Euro cars have a negative alignment with the rear wheels. So meaning yung kain ng gulong, sa loob rin. I noticed on the brand new tires i replaced, only after 3 months, medyo napudpod na yung goma sa loob. I wanna know if replacing my springs to lowering springs, ganito pa rin ba mangyayari sa negative alignment ng rear? Or should i just replace the rear springs to factory height to have egual alignment? Is there a way to put lowering springs sa car pero maayos pa rin alignment niya or ganun talaga pag mas lowered?

Take note, the alignment of the car can only repaired from its sides, yung left to right and vice versa lang, wala sa positive negative position.
Thanks!!

Are you saying that you can only adjust the caster but not the camber on your car? Also how many Km are on the tires since you installed the new ones, maybe it's time to rotate your tires. That's determined more by the distance travelled by the tire rather than the time it's been on the car. It seems a little early for your springs to be sagging so soon, normally car makers put in a bit of negative camber to prevent oversteer on rwd cars.

[empy]

the e36's do appear to sit low in the back, meaning that if you're used to a non-bmw, the tire will look unusually close to the fender lip. that's normal. but having the rear suspension misaligned to the point of uneven tire wear is not normal.

if you use the proper lowering springs or shock/spring kit, you should be able to run with the proper camber with no issue. i think your suspension has a problem that needs to be fixed before you tinker with the ride height.

[manolop10]

*speedyfix - I figured that would be the result, but i never knew there could be those camber coorrection devices! Would you know where i can look for those? Can your shop check my suspension?

*redorange - Thanks for giving the correct terms. Yes only the caster may be adjusted and not the camber. The new tires have only about 5000kms on them. The springs are 10 years old and surely this is enough time for them to sag and settle this low. I will rotate the tires but isn't this too soon?

*M54powered - i'll have my suspension checked, but i already had the rear bushings and shock absorbers changed, so that leaves the springs left AFAIK. anymore to add?

Thanks for the reply guys. A lot of help so far, just need the time to have it checked then. Can you suggest a place? I go to European Motors but they can be overkill sometimes. I'd like to try other experienced places. I appreciate the help! Thanks again!

[StraightSix]

According to the TIS service disc ...

Camber deviation may be caused by:
- insufficient spring force
- faulty rubber mounts in the rear-axle carrier
- faulty rubber mount in the control arm
- deformed rear-axle carrier
- deformed control arm
- distortion in the floor assembly.

For the E36 on standard 15" wheels and on standard suspension, the distance between the lower edge of the rear wheel arch and the rim flange at the bottom middle should be 510 mm ± 10 mm. This distance differs according to wheel size (up to 17 inches) and suspension type (standard/low-slung sports/rough road package).

HTH

[Si 06]

the e36's do appear to sit low in the back, meaning that if you're used to a non-bmw, the tire will look unusually close to the fender lip. that's normal. but having the rear suspension misaligned to the point of uneven tire wear is not normal.

if you use the proper lowering springs or shock/spring kit, you should be able to run with the proper camber with no issue. i think your suspension has a problem that needs to be fixed before you tinker with the ride height.

I used original M sport lowering springs in my 3 before with the same results nakabuka. 1 or 1.5 lang lower set yon not just the rear.

[manolop10]

*Straightsix - One positive reason for my camber deviation is because of spring force. Not only does my rear springs sag and settle real low, but it has lost its firmness! Sorry i forgot to mention this earlier. The rear springs are more bouncy than it should be. This happens when i dive downward or rise upward speeding on uneven roads. The rear bounces and i hear the tires hit the fender lip. I'll check the other reasons you mentioned. One last thing, whats the TIS service disc? Sorry newbie. Hehe

*Si 06 - Yeah i'm aware of of lowering set. Speaking of that, can anyone point me to the best place for getting a lowering springs set? Prefferably H&R Sport springs

[StraightSix]

whats the TIS service disc?

TIS is a German abbreviation which also means Technical Information System. It's a service/repair manual on CD, the same one dealer technicians use. It has specs on most aspects of the car, also estimates for the time it'll take to do the job ... know how much you're getting screwed .

