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  1. Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    45,927
    #31
    Quote Originally Posted by the_wildthing
    Any business? Let's see now...

    The business of selling paintings.

    The business of owning patents.

    The business of lending to the rich gamblers.



    Sorry bro, can't help it. Peace.
    OK... selling paintings. If ur an artist, who is ur market? the rich. those who invest in art. those who attend Sotheby's and Christie's auctions. Where do those rich people get the money to buy paintings?

    and how about that institution called GSIS. The GSIS president used the contributions of govt employees to purchase paintings.

    Owning patents. Some geek invented something called DOS, then Windows. Who are his customers?

    A company called Du Pont owns a patent called Teflon. Who buys products with teflon coating?

    Lending to rich gamblers. Well, where did u get the money to lend to rich gamblers in the first place?

  2. Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    1,310
    #32
    Quote Originally Posted by uls
    OK... selling paintings. If ur an artist, who is ur market? the rich. those who invest in art. those who attend Sotheby's and Christie's auctions. Where do those rich people get the money to buy paintings?

    and how about that institution called GSIS. The GSIS president used the contributions of govt employees to purchase paintings.

    Owning patents. Some geek invented something called DOS, then Windows. Who are his customers?

    A company called Du Pont owns a patent called Teflon. Who buys products with teflon coating?

    Lending to rich gamblers. Well, where did u get the money to lend to rich gamblers in the first place?
    Uhhh, from the central bank?

    Last I checked, the central bank distributes money to other banks, who distributes the cash (through loans and investments) to everybody, and everybody circulates cash among themselves?

    What's with the rich-need-the-poor implication anyway?

    The poor need the rich too.

    What about two middle class people? They need each other too.

    Everybody needs each other.

  3. Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    45,927
    #33
    ---
    Last edited by uls; May 4th, 2006 at 05:03 PM.

  4. Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    1,310
    #34
    Uhhh, never mind. I'm not giving an economics lecture on an Internet automotive forum. If that's your view of the world (no matter how simple-minded it is), so be it.

  5. Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,362
    #35
    We will be terribly off topic if I reply to your post. Suffice to say some businesses don't necessarily need the masses. I know of a very specific artist who sells his paintings to people who don't necessarily have tons of money, but because they like art.

    But there will always be a "symbiotic" relationship between the classes. One cannot survive without the other.

    If you keep complaining about it, why not do something about it?

  6. Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    556
    #36
    businesses that don't cater to the masses?

    internet, microsoft, dvds/movies (not talking about nora aunor movies-hollywood.....yung pinipirata d2, Google, amazon, aol/time warner, carmakers. ****, real estate and prolly a lot more beyond my limited knowledge.

    masses don't have or pay for these stuff so not all are keeping the little man down while milking him dry.

  7. Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    8,837
    #37
    Quote Originally Posted by M54 Powered
    no, "evil" was an exaggeration i used for effect. but don't deny that you're the one trying to malign the intentions of people in corporations who do charitable works, and imply that the reason for all these are full of ulterior motives. that implication is baseless, unfair, and offensive.

    :


    well just fyi, it's really the governments that started this. they encourage big businesses/corporations to get involved in social welfare such as building of schools, foundations and charities, in exchange for tax breaks.

    Examples of these are Meralco Foundation, Ayala Foundation, Gokongwei Brother's Foundation etc etc....

    but in my humble opinion, businesses/businessmen voluntarily give to charity or share their wealth for the very reason that they are aware of the "forces" that run our world. one cant afford to be too selfish or too greedy simply bec. the same force will take it back from them one way or another. even in Rich Dad, Poor Dad Book na-mention ito by the author, give and take relationship, be aware of the natural forces (cant remember the exact words).

    most rich people in upscale subdivisions donate large sums to their respective parishes; corporations conduct nationwide outreach programs; SME's contribute to their respective local govt improvement projects for the poor.

    why?

    is it purely out of compassion, generosity, kindness? maybe. but I also believe that they are doing this to ensure the survival of their own immediate business setting (a mix of educated, rich, marginalized poor), to weed out unwanted "kharma" or sudden misfortunes or "uncalculated accidents" and to have a clear and "balanced" conscience and thinking -> free from guilt that they have taken so much from this world. with all of these sorted out, these businesses can continue to have steady undisturbed cashflow hence the money.


    yun lang naman yun.
    Last edited by oldblue; May 5th, 2006 at 03:57 AM.

