The Eagle Will Not Fly Without the Poor

[uls]

businesses that don't cater to the masses?

internet, microsoft, dvds/movies (not talking about nora aunor movies-hollywood.....yung pinipirata d2, Google, amazon, aol/time warner, carmakers. ****, real estate and prolly a lot more beyond my limited knowledge.

masses don't have or pay for these stuff so not all are keeping the little man down while milking him dry.

Hollywood movies/dvds: People who watch movies in theaters and buy legal dvds keep movie companies profitable. Kung hindi dahil sa mga nagbabayad para manood ng sine at bumili ng legal na dvd, walang ipipirata ang mga pirata.

same with ****.

Internet is not free. U need to pay for DSL or dial up. Free wifi? someone owns the router and pays for the dsl so u can use it for free. That someone has an income derived from somewhere.

Amazon sells books and stuff online. Amazon customers keep amazon alive.

AOL/Time Warner is a media and communications company. AOL/Time Warner owns CNN, HBO, Time magazine, Time Warner Cable, etc. pls. read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Warner They make money from the american public and the rest of the world.

Cars/real estate: Ang pambili ng bahay/lupa at oto ay galing sa pagtrabaho sa kompanya o sariling negosyo na mass market ang customer.

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So my world view is unpopular.

i dont live in a bubble.

I dont live in Disneyland.

[empy]

i dont live in a bubble.

I dont live in Disneyland.

no, you live in judgemental land. or is it hypocrite land? same thing.

keep on posting your senseless drivel. it's getting quite amusing.

and just when i thought the forum was getting a little bit boring

[bad driver]

dude, so everyone is masa except bill gates and super rich types? dba tawag saten..... eh buying public? consumer? eh kung lahat nga naman ceo ng kumpanya eh walang bebentahan.

Consumer=masa? then I think we are not on the same page here. hehe... kala ko masa is the one who buys tinqi tingi and discount stores lang.

Hollywood movies/dvds: People who watch movies in theaters and buy legal dvds keep movie companies profitable. Kung hindi dahil sa mga nagbabayad para manood ng sine at bumili ng legal na dvd, walang ipipirata ang mga pirata.

same with ****.

Internet is not free. U need to pay for DSL or dial up. Free wifi? someone owns the router and pays for the dsl so u can use it for free. That someone has an income derived from somewhere.

Amazon sells books and stuff online. Amazon customers keep amazon alive.

AOL/Time Warner is a media and communications company. AOL/Time Warner owns CNN, HBO, Time magazine, Time Warner Cable, etc. pls. read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Warner They make money from the american public and the rest of the world.

Cars/real estate: Ang pambili ng bahay/lupa at oto ay galing sa pagtrabaho sa kompanya o sariling negosyo na mass market ang customer.

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So my world view is unpopular.

i dont live in a bubble.

I dont live in Disneyland.

[nmtin]

basically uls is saying na everything will trickle down to the poor and because of this effect without the poor walang yayaman. Pero pilosopo lang talaga ung pagsabi niya

[GlennSter]

basically uls is saying na everything will trickle down to the poor and because of this effect without the poor walang yayaman. Pero pilosopo lang talaga ung pagsabi niya

it seems like it does because the poor out numbers the rich a billionfold.

but if you will really think about it...umiikot lang talaga yansa lahat ng tao.mayaman ka man o mahirap.but then..since pilosopo ang sinabi niya..then so be it.not a problem with me.

m54: you thought the forum was boring ha... herhehrehr...

[ILuvDetailing]

The basic arguement of this thread is whether those who donates to charities do it out of goodwill or have a hidden agenda whether possitive or negative. My view is that we should give the benefit of the doubt because it is totally unfair to those people/companies who do it out of goodwill. It is better to give for whatever reason than not do anything and criticize.

Sumakit ulo ko sa mga arguments dito

[Imau]

Our people have gone down to a level where we have to honor those who do good (or the right thing).

A cab driver who returned money his passenger left in the cab. A little girl who turned over a backpack full of money someone dropped. They were rewarded handsomely.

Is doing the right thing so rare nowadays that things like that call for a celebration and reward-giving?

Is doing the wrong thing the standard these days? that we have to broadcast over the evening news that doing the right thing has its rewards?

