Too many PASAWAY motorcycle RIDERS on the street

[Lucius]

Since last month, pag may nakikita ako na motor tapos alam ko na sisingit hinaharangan ko. Pag may mag-cut naman then may time and space pa ko to move, haharangan ko para biglang stop sila. Feels really good.

[Joned]

IMHO, motorcycles (like bikes) should be banned from major roads. Bus drivers surely will have difficult time seeing them. Moreover, they just ain't respectful enough of traffic laws now compared to the riders before. They swerve a lot and don't use signal lights. They remove their OEM side view mirrors and relace them with useless accesories or not at all. Cuts you all the time and just don't respect proper spacing during overtaking.

Stupid post above ^

To be countered by an equally stupid post below ↓

IMHO, cars should be banned from major roads. Since most drivers do not follow the road rules and turn a 5 lane road into a 8 lane road. They just ain't respectful enough of traffic laws now compared to the drivers before. They cut people off, and don't respect the space of others and the proper use of the lanes. They swerve a lot and don't use signal lights as well. They cause heavy traffic and are the main source of most accidents on the road.
__________________________________________________ _

"Don't blame the vehicle, blame the driver". Some people are just too dumb to figure that out, and tackle the root cause of the problem.

"Oh look! That car/motorcycle just hit that person and killed him. Quick!! Lets ban all of them from the road." GENIUS!!

[eojlin]

^
Ry_Tower's post is not stupid...
Underbones / bikes should not be on EDSA and C5.
To wish or expect that one day, every single driver would smarten up is stupid or shall we say "ignorant" (as you'd prefer). "GENIUS!!! "

We all know that there are more than enough reasons to ban underbones on highways - this is not a caged vs rider thing.

I've stated enough on page 14 of this thread - 'hope you noticed all three of them on the same page. http://tsikot.yehey.com/forums/showt...=22369&page=14

The only viable solution is to ban them on highways.

...
"Oh look! That car/motorcycle just hit that person and killed him. ...

These are accidents, no matter how stupid or genius you are, accidents happen.

Check out statistical reports on newspapers and TV, accidents involving motorcycles on major roads and highways are growing exponentially.

Does anybody else here notice that more riders don't use their bikes' licence plates, they leave them as ''For Registration". Do you know the reason why? Watch the news. Yes, some cars are like these, but it's like a 10 is to 1 ratio.

'Hope you get my point.

Ciao!

[Joned]

^
Ry_Tower's post is not stupid...
Underbones / bikes should not be on EDSA and C5.
To wish or expect that one day, every single driver would smarten up is stupid or shall we say "ignorant" (as you'd prefer). "GENIUS!!! "

We all know that there are more than enough reasons to ban underbones on highways - this is not a caged vs rider thing.

The only viable solution is to ban them on highways.



These are accidents, no matter how stupid or genius you are, accidents happen.

Check out statistical reports on newspapers and TV, accidents involving motorcycles on major roads and highways are growing exponentially.

Does anybody else here notice that more riders don't use their bikes' licence plates, they leave them as ''For Registration". Do you know the reason why? Watch the news. Yes, some cars are like these, but it's like a 10 is to 1 ratio.

'Hope you get my point.

Ciao!

Sounds like someone is too narrow minded to see the big picture on the causes of the traffic problems in the Philippines. Instead of tackling the root cause you would just put a band aid on the problem hence nothing really gets fixed. Sure you remove all poor people from the road and make their lives more complicated as they have to spend more on public transportation. In the process of such a "GENIUS IDEA", you end up increasing demand for public transportation. Get it? More buses, taxis, jeepneys on the road coupled with the same dumb public transport drivers we have. In the process also creating MORE TRAFFIC!!. So no, my friend. That idea is but a band aid and solves nothing. Banning a road legal vehicle that is capable of running at more than the average speed of traffic on the major roads you mentioned and equipped with the same devices required to make them road legal. Banning the vehicles instead of pressuring the government to improve driver education/licensing laws, and law enforcement which is a way cheaper investment in the long run. Sure, it seems like a good idea to you. Such simplicity, such laziness. Typical Filipino way. I wonder why this country goes backward while its neighbors inch forward.