  8. Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    8,837
    #38
    Quote Originally Posted by chairman
    .

    I'm saddened by the fact that a lot of people instead of supporting or helping cast a shadow of doubt at the intentions of others. In all honesty, I really don't care if may motive yung ibang company. If it helps assure their market, i really don't give a rat's ass. All i care about is that people are being helped. There are people here in our country who have new homes and better living conditions.

    As for those who say that indirectly big businesses rely on the poor. Maybe here but in 1st world countries not so much. They rely on masses sure but that doesn't mean poor ang masses.

    We can go on and on about this.. The simple fact is, it's bad enough to just sit on the sidelines while others are doing something for the country and their fellow men. What's worse is sitting on the sideline and criticizing those who help.


    *chairman, ito naman ang itatanong ko sa'yo. para naman balanced hehehe.

    what if you're head of a department of your big corporation. for the entire year, your bosses have been pressuring you and your department to contribute. say 10% of the company's total projected output for that particular year. by achieving so, you had countless overtimes, holiday works, missed a lot family events, pinned in the middle of complaining tired employees and pressuring upper management, became a victim of office politics and bureacracy etc... etc ... then on January you present to your bosses the 10% na pinaghirapan mo and your department.

    a week after, your company issues a press statement that they are donating 10% of the previous year's income to charity/foundations. and you found out from accounting that the money will be taken from your department's outputs/funds. pano na? is it ok for you and just accept it as your part in helping others. with all that sacrifice, halos napabayaan mo pamilya mo, sarili mo and not to mention the morale of your subordinates. can you accept that in the new year, you have an almost broken home family to fix, while other families get fixed from your "donation".



    somehow siguro you'll think hindi dapat ganun na lang kadali yun. ganun din sa mga companies in general. by donating to charity a hefty sum or something in kind, may katumbas yun, number of manhours worked by a particular group, the resources, etc etc ...


    businesses are in the business of making money. and I firmly believe that they view their charitable acts more as a form of investment.

  9. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    9,894
    #39
    i guess i'll never get an answer to my question about "giving everything". oh well. it's too hard to have a discussion with someone who responds with rhetoric and not logical counterpoints.

    oldblue, it might be true that some people give to charity for the pogi points. hell, maybe you've seen it happen many times. just be careful not to generalize that all businesses and businessmen give because they expect something in return. that simply is not true, and i take offense to anyone who says that.

    and don't be fooled about the motives being all about the tax breaks - remember that even if you get a 30% tax deduction for charitable expenses, you still have to give 100 pesos to get back 30. not exactly a great return on equity :D

    the rest of the stuff you said is too "New Age" for me

  10. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    9,894
    #40
    Quote Originally Posted by oldblue
    what if you're head of a department of your big corporation. for the entire year, your bosses have been pressuring you and your department to contribute. say 10% of the company's total projected output for that particular year. by achieving so, you had countless overtimes, holiday works, missed a lot family events, pinned in the middle of complaining tired employees and pressuring upper management, became a victim of office politics and bureacracy etc... etc ... then on January you present to your bosses the 10% na pinaghirapan mo and your department.

    a week after, your company issues a press statement that they are donating 10% of the previous year's income to charity/foundations. and you found out from accounting that the money will be taken from your department's outputs/funds. pano na? is it ok for you and just accept it as your part in helping others. with all that sacrifice, halos napabayaan mo pamilya mo, sarili mo and not to mention the morale of your subordinates. can you accept that in the new year, you have an almost broken home family to fix, while other families get fixed from your "donation".
    does this actually happen, or is this a pure hypothetical situation?

    maybe it's different over there, but department heads typically know exactly what goals they have to achieve, and what kind of bonus they will get if they meet those goals, at the beginning of the year. when my year-end numbers come in, i know how much money i'm going to get as a bonus (within a range) and the company can't suddenly change it without being in breach of contract.

    charitable donations and gift-matching typically come from a different expense line. actually, i believe that it's a violation of GAAP (accounting principles) to take charitable expenses from your salaries and bonuses line.

    also, like i said before, donations are not always a company writing a check. many times they are a bunch of employees raising funds from their own pockets for a good cause, or personally deciding to give their time and effort, with the company's blessing. that's much different now, isn't it?

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