[manolop10]

Cool thanks Straightsix. Hope you don't mind me asking, how did you get a hold of a TIS disc? You think i can get my hands on one too? Hehe

[StraightSix]

I got it off ebay back in 2002. A couple of years later a UK bimmer forum posted a link for the 2004 system discs ... never bothered to get newer ones after that. But sorry, I just checked and the link's gone. You can get the 2005 discs via ******* downloading. And the other system discs might interest you enough to look for them ...

ETK - Titled "EPC" in English for Electronic Parts Catalog. An online version is accessible at www.realoem.com/bmw .
EBA - List of all oem accessories with retrofitting instructions.
WDS - Schematic wiring diagram. The wiring diagram for the E36 and Z3 (called ETM) can be downloaded at http://www.gbnetwork.co.uk/bmw/downloadetm.html

There are other system discs whose titles I know not. These are very useful tools that helped me a lot ... like when I replaced my mechanical seats with motorized/memory ones, after dealers told me that they can't (or won't) do it. It may be because the seat isn't listed as a retrofit kit, hence no instructions, hehe, but the wiring harness needed isn't listed on the parts catalog either. Since I know basic electronics and have a copy of the WDS, the problem was solved thru DIY .

[empy]

**M54powered - i'll have my suspension checked, but i already had the rear bushings and shock absorbers changed, so that leaves the springs left AFAIK. anymore to add?

mmm...i missed that in the original post. just so i'm clear, did you already have the suspension professionally aligned, along with replacing the parts, and it didn't work?

i guess it wouldn't hurt to try to replace the springs (except in the wallet). it may solve the problem as long as you're using OEM-spec bushings, shocks and springs.

sayang pinalitan mo na yung bushings and shocks mo, you could have gotten a quality lowering kit with springs, properly valved shocks, and custom rear bushings that are made to counteract the natural negative camber that those bmw suspensions have because of their design (google 'semi trailing rear arm suspension' if you're interested in how it works). since the camber goes naturally negative as the suspension travels downward, you will want to install bushings that provide some offset to balance it out.

I used original M sport lowering springs in my 3 before with the same results nakabuka. 1 or 1.5 lang lower set yon not just the rear.

what are 'original M sport' springs? are these the springs found in the OEM sport suspension package (i think they are also sold in some countries as "M Technic")? or are they springs from the e36 m3?

either way, if your bmw has the so-called semi trailing rear arm suspension, you will get negative camber if all you do is replace the springs, as i explained above. the sport package and the m3 suspension have much more than just springs with lower ride height...

[manolop10]

Hey M54Powered, I'm planning to get H&R Sport Springs, so at least that would sort of fix my problem. One thing about my springs is that they really sagged and lack force na. I didn't realize i could get a quality lowering kit with springs, properly valved shocks, and custom rear bushings that are made to counteract the natural negative camber for my car. I always thought it would be so expensive. Oh well, I'll have to make do with what i have. Hopefully i can just find bushings that would help with my problem. Can you lead me to a place that could help me? Hehe. Thanks for the help buddy.

[speedyfix]

better to get eibach imo... it doesn't sag.

[empy]

bosing manolo...the guys i talked with about e36 suspensions are both here in the US - Turner motorsport and UUC motorworks. afraid i can't be of more help in the RP.

but H&R sport springs are good in my experience...pero ewan ko lang if they work for your particular problem/application.

[manolop10]

*Speedyfix, i'm getting H&R's cuz i might get a good deal on them and save some cash. You think the H&R's are gonna sag after some time? Cuz i want reliable springs too, and i might just put up with the price if Eibach's would be better.

*M54Powered - Thanks for the help! Hopefully getting new springs would just help with my problem. I'll have it checked as well to be sure.

Thanks everyone for your replies. Appreciate it!

[speedyfix]

well some people complain about the sag in the other brands while eibach has a lifetime warranty against sag

[manolop10]

Hey guys, i finally have H&R sport springs on my car, the ride is a bit different but i'm sure its all for the better performance wise. Just one thing i noticed, the back really sits too low. Hence, whenever i would speed up and pass an unever road, the rear bounces and the wheels hit the fender lip. This was the same problem with the sagged stock springs before. What should i do? Would putting 1-inch lifters in the rear do any good? Any help would be highly appreciated, thanks guys!

[empy]

either get shocks with a a stiffer rebound/damper rate (research which ones work with H&R Sports), or get your fender lips rolled. optimally, do both.

it's kinda pointless to use lifters and lowering springs at the same time.

good luck!