No worries. You obviously hate MCs and love cars. It's human nature to not like groups different from your own. You say its not a cager vs. biker thing, but alas 90% of the time it is. Unless you have actually experienced both sides of the issue, all you have to say comes from the point of view of one side. All the problems you mentioned can be applied to most 4 wheeled users on the road as well but alas you can only see the 2 wheelers.

Accident statistics you mention. If you had a better understanding of the matter you would've seen that the reason for the increase in MC accidents can be attributed to the growth of the MC population. That is normal in any country. Increase in population and you also get an increase in accidents regardless of what vehicle it is. You see statistics from TV and newspapers. Sources that can be hardly considered reliable and complete. They show only a fraction of the statistics. Go to the LTO or whoever is in charge of the national statistics and see for yourself just how the totals of every vehicle differs. See the total accidents for MCs, cars, buses, trucks, etc. People like to say that "Big bikers have little to no accidents, so the users of big bikes must be more disciplined", only a ignorant person will think that way. It's all has to do with the population. Increase the big bike population 10 times and you will see an equivalent increase in accidents. Once china and korea start selling their cheap 600cc bikes in the country you will have lots of people buying them. Then you people will be screaming "Ban the big bikes from the road since the number of accidents involving big bikes are increasing". On and on and on the process repeats itself. I'm glad i'm not that stupid.

MC accidents are far away from reaching the daily accident totals that the 4 wheeled vehicles on the road have. Hell the numbers are miles apart, and that can simply be equated to the difference in population. The only reason people are reacting to them is because it is something new. It's only in the past 8 or so years that MCs have been growing in population in the country. People have gotten so used to seeing 4 wheeled accidents that they just brush them off as something insignificant/normal, and now come the 2 wheelers and it suddenly grabs everyones attention. Typical human nature right there.

Get it!? If not, then too bad. I've wasted enough of my knowledge for today.


Sayonara.

[CVT]

Hhhmmmm.... Magandang usapan ito.....

12.4K:knit:

[sgt_taga]

Stupid post above ^

To be countered by an equally stupid post below ↓

IMHO, cars should be banned from major roads. Since most drivers do not follow the road rules and turn a 5 lane road into a 8 lane road. They just ain't respectful enough of traffic laws now compared to the drivers before. They cut people off, and don't respect the space of others and the proper use of the lanes. They swerve a lot and don't use signal lights as well. They cause heavy traffic and are the main source of most accidents on the road.
__________________________________________________ _

"Don't blame the vehicle, blame the driver". Some people are just too dumb to figure that out, and tackle the root cause of the problem.

"Oh look! That car/motorcycle just hit that person and killed him. Quick!! Lets ban all of them from the road." GENIUS!!

easy lang brader. he was just saying his opinion - as what you are also doing on your posts. no need to be always combative.

[jonski]

Basta ako ang alam ko ay....sobrang kabado ako sa pagdrive kapag merong mga underbones na nakakasabay ko sa kalsada. Alam nyo na kung bakit.

[eojlin]

Sounds like someone is too narrow minded to see the big picture...
...
If you had a better understanding of the matter you would've seen that the reason for the increase in MC accidents can be attributed to the growth of the MC population.
...

Joned, Joned, Joned...
Relax, take a chill pill.
We heard you. But still...

What I did was to make you realize what you, yourself, just laid out on the table, then you turned out overly defensive about stuff.

Anyway, this is not a "bash Joned's ideas" thread, so we're not gonna do that here. Okay?

In fact, I read your posts and acknowledged your points. I even worked on your ideas. Now, cut me some slack.

I also asked you to back-read some messages/posts, but you seem to have misunderstood.

Fine, if it makes you happy, you may throw away statistics, news, and TV... but still, PEOPLE DO NOTICE. Deal with it.





Here's another one for everybody (Joned, this is not just about you. So relax... okay?) :

* Notwithstanding how fast underbone's can go on highways...
We just have to deal with the fact that highways are NOT made for planes, boats, rocket ships, submarines, and even formula one cars. (Yuh, I feel like I need to spit these out.)
Hell, we even have cars that we call street legal and those that are not (soup it up, you).
In the US, they have car pool lanes and eco/green lanes for eco cars (as some of us are fond of comparing ourselves with the US, and other regions, even if it's not workable).
We're not just talking about speed here. Get it?
What I'm trying to say is, underbones are not for highways. (Not just because I despise them on highways. Yes, I do despise them on highways - but this is not about me. Move on.)



