Auto-LPG Conversion Thread

[theveed]

GH: Did the math, laking tipid nga hehe... Tipong pwede ka mag full tank less than 1K...

Technical question lang... Yung LPG route nya is from tank to the valve thing and then vaporizer and then fuel injector?

How will the injectors work if vapor nalang ang squinisquirt sa makina? Or binabypass na yung fuel rails?

2nd... Does the LPG tank utilizes the same fuel pump as the petrol tank o ibang linya sya talaga?

Salamat, just wanna know more about how it works and how the juices flow... Makes a lot of sense to get this than to buy a newer, small engined car.

Parang pwede ka nang bumili ng gwapong A31 Cefiro tapos LPG or any other older large cars hehe.

[ghosthunter]

GH: Did the math, laking tipid nga hehe... Tipong pwede ka mag full tank less than 1K...

Happy days would be back when we could say "Full Tank please" without the feeling of our wallets being stolen through the fuel filler cap.

Technical question lang... Yung LPG route nya is from tank to the valve thing and then vaporizer and then fuel injector?

I think so... regarding the fuel injector, I am not sure if the system uses the injectors or injects vaporized LPG after the throttle body.

How will the injectors work if vapor nalang ang squinisquirt sa makina? Or binabypass na yung fuel rails?

I am not sure about the LPG system by-passing the stock fuel rails.

2nd... Does the LPG tank utilizes the same fuel pump as the petrol tank o ibang linya sya talaga?

The LPG system doesn't use the stock fuel pump since it uses a totally different fuel line between the LPG tank to the vaporizer. And since the LPG itself is pressurized, I don't think it uses any pump to get from tank to vaporizer.

Parang pwede ka nang bumili ng gwapong A31 Cefiro tapos LPG or any other older large cars hehe.

Bigger engines would require a higher model vaporizer, hence a bit more expensive LPG kit, but I am on the same track as you on this one. Driving a big hunking sedan for the same cost per kilometer as the Honda Jazz 1.3L...

[theveed]

Hmm, pwede nang mag W126 na 2.8 liter hehehe.

[topgun]

i will post pictures as soon as my other car a honda civic gets converted

[ghosthunter]

Hmm, pwede nang mag W126 na 2.8 liter hehehe.

Has anyone considered if its possible to use the LPG kit on boosted cars? Technically it should be no problem... but...

[topgun]

NAIADSS:
2604 Orient Square Bldg, Don Francisco Ortigas Jr. Rd
Ortigas Center, Pasig City.
updated phone number
638-44-99

[theveed]

Nasa baba lang ng office namin yan ah hehe...

[theveed]

Dagdag lang:

LPG cars - cleaner on the road

Ownership of LPG cars is gathering speed. Did you know that over four million vehicles worldwide are now powered by LPG? - that number is increasing every day. So why have so many drivers switched from conventional petrol and diesel car driving to LPG cars, and why should you consider joining them?

We all know that using petrol or diesel can reduce air quality in cities and that the exhaust fumes contribute to the greenhouse effect. Filling your tank with LPG can help to reduce the impact your car makes on the environment around you.

For instance, LPG cars produce 90% fewer particulate emissions and 90% less Nitrogen Oxides than diesel engines. LPG engines produce 75% less Carbon Monoxide than petrol and have 87% less Ozone forming potential. If you spill LPG, it evaporates rather than soaking into and polluting the ground. LPG engines run up to 50% more quietly than diesel engines.

But what will helping to reduce pollution mean for you and your car?

Reduced vibration in LPG car engines, means longer engine life. As LPG is a gas in the engine, it doesn’t wash away oil from the cylinder walls. Wear and tear on LPG cars cylinder bores is lessened. This means that you don’t have to replace lubricating oils as frequently as on conventional engines. LPG cars are much cheaper than the equivalent petrol or diesel and there is often favourable tax or licensing concessions, which means running on LPG can save you money too. Crash and fire tests show that LPG tanks are safer than petrol.

