The Eagle Will Not Fly Without the Poor

[margaux]

Our leaders have done a great job of scaring away capital. So we are left with inspirational speeches and charity.

And I think this may have something to do with the attitude of the people as well. Okay, there is nothing wrong with helping those who are in need but it is not enough for them and they keep on asking for more help, yet, they are not doing anything for their own live's improvement. Somehow, when we offer charity, it's already fixed n their minds that somebody out there will provide help for them. Yeah, it's true that we feel so sorry for the poor people out there but if it's always like this,wherein they would depend on other people's kind heart, there will be no improvement at all for a country with a high percentage of poverty.

OT: this thread just reminds me of Bob Ong's "Bakit Baligtad Magbasa Ang Mga Pilipino?"

[mazdamazda]

the big/multinational companies need the poor coz thats the market for their consumer products.

Now that's a very generalized statement.

but these corporate outreach campaigns are simply a collection of human beings just like you and me that are giving back to the community with the support of their corporation

I guess somebody forgot that these "evil corporations" are composed of people.

[uls]

Now that's a very generalized statement.

I guess somebody forgot that these "evil corporations" are composed of people.

Please name a business, any business, that doesnt need the masses.

Please look at my posts. I never used the word "evil".

[prinsipe]

my only point why I post the speeches is to inspire/encourage others to help the poor. if you are not inspired/encourage to help then don't help, just sit down, be cynical(believing the worst of human nature and motives; having a sneering disbelief in e.g. selflessness of others) all you want. You can look at Mr. Dylan Wilk (son-in-law of Mr. Meloto)who left his country England, his family and friends, his extravagant lifestyle - his Ferrari, his Porsche and BMW... in exchange for the poor families in this country that he has learned to love and care for, and still be cynical.

http://www.planetphilippines.com/arc.../feature2.html

Mr. Meloto also mentioned - "Change will not come easy, that’s why we need to encourage and we need to honor all the good examples around us. We need to invite everyone to come on board. Poverty is so massive that our response to it cannot be small. We cannot rebuild this country if we do not engage every sector of society including government. It is counter-productive to judge all government officials as corrupt. In dealing with dishonest men, just be honest. We cannot change people if we make them our enemies. Engage them and bring out the best in them.

While many are accustomed to the path of blame, we have to discover a new path, build a new culture of honoring those who do good."

[empy]

Please name a business, any business, that doesnt need the masses.

Please look at my posts. I never used the word "evil".

no, "evil" was an exaggeration i used for effect. but don't deny that you're the one trying to malign the intentions of people in corporations who do charitable works, and imply that the reason for all these are full of ulterior motives. that implication is baseless, unfair, and offensive.

of course people or companies will take care of themselves, their families, and their dreams/aspirations first before they give of themselves to others. most charities are more than happy to accept whatever a person or company feels is within their means to give.

you're the only one who is so unreasonable as to expect that one should give EVERYTHING they have. let me repeat my question from the last post: have you done this? or do you just like to talk out of your ass?

prinsipe: "having a sneering disbelief" - very eloquently put. describes the situation perfectly

[uls]

Our people have gone down to a level where we have to honor those who do good (or the right thing).

A cab driver who returned money his passenger left in the cab. A little girl who turned over a backpack full of money someone dropped. They were rewarded handsomely.

Is doing the right thing so rare nowadays that things like that call for a celebration and reward-giving?

Is doing the wrong thing the standard these days? that we have to broadcast over the evening news that doing the right thing has its rewards?

So now we actually have to encourage our people to do the right thing? Isnt doing the right thing the default thing to do?

Our country has no shortage of inspirational messages. We have priests and churches everywhere. We have religious tv shows everyday.

Man cannot live on bread alone. That is if u dont have any problem obtaining bread...then u can set ur mind to more spiritual pursuits. But if ur daily existence is concerned with obtaining bread, inspirational messages sound like background noise.

Our country has a shortage of capital. We need to attract capital. Just like what China and India are doing so well.