So now we actually have to encourage our people to do the right thing? Isnt doing the right thing the default thing to do?

Our country has no shortage of inspirational messages. We have priests and churches everywhere. We have religious tv shows everyday.

Man cannot live on bread alone. That is if u dont have any problem obtaining bread...then u can set ur mind to more spiritual pursuits. But if ur daily existence is concerned with obtaining bread, inspirational messages sound like background noise.

Our country has a shortage of capital. We need to attract capital. Just like what China and India are doing so well.

Then when ur citizens are not occupied with obtaining their daily bread, inspirational messages will begin to sound like inspirational messages.

To be hopeful in bad times is not just foolishly romantic. It is based on the fact that human history is a history not only of cruelty but also of compassion, sacrifice, courage, kindness. What we choose to emphasize in this complex history will determine our lives. If we see only the worst, it destroys our capacity to do something. If we remember those times and places--and there are so many--where people have behaved magnificently, this gives us the energy to act, and at least the possibility of sending this spinning top of a world in a different direction. And if we do act, in however small a way, we don't have to wait for some grand utopian future. The future is an infinite succession of presents, and to live now as we think human beings should live, in defiance of all that is bad around us, is itself a marvelous victory.


Howard Zinn

[chairman]

*chairman, ito naman ang itatanong ko sa'yo. para naman balanced hehehe.

what if you're head of a department of your big corporation. for the entire year, your bosses have been pressuring you and your department to contribute. say 10% of the company's total projected output for that particular year. by achieving so, you had countless overtimes, holiday works, missed a lot family events, pinned in the middle of complaining tired employees and pressuring upper management, became a victim of office politics and bureacracy etc... etc ... then on January you present to your bosses the 10% na pinaghirapan mo and your department.

a week after, your company issues a press statement that they are donating 10% of the previous year's income to charity/foundations. and you found out from accounting that the money will be taken from your department's outputs/funds. pano na? is it ok for you and just accept it as your part in helping others. with all that sacrifice, halos napabayaan mo pamilya mo, sarili mo and not to mention the morale of your subordinates. can you accept that in the new year, you have an almost broken home family to fix, while other families get fixed from your "donation".



somehow siguro you'll think hindi dapat ganun na lang kadali yun. ganun din sa mga companies in general. by donating to charity a hefty sum or something in kind, may katumbas yun, number of manhours worked by a particular group, the resources, etc etc ...


businesses are in the business of making money. and I firmly believe that they view their charitable acts more as a form of investment.

*oldblue

First of all, if your work will destroy your family life, then it might be better to look for another job. priorities lang yan diba. it's up to you in the end. if you want to work for the company that doesn't prioritize family then that's up to you. you can always say no. ok, baka sabihin mo that's not realistic.. kasi kailangan ng pera. well some people do it. so it is realistic.

ok, sige granted my department made 10% and nalaman ko idodonate pala yun sa charity. then fine. at the end of the day my 10% made other people's lives better. but with the condition nga that it doesn't destroy my family. if i was working for a company that will destroy my family, lilipat nalang ako.

my 10% made giving to the poor possible. i should be honored na nagawa ko yun.

bro, at the end of the day.. this is just about doing something for the country and for your fellow men. we'lre all in this world to make a difference. so let's make one.

[bajumbo]

beware of the dark side my young Padawan
I sense the dark side lurking it is
So much pain, so much pain...

[uls]

What u do for a living? If u have a business. who are your customers? where do they get the money to pay for the goods or services u sell?

If u work for a company. Where does the company get money to pay your salary? Who are the company's customers? Where do those customers get the money to buy the goods or services ur employer sells?

If ur a professional. who are your customers? saan galing pera nila?

Pilosopo ba? oo sige. mali ba?

Mali ba that i look beyond my immediate surroundings? Mali ba that im concerned that if my customers are having a hard time making money, they would buy less goods or services from me?

If im selling electronic gadgets to gadget freaks, i would like my gadget-freak customers to make lots of money in their business or work coz the more money they make, the more gadgets they buy.

If im selling car accessories, i would like the economy to be healthy coz if the economy is healthy, people would be buying lots of new cars and they would come to my shop to buy accessories for their new cars.

If im SM, i would like people to have lots of disposable income coz if people have more disposable income, they go shopping.