In many countries, grants and subsidies help drivers convert conventional cars to LPG cars. In other words, LPG cars are a practical and clean alternative to petrol and diesel vehicles - and LPG is available now.

[theveed]

High powered LPG hybrids...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/business/3751583.stm

Good thread discussion... (UK ata)
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.re...b33979aa9d3cf4


Eto pa...



9.4 Why are CNG and LPG considered "cleaner" fuels.

CNG ( Compressed Natural Gas ) is usually around 70-90% methane with 10-20%
ethane, 2-8% propanes, and decreasing quantities of the higher HCs up to
butane. The fuel has a high octane and usually only trace quantities of
unsaturates. The emissions from CNG have lower concentrations of the
hydrocarbons responsible for photochemical smog, reduced CO, SOx, and NOx,
and the lean misfire limit is extended [117]. There are no technical
disadvantages, providing the installation is performed correctly. The major
disadvantage of compressed gas is the reduced range. Vehicles may have
between one to three cylinders ( 25 MPa, 90-120 litre capacity), and they
usually represent about 50% of the gasoline range. As natural gas pipelines
do not go everywhere, most conversions are dual-fuel with gasoline. The
ignition timing and stoichiometry are significantly different, but good
conversions will provide about 85% of the gasoline power over the full
operating range, with easy switching between the two fuels [118]. Concerns
about the safety of CNG have proved to be unfounded [119,120].

LPG ( Liquified Petroleum Gas ) is predominantly propane with iso-butane
and n-butane. It has one major advantage over CNG, the tanks do not have
to be high pressure, and the fuel is stored as a liquid. The fuel offers
most of the environmental benefits of CNG, including high octane.
Approximately 20-25% more fuel is required, unless the engine is optimised
( CR 12:1 ) for LPG, in which case there is no decrease in power or increase
in fuel consumption [27,118]. There have been several studies that have
compared the relative advantages of CNG and LPG, and often LPG has been
found to be a more suitable transportation fuel [118,120].

[theveed]

LPG on Turbos and Superchargers

Can Turbo and Supercharged engines be converted?


Yes they can, and very well if the job is done properly.

BUT! If the correct type of conversion equipment is not used the vehicle could be extremely dangerous..........


Open and Closed Loop single inductive mixer equipment is NOT suitable for the Conversion of any Turbocharged or Supercharged engine.

Read thorugh the description of both Open and Closed loop single mixer conversions to understand backfiring and is causes, then multiply the effect by the power of at least 6 for the gas capacity of the inside of the Supercharger, then you'll see why such an event would be very memorable indeed.

We are not speaking of a friendly little pop now and again, more like an eventual (ineviatable) explosion of large enough magnitude to take the Bonnet (and maybe even the Driver) with it.

That isn't the only risk either - Putting LPG vapour through a Supercharger will tend to dry out any lubricant in the rotor bearings which will end in Supercharger seizure sometime down the line. If such siezure does occur, it might just result in the snapping of the drive belt and a hefty bill for a new Supercharger unit. It could also result in a bill for a new engine if any broken Supercharger fragments are inducted.

For clarity, the only way a Turbocharged or Supercharged engine can be converted properly (safely) is by using correctly selected and installed multi point injection, like the XJR V8 or the Maserati Bi Turbo shown on our site.

http://go-lpg.co.uk/Turbo.html

[theveed]

While rare and usually caused by neglect... Tragedy can happen....

Leaky LPG line started fireball in family car

By Jamie Berry
September 2, 2003

The "dreadful" installation of an LPG fuel system caused a family car to explode, killing an eight-year-old boy and severely burning four other passengers in Cranbourne last year, an inquest heard yesterday.

Chad Clay died in the Royal Children's Hospital on September 22 last year. He suffered burns to 70 per cent of his body when his father's car was engulfed in flames just two streets away from their mother's home in Cranbourne North on August 25.