Then when ur citizens are not occupied with obtaining their daily bread, inspirational messages will begin to sound like inspirational messages.

[the_wildthing]

There are three groups of people. Those who make things happen, those who watch things happen, and those who ask, "what happened?"

I hope we're all "making things happen."

We can't all sit around and complain and not do anything about it.

[chairman]

Uls, one of a the active members of Gawad Kalinga did that. Think his name is Dylan Wilks, he was one of Britain's richest men and he gave away everything. Sold his company, cars and gave up his position of power, so that he could help the poor. It all started by selling his BMW and giving the money to GK. It made him truly happy and the rest is history. Hope this story convinces you that there is still some good in this world.

this one is true. I can personally atest to that. I know Dylan Wilk. He's a personal friend of mine. He sold his BMW and donated all the proceeds to put up a village in Bulacan. It's called the BMW M3 village now if I'm not mistaken. He also now lives a very simple life. Sometimes he even takes the bus and taxi here. He doesn't have a car here. From multimillionaire to now just a simple person. Not because he lost it all but because he gave it all up.

Dylan is also now the son-in-law of Tony Meloto who is the executive director of GK. T.M. also gave up his corporate life for GK. Now living simply. So literally they both are walking the walk and talking the talk.

It's hard to base your opinions by the virtue of the speech. If you get to know these people then you'll probably change your minds.

I'm saddened by the fact that a lot of people instead of supporting or helping cast a shadow of doubt at the intentions of others. In all honesty, I really don't care if may motive yung ibang company. If it helps assure their market, i really don't give a rat's ass. All i care about is that people are being helped. There are people here in our country who have new homes and better living conditions.

As for those who say that indirectly big businesses rely on the poor. Maybe here but in 1st world countries not so much. They rely on masses sure but that doesn't mean poor ang masses.

We can go on and on about this.. The simple fact is, it's bad enough to just sit on the sidelines while others are doing something for the country and their fellow men. What's worse is sitting on the sideline and criticizing those who help.

[the_wildthing]

Please name a business, any business, that doesnt need the masses.

Any business? Let's see now...

The business of selling paintings.

The business of owning patents.

The business of lending to the rich gamblers.



Sorry bro, can't help it. Peace.

[Alpha_One]

Our people have gone down to a level where we have to honor those who do good (or the right thing).

A cab driver who returned money his passenger left in the cab. A little girl who turned over a backpack full of money someone dropped. They were rewarded handsomely.

Is doing the right thing so rare nowadays that things like that call for a celebration and reward-giving?

Is doing the wrong thing the standard these days? that we have to broadcast over the evening news that doing the right thing has its rewards?

So now we actually have to encourage our people to do the right thing? Isnt doing the right thing the default thing to do?

Our country has no shortage of inspirational messages. We have priests and churches everywhere. We have religious tv shows everyday.

Man cannot live on bread alone. That is if u dont have any problem obtaining bread...then u can set ur mind to more spiritual pursuits. But if ur daily existence is concerned with obtaining bread, inspirational messages sound like background noise.

Our country has a shortage of capital. We need to attract capital. Just like what China and India are doing so well.

Then when ur citizens are not occupied with obtaining their daily bread, inspirational messages will begin to sound like inspirational messages.

Doing the "right thing" isn't rare. Doing the "right thing" is the default thing to do. You don't seem to recognise the good things, because by default, what is done are the "good things".

Of course, average people returning big ass packs of cash are all over the news because it's so media friendly. But you never see anyone on the news who returned a wallet containing a social security ID - exactly what a multicab driver did when he saw my grandmother's wallet in the back of his vehicle. (Grandma's wallet got snatched, the thief probably left it in the back of a truck)

On TV, you don't see:

-Drivers giving way to people coming out of their parking spaces.

-Commuters teaching first-timers how to operate the LRT2 vending machine.

-Good samaritans helping a motorist who's car broke down.

-People paying correct taxes (unless they're politicos or celebs).

-People paying correct amounts.

-People doing their work.

-Etc.

Hell, doing good is sooooooooooo trivial nobody gives any special attention to it.