Mali ba? pilosopo sige. hindi mali.

[empy]

m54: you thought the forum was boring ha... herhehrehr...

medyo nakakatamad na basahin yung mga civic vs sentra vs mazda3 comparisons hehehe....no offense to anyone

[prinsipe]

mga sir, with all the post here, hopefully may na inspire sa atin na tumulong sa mga mahihirap ng kababayan natin...praying for this every day.

"Do not be content in finding artificial security in gated subdivisions when you can provide yourself a buffer of peace by caring for the needy around you. Nor be content with living in first world luxury in a third world environment and contributing to the discontent and the growing threats around the security of your own family.

Give value to the land of your birth by sharing with those who for generations have been deprived of its use and abundance. Be a blessing to your children's future by making it your responsibility to be father or mother to the abandoned and neglected.

Be the healing of the soul of this nation and the fulfillment of the dream that we have forgotten.

Be the proud Filipino that we are not yet, but soon will be.

Be the hero who finds courage and the conviction that this country is worth saving, because it is a gift from God and that your life is meaningless if it is not dedicated to the fulfillment of a divine destiny to be a great people."

Peace!

God Bless us!

[oldblue]

*oldblue

ok, sige granted my department made 10% and nalaman ko idodonate pala yun sa charity. then fine. at the end of the day my 10% made other people's lives better. but with the condition nga that it doesn't destroy my family. if i was working for a company that will destroy my family, lilipat nalang ako.

my 10% made giving to the poor possible. i should be honored na nagawa ko yun.

bro, at the end of the day.. this is just about doing something for the country and for your fellow men. we'lre all in this world to make a difference. so let's make one.

that is very admirable.

i can sense na punong-puno ng idealism at optimism ang pagkatao mo sir *chairman. how old are you na ba? if you're 30 up or 40 up then very good for you sir! keep it up. if you're in your 20's, then the better coz idealism can be a powerful tool to stay away from cynicism.

but for me, I look to our world in a different light na talaga. maybe it's cynicism or maybe I'm too weak to fight for what I initally believed in (I too was very idealistic when I was young, by the book ika nga) or maybe it's really this world that changed me. would you believe that I consider having principles or being idealistic a liability?

remember the time when you were young and you had this voice inside of you saying: " I will change the world!". well for me, it's the other around na. I'm beginning to accept that "The world changed me instead." ...

all I can say is, I wish I had your strong convictions. keep it up bro

[oldblue]

and don't be fooled about the motives being all about the tax breaks - remember that even if you get a 30% tax deduction for charitable expenses, you still have to give 100 pesos to get back 30. not exactly a great return on equity

very true. my dad once told me a story about the company that he is working with. His company was asked in exchange for a local govt favor, to build and to donate a school to a certain town. They built the school in a little over a year (that fast) and also got taxed after building it.

the rest of the stuff you said is too "New Age" for me

hehehe new age ba? well new age or not, I do believe in the forces. remember the time when noon bata ka pa then nakapulot ka ng piso sa school, the day(s) after nawala buong lunch box mo or allowance mo. happens in business all the time.

this one I experienced years ago. I had a small business and it went so well for a period. in fact, I had every confidence in it and I started to become lax in management. Then the dreaded month came, business dropped to 30% average sales per day. sabi ko noon, if it drops below 40%, then I'll move. it dropped. almost simultaenously (in that same month) I received a letter of warning from a govt agency on some violation, a disgruntled employee who resigned but not without influencing my other employees' morale, and worst of all, my bank called and told me that somebody has duplicated my credit card and used my the maximum credit limit.

I was so down talaga. then on a dinner, I narrated my experience to my friends. One of them jokingly told me, "dapat kasi nag-reserve ka ng part ng kita mo sa charity" then tawa sila ng tawa. even if it was a joke, it struck me. never did forget what my friend told me ...

[Flagg]

No offense to you sir M54, but IMHO sir uls is right to say a company's charitable donation would still be fundamentally profit-driven for the simple reason that a company is subject to GAAP accounting. If you debit your cash, you have to credit something else. Goodwill perhaps, or marketing expense (para mabawasan sa taxable income). This is speaking of a company as a singular entity. Of course, this cold financial logic does not extend to the motives behind activities initiated by employees or shareholders like those admirably undertaken by your menyek self (single mom, ha?).