Peter Clay, 42, with his scarred hands in protective gloves, yesterday recalled the incident that left his three other children with extensive burns to between 20 and 70 per cent of their bodies.

Mr Clay told the Coroner's Court that he filled up his car with LPG at a Cranbourne service station shortly before the fire.

As he drove away, he lit a cigarette and the inside of the car "just ignited" he said. "There was no explosion, just instant flames throughout all of the inside of the car," he said.

Mr Clay steered the car off the road and tried to get his four children out, he said. He was driving Chad and his sisters Jessica, 12, and Rebecca, 11, and brother Ashley, 7, to the home of his ex-wife, Lynette Clay, when the 1985 Ford Falcon sedan exploded.

Mr Clay said that he had not smelled any gas in the car and said the children had not complained about an odour.

But Mr Clay's ex-wife said that Rebecca had smelt gas and had asked her father not to light the cigarette. Mrs Clay said that a short time later the girl heard "a loud explosion" coming from the car.

Mr Clay accused Mrs Clay's former lover, Mark Harrison, of "tampering" with the LPG tank the night before the crash. He said the night before the fire he heard someone tapping the car with what he thought might have been a spanner, or hammer.

Mr Harrison told the court Mrs Clay had asked him on several occasions to "fix Peter up". "By this, I mean that she has asked me to bash him up or do something to his house or car," Mr Harrison said.

He denied tampering with the car and said it had been an unsafe "bomb", and said the passenger doors could only be opened from outside the car. Mrs Clay also denied the allegations.

Mr Clay said he bought the car from a former workmate, David Beaney.He said Mr Beaney had fitted the LPG system but said it was "a rough job".

The inquest heard the system had been fitted with ill-fitting plumbing parts and vibrated against the boot. It had not been securely fastened or covered.

Metropolitan Fire Brigade station officer Alex Conway told the inquest that an incorrectly fitted fuel line was cracked and had released gas into the passenger cabin. Forensic scientist John Kelleher said the installation was "dreadful" and the leak was probably caused by overtightening the fuel line.

The inquest continues.

====

BUT

The same thing will happen with a tampered and leaking PETROL car...

[theveed]

Kaya..

http://www.go-lpg.co.uk/danger.html

Is my car more dangerous when it has been converted to run on LPG?


No it isn't.


To fully understand why this is so, we must first look closely at the way Petrol And Diesel are stored in our vehicles. We don't tend to give this a lot of thought as it has become a part of our everyday lives. We have become accustomed to the associated risks through familiarity. Petrol and Diesel tanks are so commonplace that they have taken on an almost 'cosy' image, their safety is assumed. In reality, any Petrol or Diesel tank is the equivalent of a small bomb, whether it be completely full or practically empty.

It is not the aim of the writer to make you worry about the risks of carrying a Petrol or Diesel tank, merely a way of looking at this question in the light of the risks we (motorist and general public alike) already accept.

To do that, let's consider how the modern fuel tank has evolved.


Excluding fire risks (which we'll deal with later on) there are two main areas where a vehicle designer / manufacturer has to think carefully about safety when storing large amounts of volatile and highly flammable liquid Petrol or Diesel in a tank.


1. Static structural integrity of the tank (when the vehicle is not moving)

The designer of a new vehicle is under constant pressure to keep all - up weight to a minimum (and therefore improve fuel endurance). The weight of a fuel tank (in general terms, directly linked to the thickness of the material it is made of) has to be as low as possible. Fuel tanks are therefore made out of the thinnest material they can be, whilst they must remain structurally sound (keep their shape) when they are full of relatively heavy liquid fuel.

For instance, a 20 gallon (90 litre) petrol tank has to be able to bear the 142.56 Lbs* weight of its contents and still retain its shape. (Incidentally, Diesel is heavier still.) The most interesting point is that the tank is only designed to do this when it is mounted up to (or into) the vehicle by bolts and / or straps using the designed mounting points and other fixings.