People say, strengthen law enforcement and improve driver education or licensing laws. Guys, in what world do you live? I mean, seriously, come on. "Someone is not seeing the big picture."
Go ask law makers, law enforcers, or even driving instructors, they'll nod at you and tell you that they're doing things. And then what happens next?
[NY, US - notice where the truck is parked, notice the bike?] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:01...k_DSCN0822.JPG
[this one is for bikes] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cy...sion_risks.jpg


I am not being lazy here, I am just being realistic.
Again, sad to say, but there is really no room for underbones on our highways.
Clogging our roads with underbones won't get us anywhere. Leaving them on our highways just makes things worse.
And, please don't brand underbone riders as poor.


Btw, I'd love to have a Vespa. :D


If you don't know how to read this, well...

I'm glad i'm not that stupid.

Peace! You'll grow older, experience more, and understand things better.

I've wasted enough of my knowledge for today.

I see... I'm just getting warmed up. (Hehe, just teasing.)

Talk to you later!

[LexTer]

hmnnnn.... :popcorn:

[chua_riwap]

hmnnnn.... :popcorn:

bigyan kita :pepsi:

[Big_daddy]

Just want to share...

A former officemate of my father-in-law just recently suffered an accident due to a "ignorant" & "stupid", probably not so educated in driving MC rider.

The poor guy was getting off from a bus plying the Baclaran-MIA route. He was getting off at NAIA, with the bus stopped really close to the sidewalk when this MC popped up on his right side...evidently trying to overtake the bus on the passenger door side.

If that jerk had been properly taught now to drive a motor vehicle..then he would have taken his time and known when overtake on the left side of the bus or any vehicle for that matter.

The poor guy was hit on the right hip by the headlights/steering column..and almost turned 360' due to the impact. I'm not sure what injuries he sustained, but it was quite substantial...and to think that he was only on his way to work and minding his own business when this happened.

Personally, I think I'm starting to have a phobia when it comes to MC's on the road...specially when I drive with my family...coz despite all of the precautions that I take...defensively driving with morons on the road is getting more difficult to accomplish.

BTW..I don't hate all MC riders...I just hate all stupid and irresponsible drivers on the road, no matter what they drive.

[cjv_justice]

kita mo na yan... kawawa naman.

I used to have a motorcycle as a daily ride to work since malapit lang naman yung old workplace sa bahay. I enjoyed riding... very much actually and it saved me significant money kasi sobrang tipid talaga. Of course it does not leave my mind na kapag me nangyari sakin yung na-save ko na pera e pang-ospital na or worse, panlibing.

During those times I rode I have seen my share of idiocy of drivers and riders up close through the visor of my crash helmet, usually these happen at the front area of a traffic light where most riders 'assume' pole position. Most I've witnessed were riders hitting the fenders and mirrors of cars... there are quite a few of them to tell here but this one's noteworthy, a new Toyota Camry was hit by two riders who were weaving through gaps to get in front. The 1st one hit the rear tailight, the next bike was following too close, hit the car's right side mirror with his own, which left the Camry's mirror frame almost severed. Eto pa, the 2nd bike rider lost balance and hit the 1st bike (who hit the car first)... so kamusta naman. Well what happened next I'll just leave to you to imagine... those were the details I can remember that time.

The last straw was when I witnessed the biker in front of me was 'bike-jacked'. He had a brand-new Yamaha Mio Soul. While waiting for the light to change, the victim was beside this XRM u-bone with tandem riders. the pillion passenger alighted and saddled behind the victim. at first I thought they were companions because their helmets motioned like they were talking. But I quickly glanced upon a gun (a small revolver) being poked at the victim as the pillion rider from the XRM crossed over to the scooter, he even looked at my direction to check if i saw, good thing my visor was one-way so he could not see my eyes. I just froze in there and when the light changed, parang ganun lang they speed away like usual. I had to pull over the side beside a traffic enforcer, took off my lid and caught some air. The TE asked if I was ok... I told him what happened and his reaction, "TSK, TSK...!" I could not work well properly that day, I even dreaded riding home that night. Parang ako yung tinutukan at nawalan e.

eventually I sold the bike after I got married to give my wife peace of mind. I'd probably get another bike soon, a scooter perhaps but I'll just use it here in the village.

my apologies if may have veered off course with the topic. But moreover than having too many motorcycles in our streets, its having too many undisciplined motorists out there thats even more bothering... thanks for reading.