The world is still >90% good, but not to many people realise that. Thank God.

[uls]

Any business? Let's see now...

The business of selling paintings.

The business of owning patents.

The business of lending to the rich gamblers.



Sorry bro, can't help it. Peace.

OK... selling paintings. If ur an artist, who is ur market? the rich. those who invest in art. those who attend Sotheby's and Christie's auctions. Where do those rich people get the money to buy paintings?

and how about that institution called GSIS. The GSIS president used the contributions of govt employees to purchase paintings.

Owning patents. Some geek invented something called DOS, then Windows. Who are his customers?

A company called Du Pont owns a patent called Teflon. Who buys products with teflon coating?

Lending to rich gamblers. Well, where did u get the money to lend to rich gamblers in the first place?

[Alpha_One]

OK... selling paintings. If ur an artist, who is ur market? the rich. those who invest in art. those who attend Sotheby's and Christie's auctions. Where do those rich people get the money to buy paintings?

and how about that institution called GSIS. The GSIS president used the contributions of govt employees to purchase paintings.

Owning patents. Some geek invented something called DOS, then Windows. Who are his customers?

A company called Du Pont owns a patent called Teflon. Who buys products with teflon coating?

Lending to rich gamblers. Well, where did u get the money to lend to rich gamblers in the first place?

Uhhh, from the central bank?

Last I checked, the central bank distributes money to other banks, who distributes the cash (through loans and investments) to everybody, and everybody circulates cash among themselves?

What's with the rich-need-the-poor implication anyway?

The poor need the rich too.

What about two middle class people? They need each other too.

Everybody needs each other.

[uls]

---

[Alpha_One]

Uhhh, never mind. I'm not giving an economics lecture on an Internet automotive forum. If that's your view of the world (no matter how simple-minded it is), so be it.

[the_wildthing]

We will be terribly off topic if I reply to your post. Suffice to say some businesses don't necessarily need the masses. I know of a very specific artist who sells his paintings to people who don't necessarily have tons of money, but because they like art.

But there will always be a "symbiotic" relationship between the classes. One cannot survive without the other.

If you keep complaining about it, why not do something about it?

[bad driver]

businesses that don't cater to the masses?

internet, microsoft, dvds/movies (not talking about nora aunor movies-hollywood.....yung pinipirata d2, Google, amazon, aol/time warner, carmakers. ****, real estate and prolly a lot more beyond my limited knowledge.

masses don't have or pay for these stuff so not all are keeping the little man down while milking him dry.

[oldblue]

no, "evil" was an exaggeration i used for effect. but don't deny that you're the one trying to malign the intentions of people in corporations who do charitable works, and imply that the reason for all these are full of ulterior motives. that implication is baseless, unfair, and offensive.

:

well just fyi, it's really the governments that started this. they encourage big businesses/corporations to get involved in social welfare such as building of schools, foundations and charities, in exchange for tax breaks.

Examples of these are Meralco Foundation, Ayala Foundation, Gokongwei Brother's Foundation etc etc....

but in my humble opinion, businesses/businessmen voluntarily give to charity or share their wealth for the very reason that they are aware of the "forces" that run our world. one cant afford to be too selfish or too greedy simply bec. the same force will take it back from them one way or another. even in Rich Dad, Poor Dad Book na-mention ito by the author, give and take relationship, be aware of the natural forces (cant remember the exact words).

most rich people in upscale subdivisions donate large sums to their respective parishes; corporations conduct nationwide outreach programs; SME's contribute to their respective local govt improvement projects for the poor.

why?

is it purely out of compassion, generosity, kindness? maybe. but I also believe that they are doing this to ensure the survival of their own immediate business setting (a mix of educated, rich, marginalized poor), to weed out unwanted "kharma" or sudden misfortunes or "uncalculated accidents" and to have a clear and "balanced" conscience and thinking -> free from guilt that they have taken so much from this world. with all of these sorted out, these businesses can continue to have steady undisturbed cashflow hence the money.


yun lang naman yun.

[oldblue]

.