* 90 litres x 0.72 Kgs = 64.8 Kgs or 142.56 Lbs

This does not mean that an unmounted tank will be able to stay in shape. Indeed, many full fuel tanks are incapable of remaining structurally rigid if removed from their mountings, even if they are not moving. Any flexing of the metal the tank is made of can ultimately cause it to fracture as a result of fatigue. (For completeness, it must be said that plastic tanks are much better at coping with this problem.)

In real terms then, most Petrol and Diesel tanks are only just strong enough to contain the fuel when rigidity is 'borrowed' from the vehicle's main structure.


2. Dynamic structural integrity of the tank (when the vehicle is moving)

The tank must be strong enough to contain a full load of liquid fuel when the vehicle (a) stops suddenly and inertia and momentum make the fuel continue in the original direction of travel (putting pressure on the tank walls by hitting them) and (b) during a crushing impact from outside (as in the vehicle's collision with another object) that may deform the tank. The tank must resist this deformation or absorb the energy by 'crumpling' as it may split or rupture (especially at the seams) just like a balloon full of water.

One of the reasons that the Jaguar XJ6 series 3 was the last Jaguar to have twin tanks mounted in the rear wings was that the US Govt. decided that this presented an unacceptably high risk on the roads. A rear end impact could split either (or both) tank(s), resulting in catastrophe (although in fairness, it was NOT the stout XJ6 that figured large in the statisitics, but an American car that had one large fuel tank placed at the very rear). Ok, so that's part of the design of Petrol and Diesel tanks.


What of the LPG tank?


An LPG tank is by nature quite different to a Petrol or Diesel tank because it holds liquid fuel at pressure. This means that it has to be made of much thicker gauge material, and thus it is far stronger than a Petrol or Diesel tank. An LPG tank is designed to hold fuel at a pressure of around 7.5 bar (105 Lbs per sq. inch or psi) but before it is approved for road use it must be tested to an internal pressure of 48 bar (672 psi). (All LPG tanks are tested in this way, whereas Petrol tanks are tested much more lightly.)

An LPG tank is therefore many times stronger than an average Petrol or Diesel tank and is much more able to withstand pressure deviations from within itself (say due to expansion of its contents due to an increase in temperature) or impact from outside (e.g. if the vehicle is in a collision).

Further to that, the LPG tank does NOT rely on its mountings to retain its structural integrity - It will maintain its shape anywhere, and do so in any position.

To put it plainly (and DON'T try this at home!) If a full LPG tank and a full Petrol tank were dropped from an equal height, it is likely that the Petrol tank would burst on impact with the ground. The LPG tank would probably just bounce, perhaps become dented, but NOT release its contents.

So, we have dealt with the structural safety (integrity) of the LPG tank.

What about the remainder of the system?

What happens if the fuel pipes are severed in an accident?

In Petrol or Diesel fuel systems (especially later models and vehicles with fuel injection) the fuel supply is cut if the vehicle suffers an impact. This is achieved by fitting an inertia switch or similar into the electric fuel pump circuit. Note that in many cases this system does not afford any protection against a ruptured or severed fuel pipe if the impact is not sufficiently strong enough to activate the inertia switch (failing to cut the power to the fuel pump).

LPG systems have protection against both occurrences. The fuel supply is connected to the existing inertia switch AND has shut - off valves provided on the tank outlet to stop any leakage of fuel should any (or all) of the pipes be severed. Indeed, if BOTH the fuel pipe from the filler to the LPG tank and the fuel pipe from the tank to the engine bay are cut, this will still not result in any release of fuel. (It is possible to undo the pipes leading to an LPG tank and remove it from the vehicle with negligable release of gas (again, do NOT try this at home!) Try doing THAT with a Petrol tank! (NO, don't!)

What about fire risks?