[badsekktor]

i guess the problem is still law enforcement and not the vehicle itself.....

the rampant increase of crimes and accidents may have been caused by making motorcycles affordable plus the poor law enforcement this country have.

But i guess we wont be expecting laws curtailing the sale of motorbikes since this is a flourishing industry on poor countries and suppliers/manufacturers would definitely lobby for them.

[Joned]

Joned, Joned, Joned...
Relax, take a chill pill.
We heard you. But still...

What I did was to make you realize what you, yourself, just laid out on the table, then you turned out overly defensive about stuff.

Anyway, this is not a "bash Joned's ideas" thread, so we're not gonna do that here. Okay?

In fact, I read your posts and acknowledged your points. I even worked on your ideas. Now, cut me some slack.

I also asked you to back-read some messages/posts, but you seem to have misunderstood.

Fine, if it makes you happy, you may throw away statistics, news, and TV... but still, PEOPLE DO NOTICE. Deal with it.





Here's another one for everybody (Joned, this is not just about you. So relax... okay?) :

* Notwithstanding how fast underbone's can go on highways...
We just have to deal with the fact that highways are NOT made for planes, boats, rocket ships, submarines, and even formula one cars. (Yuh, I feel like I need to spit these out.)
Hell, we even have cars that we call street legal and those that are not (soup it up, you).
In the US, they have car pool lanes and eco/green lanes for eco cars (as some of us are fond of comparing ourselves with the US, and other regions, even if it's not workable).
We're not just talking about speed here. Get it?
What I'm trying to say is, underbones are not for highways. (Not just because I despise them on highways. Yes, I do despise them on highways - but this is not about me. Move on.)



People say, strengthen law enforcement and improve driver education or licensing laws. Guys, in what world do you live? I mean, seriously, come on. "Someone is not seeing the big picture."
Go ask law makers, law enforcers, or even driving instructors, they'll nod at you and tell you that they're doing things. And then what happens next?
[NY, US - notice where the truck is parked, notice the bike?] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:01...k_DSCN0822.JPG
[this one is for bikes] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cy...sion_risks.jpg


I am not being lazy here, I am just being realistic.
Again, sad to say, but there is really no room for underbones on our highways.
Clogging our roads with underbones won't get us anywhere. Leaving them on our highways just makes things worse.
And, please don't brand underbone riders as poor.


Btw, I'd love to have a Vespa. :D


If you don't know how to read this, well...


Peace! You'll grow older, experience more, and understand things better.


I see... I'm just getting warmed up. (Hehe, just teasing.)

Talk to you later!

Based on the response. I take it you only understood about 50% of what is pointed out in my post. Oh well. An argument about highways, and planes, boats, etc... MC's are very different from the vehicles you mentioned and even the articles you posted apply only to bicycles. Bicycles are not MC's and are not road legal vehicles for use on highways or roadways. Any MC equipped with all the required equipment(signal lights, mirrors, etc.) is road legal. The highways in the Philippines have an average speed of 70-110kph. Any 150cc MC can maintain and exceed this speed. I still stand by my assessment that you see only a small part of the bigger picture. You fail to see the key points in my post and highlight just the minor ones. Exhibiting the key flaws in behavior that keeps the country from advancing.

You keep saying "Underbone or small motorcycles are not meant or have no room on our highways ie. Edsa, C5, etc." but fail to point out any good/valid reasons why they don't belong in the said highways aside from just your personal distaste for them. Your arguments on the matter can be likened to the arguments made by racists in the way that they are illogical and prejudiced. The whole argument is based on the how MC's have increasing accident rates, and the amount of undisciplined riders on the road. Hardly a valid argument to ban the vehicle from the road. Too simple and too shallow. An argument that can be countered by how the majority of 4 wheeled drivers are just as undisciplined and they outnumber MC users by the millions hence their accident rates are way higher and the amount of reckless drivers outnumber those of MC's. So should we ban cars as well?