I'm saddened by the fact that a lot of people instead of supporting or helping cast a shadow of doubt at the intentions of others. In all honesty, I really don't care if may motive yung ibang company. If it helps assure their market, i really don't give a rat's ass. All i care about is that people are being helped. There are people here in our country who have new homes and better living conditions.

As for those who say that indirectly big businesses rely on the poor. Maybe here but in 1st world countries not so much. They rely on masses sure but that doesn't mean poor ang masses.

We can go on and on about this.. The simple fact is, it's bad enough to just sit on the sidelines while others are doing something for the country and their fellow men. What's worse is sitting on the sideline and criticizing those who help.

*chairman, ito naman ang itatanong ko sa'yo. para naman balanced hehehe.

what if you're head of a department of your big corporation. for the entire year, your bosses have been pressuring you and your department to contribute. say 10% of the company's total projected output for that particular year. by achieving so, you had countless overtimes, holiday works, missed a lot family events, pinned in the middle of complaining tired employees and pressuring upper management, became a victim of office politics and bureacracy etc... etc ... then on January you present to your bosses the 10% na pinaghirapan mo and your department.

a week after, your company issues a press statement that they are donating 10% of the previous year's income to charity/foundations. and you found out from accounting that the money will be taken from your department's outputs/funds. pano na? is it ok for you and just accept it as your part in helping others. with all that sacrifice, halos napabayaan mo pamilya mo, sarili mo and not to mention the morale of your subordinates. can you accept that in the new year, you have an almost broken home family to fix, while other families get fixed from your "donation".



somehow siguro you'll think hindi dapat ganun na lang kadali yun. ganun din sa mga companies in general. by donating to charity a hefty sum or something in kind, may katumbas yun, number of manhours worked by a particular group, the resources, etc etc ...


businesses are in the business of making money. and I firmly believe that they view their charitable acts more as a form of investment.

[empy]

i guess i'll never get an answer to my question about "giving everything". oh well. it's too hard to have a discussion with someone who responds with rhetoric and not logical counterpoints.

oldblue, it might be true that some people give to charity for the pogi points. hell, maybe you've seen it happen many times. just be careful not to generalize that all businesses and businessmen give because they expect something in return. that simply is not true, and i take offense to anyone who says that.

and don't be fooled about the motives being all about the tax breaks - remember that even if you get a 30% tax deduction for charitable expenses, you still have to give 100 pesos to get back 30. not exactly a great return on equity :D

the rest of the stuff you said is too "New Age" for me

[empy]

what if you're head of a department of your big corporation. for the entire year, your bosses have been pressuring you and your department to contribute. say 10% of the company's total projected output for that particular year. by achieving so, you had countless overtimes, holiday works, missed a lot family events, pinned in the middle of complaining tired employees and pressuring upper management, became a victim of office politics and bureacracy etc... etc ... then on January you present to your bosses the 10% na pinaghirapan mo and your department.

a week after, your company issues a press statement that they are donating 10% of the previous year's income to charity/foundations. and you found out from accounting that the money will be taken from your department's outputs/funds. pano na? is it ok for you and just accept it as your part in helping others. with all that sacrifice, halos napabayaan mo pamilya mo, sarili mo and not to mention the morale of your subordinates. can you accept that in the new year, you have an almost broken home family to fix, while other families get fixed from your "donation".

does this actually happen, or is this a pure hypothetical situation?

maybe it's different over there, but department heads typically know exactly what goals they have to achieve, and what kind of bonus they will get if they meet those goals, at the beginning of the year. when my year-end numbers come in, i know how much money i'm going to get as a bonus (within a range) and the company can't suddenly change it without being in breach of contract.

charitable donations and gift-matching typically come from a different expense line. actually, i believe that it's a violation of GAAP (accounting principles) to take charitable expenses from your salaries and bonuses line.

also, like i said before, donations are not always a company writing a check. many times they are a bunch of employees raising funds from their own pockets for a good cause, or personally deciding to give their time and effort, with the company's blessing. that's much different now, isn't it?