An LPG system already addresses most fire risks by ensuring that no fuel can escape, preventing it from making any impact induced fire more severe.

But there is another problem to consider. What if the vehicle is burning so badly that the fuel tank is heated by the flames?

Again, a metal Petrol or Diesel tank affords little protection here, and a plastic tank will actually melt. Only moderate amounts of heating from the outside will result in a catastrophic explosion, spreading burning liquid fuel all around the scene. (Pound for pound, liquid Petrol has an explosive potential approaching that of Dynamite.)

An LPG tank, however, is designed to slowly release its contents via a safety valve (much the same as those fitted to compressor tanks or steam engine boilers). If the pressure within the tank becomes greater than a preset level, the valve will 'blow off'. The preset level is much less than the pressure that would cause the tank to explode. Admittedly, the venting of gas will probably result in a jet of flame, but at least some control of its direction is afforded and an explosion is avoided.


Conclusion

Considering all of the factors above, an LPG fuel system is quite a lot safer than most Petrol or Diesel systems.

Any risk that is added when a vehicle is converted to run on LPG is significantly less than the risk(s) we already (readily) accept.

A dual fuel (e.g. Petrol and LPG ) vehicle cannot be any safer because it retains the original risk, but it is certainly no less safe than it was before the conversion was carried out.

A vehicle with no Petrol or Diesel fuel system at all (a dedicated LPG vehicle) would be significantly safer than any of the above.......

[chuaed]

http://www.gov.ph/forum/thread.asp?r...12379&catID=28

ngayon ko lang nakita ito... whats your take on this guys???

[ghosthunter]

http://www.gov.ph/forum/thread.asp?r...12379&catID=28

ngayon ko lang nakita ito... whats your take on this guys???

if you read it carefully, 90% of the stuff written are just "claims" of what the so-called device can do. The other 10% is just scientific mumbo-jumbo which means totally nothing but trying to get some sort of creditbility to the science illiterate.

[theveed]

BTW, wala na yung office ng NAIADSS dito sa Orient Square, I went down kanina wala na sila, lumipat na sa Sheridan.

[theveed]

Eto Feroza converted...

http://www.daihatsuclubph.org/forum/...er=asc&start=0

[woulfe27]

From http://www.gov.ph/forum/thread.asp?r...12379&catID=28


NO NEED TO CONVERT INTO AUTOGAS

One of the most important feature of HMD is that it can be a conventional gadget to take on any gases as fuel be it an LPG, CNG or even biogas without any conversion. It was noted during previous test that merging LPG into the HMD system, more savings is attained at 200% for vehicle and 300% for motorcycle with better engine or motor performance.

pano to, dabid? instead of using fuel, nag-gegenerate ng fuel yung cars and motorcycles? bwehehehehe

[theveed]

Hehe galing ng figures...

On a standard feature the vehicle was able to demonstrate almost the same engine performance, that are:

1.Engine oil can be mixed with water at 200 mL per 50 kilometers which significantly improve engine performance rather than provide adverse outcome;
2.The vehicle can start/accelerate at high gear engagement without dragging nor shifting to lower gear position;
3.Engine can start even water is poured inside the carburetor; (Not demonstrated)
4.It accelerates its own momentum at 5 degrees feet pressure on the accelerator pedal there and thereafter ; Hanep, breaking the laws of physics hehe.
5.It can run at 25-30 kph or at 700 rpm at high gear position;
6.Engine temperature is only reaching 45 oC even in a hot-road temperature;
7.Adds 35% engine power and gives better performance when using only ordinary gasoline;

Pero mas OK padin Aerogas (save 50% fuel) at Khaos (save another 50%)... Perpetual motion machine ka na zero fuel needs :D

[woulfe27]

pati Volvo naka LPG na rin. pero mas ganda fuel gauge nila, pwede ka maglaro ng pinball hehe

http://www.vvspy.com/news/0104/010416a.php

[theveed]

ganda nung gauge, hehe.