I most likely can't expect any intelligent answer aside from the same flawed arguments that will end up in us just going around in circles much like the Philippines. A country that goes around in circles while neighbors go forward. Lovely country lots of potential, shame about the mentality that keeps the potential from being realized.

I'm out of this OT debate. :eviltongu


Let the bashing of undisciplined riders resume.

[claRkEnt]

just a point to ponder regarding statistics...

1. 2 MCs na nagkasagian... will this be reported and included in teh statistics? most likely not. tayo and then alis na pareho.

2. 2 cars na nagkasagian ... will this be part of statistics? for insurance purposes, most likely may blotter ito, and blotter is a tick mark sa stats.

3. car na nasabitan ng MC (with damage sa car) then coz very easy for the MC rider na tumalilis, he did so... part of stats?

[umi001]

Based on the response. I take it you only understood about 50% of what is pointed out in my post. Oh well. An argument about highways, and planes, boats, etc... MC's are very different from the vehicles you mentioned and even the articles you posted apply only to bicycles. Bicycles are not MC's and are not road legal vehicles for use on highways or roadways. Any MC equipped with all the required equipment(signal lights, mirrors, etc.) is road legal. The highways in the Philippines have an average speed of 70-110kph. Any 150cc MC can maintain and exceed this speed. I still stand by my assessment that you see only a small part of the bigger picture. You fail to see the key points in my post and highlight just the minor ones. Exhibiting the key flaws in behavior that keeps the country from advancing.

You keep saying "Underbone or small motorcycles are not meant or have no room on our highways ie. Edsa, C5, etc." but fail to point out any good/valid reasons why they don't belong in the said highways aside from just your personal distaste for them. Your arguments on the matter can be likened to the arguments made by racists in the way that they are illogical and prejudiced. The whole argument is based on the how MC's have increasing accident rates, and the amount of undisciplined riders on the road. Hardly a valid argument to ban the vehicle from the road. Too simple and too shallow. An argument that can be countered by how the majority of 4 wheeled drivers are just as undisciplined and they outnumber MC users by the millions hence their accident rates are way higher and the amount of reckless drivers outnumber those of MC's. So should we ban cars as well?

I most likely can't expect any intelligent answer aside from the same flawed arguments that will end up in us just going around in circles much like the Philippines. A country that goes around in circles while neighbors go forward. Lovely country lots of potential, shame about the mentality that keeps the potential from being realized.

I'm out of this OT debate. :eviltongu


Let the bashing of undisciplined riders resume.

The condescension, sir, is unnecessary - and, to be frank, immature.

[eojlin]

Based on the response. I take it you only understood about 50% of what is pointed out in my post.
...

You keep saying "Underbone or small motorcycles are not meant or have no room on our highways ie. Edsa, C5, etc." but fail to point out any good/valid reasons why they don't belong in the said highways
...

I most likely can't expect any intelligent answer aside from the same flawed arguments that will end up in us just going around in circles...
...

Let the bashing of undisciplined riders resume.

Hey, you're back! Wonderful.

Actually, if we are just going to do some back-reading, nobody is after who outnumbered who on the total number of logged road accidents in a span of X years. (misunderstanding, I guess... talk about "understanding 50%")
Did anybody here asked somebody on who won in the most number of accidents on the road in a span of X years? (funny, i don't remember anyone asking)


What was raised was... the dangers (eg. road accidents) of having these motorcycles are growing exponentially. (is it coming back to you now?)
The risks are becomming real serious.



Good reasons on why underbones should be banned from our highways were already pointed out much earlier (several pages ago and not just by me). Are we "lazy" now?





Still, these riders are just too many. They pose danger to most of us, to commuters, and even to themselves; and most often end up in unjust settlements (i've read a lot here). Aren't these enough? Add up the other reasons I posted much earlier.

We have trucks that can go more than 100kph and yet banned from our highways on certain times of the day - because of the dangers they pose to travellers. Or, you still don't get the point?