Sir uls, whatever the reasons for charity, IMHO it is still the correct thing to do. From a purely technical standpoint, you can see it as the wider distribution of resources for fuller exploitation, and thus more beneficial to the community.

For example: Instead of repatriating extra earnings, P&G runs a charity program to help youth go to school in-line with it's 'Tolits' campaign. A destitute's daughter can now go to school because of this. Since he doesn't pay tuition, he now has some extra disposable income. He can go buy some Tide (benefitting P&G) so her clothes are clean & white (pansinin!) & win a gold star. His purchase will help Tide's volume, keeping it's production in the Philippines rather than having it shipped out to some regional factory (benefit to the community). The P&G money has earned more than its value! Not only has it been claimed as an expense, it has now returned as sales!

Of course, instead of Tide, he can also go buy Ginebra. It won't help his daughter, but it will keep Ginebra going.

Finally, to give everything away is not necessarily better because there is one member of the community who does not benefit - the donor.
(eg:
Donor : Eto BMW ko.
Charity : Ambait-bait ninyo sir! A sir, ano ginagawa nyo?....
Donor : Eto, pati brief ko...
Charity : A sir, sayo nalang po yan, *ubo ubo* . )

[Flagg]

...this one I experienced years ago. I had a small business and it went so well for a period. in fact, I had every confidence in it and I started to become lax in management. Then the dreaded month came, business dropped to 30% average sales per day. sabi ko noon, if it drops below 40%, then I'll move. it dropped. almost simultaenously (in that same month) I received a letter of warning from a govt agency on some violation, a disgruntled employee who resigned but not without influencing my other employees' morale, and worst of all, my bank called and told me that somebody has duplicated my credit card and used my the maximum credit limit.

I was so down talaga. then on a dinner, I narrated my experience to my friends. One of them jokingly told me, "dapat kasi nag-reserve ka ng part ng kita mo sa charity" then tawa sila ng tawa. even if it was a joke, it struck me. never did forget what my friend told me ...

Naku, no offense sir oldblue, di karma yan. Tawag dyan complacency.

[oldblue]

Naku, no offense sir oldblue, di karma yan. Tawag dyan complacency.

wow new addition to my vocabulary ko yan ah. I just checked dictionary.com, d ko pa din ma-gets meaning.

[Flagg]

Naging complacent lang. Kinda rested on your laurels. Happens to most of us... lost a big client to that one time... sayang.

[uls]

Pls. read this:

http://news.inq7.net/opinion/index.p...d=74851&col=75

They want jobs. Not charity. The country needs capital. Not speeches.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11167185/site/newsweek/

The Pumpmasters control the flow of capital around the world. They control the fate of nations. They are ignoring us. We must be doing something very wrong.

http://news.inq7.net/express/html_ou...74882.xml.html

Our people are hungry.

[empy]

No offense to you sir M54, but IMHO sir uls is right to say a company's charitable donation would still be fundamentally profit-driven for the simple reason that a company is subject to GAAP accounting. If you debit your cash, you have to credit something else. Goodwill perhaps, or marketing expense (para mabawasan sa taxable income). This is speaking of a company as a singular entity. Of course, this cold financial logic does not extend to the motives behind activities initiated by employees or shareholders like those admirably undertaken by your menyek self (single mom, ha?).

i will not deny that a charitable company or individual will turn a blind eye towards the tax benefits, or not care about them. that is not true, of course. but again, it cannot be the sole motive - the math simply doesn't work. if my corporate tax rate is 40%, i can reduce my tax obligation by 40 pesos for every 100 pesos i donate. give 100, get back 40. that's a return on equity of -60%. surely you can find a better investment for your money than one that loses you 60 pesos for every 100 you put in :lol:

and any company that donates to charity purely for the pogi points, because they think it's the best way to boost revenues from the masa, is just plain stupid. all the formal research i've ever read on customer behavior (this is my day job) list "good citizenship" or "charitable giving" way way way down the priority list of things they look for in a company, if at all.

if i wanted to spend my marketing dollars and get the maximum return, i'll launch an advertising campaign. or buy a PBA team, hehe.

chaka hindi maganda yung single mom