- We don't usually see cars driving/rolling on sidewalks.
- Riders can easily get away with traffic violations (don't expect traffic enforcers to chase all of them - think: 20 mad riders per traffic enforcer :: with radios). It's just much easier to stop larger vehicles.
- Underbones are now crooks' preferred getaway ride.
- You can see underbones remain "For Registration" for a looooong time - even the rickety ones.
- In intersections, what vehicles are resting on pedestrian lanes? Recently, what vehicles do we often catch beating red lights? (yell at traffic enforcers to chase them... okay... there goes one traffic enforcer away from the intersection - how many do we have left) (would you volunteer to be a traffic enforcer? how many traffic enforcers do we have now? do we have enough volunteers?)

...
I'm out of this OT debate. :eviltongu
...

You brought this to yourself.




Ban underbones on highways.

Let's not give up! Let us be heard. Keep talking.

[Leviticus]

Hey, you're back! Wonderful.

Actually, if we are just going to do some back-reading, nobody is after who outnumbered who on the total number of logged road accidents in a span of X years. (misunderstanding, I guess... talk about "understanding 50%")
Did anybody here asked somebody on who won in the most number of accidents on the road in a span of X years? (funny, i don't remember anyone asking)


What was raised was... the dangers (eg. road accidents) of having these motorcycles are growing exponentially. (is it coming back to you now?)
The risks are becomming real serious.



Good reasons on why underbones should be banned from our highways were already pointed out much earlier (several pages ago and not just by me). Are we "lazy" now?





Still, these riders are just too many. They pose danger to most of us, to commuters, and even to themselves; and most often end up in unjust settlements (i've read a lot here). Aren't these enough? Add up the other reasons I posted much earlier.

We have trucks that can go more than 100kph and yet banned from our highways on certain times of the day - because of the dangers they pose to travellers. Or, you still don't get the point?

- We don't usually see cars driving/rolling on sidewalks.
- Riders can easily get away with traffic violations (don't expect traffic enforcers to chase all of them - think: 20 mad riders per traffic enforcer :: with radios). It's just much easier to stop larger vehicles.
- Underbones are now crooks' preferred getaway ride.
- You can see underbones remain "For Registration" for a looooong time - even the rickety ones.
- In intersections, what vehicles are resting on pedestrian lanes? Recently, what vehicles do we often catch beating red lights? (yell at traffic enforcers to chase them... okay... there goes one traffic enforcer away from the intersection - how many do we have left) (would you volunteer to be a traffic enforcer? how many traffic enforcers do we have now? do we have enough volunteers?)




You brought this to yourself.




Ban underbones on highways.

Let's not give up! Let us be heard. Keep talking.

saksakan ng mali ang logic mo (as the other poster said) and I'm not even that much of a motorist.

I'd like to ask some questions directed to you-- but anyone can answer:

1. why not ban bad motorists on highways instead?
2. if an "undisciplined" rider get off his motorcycle and then drive a car, will that make him a "disciplined" motorist?

your arguments are too flimsy and can apply to cagers too. it's not the ride but the motorist/driver/rider.

[jave]

why not ban bad motorists on highways instead?

....what? Then what use is a highway when vehicles are banned from using it?

Personally, I'd agree on banning anything under 800cc (while you're at it, public jeepneys) from using high-speed roads, if only said reason was due to the fact that majority of drivers/riders here are morons and can't perform a overtaking maneuver properly. (to which causes a lot of accidents)

But maybe the more reasonable (and immensely difficult to enforce) option is to stick into the heads of idiots out there the concept of lanes, high speed lane, overtaking lane, slow speed lane, idiot (PUV) lane.

That way, slower or underpowered vehicles would keep to their side of the road, and more powerful vehicles wouldn't have to overtake them that much often.

Tall order, I know.

[sgt_taga]

saksakan ng mali ang logic mo (as the other poster said) and I'm not even that much of a motorist.

I'd like to ask some questions directed to you-- but anyone can answer:

1. why not ban bad motorists on highways instead?
2. if an "undisciplined" rider get off his motorcycle and then drive a car, will that make him a "disciplined" motorist?

your arguments are too flimsy and can apply to cagers too. it's not the ride but the motorist/driver/rider.

joned is that you???