Auto-LPG Conversion Thread

[bigfootoz]

Did your shop did conversion jobs on a Suzuki APV? Are you offering SGI kits just now? I thought you had this long ago.

for the APV we could easily convert using the Close loop system since we have already done a joint project with another conversion company for the Airport units.

for the SGI kits, we are now waiting for the SGI kits to arrive from Korea if everything goes well we should have the kits by the end of September.

[quan2boy]

Just to share.

if SGI yung kit mo then we have the same problem.


Car: 2004 mitsubishi outlander

Observations
1. Check engine lighted
2. after 30 minutes, medyo hirap umabante, kahit nakaflooring na yung gas pedal mabagal acceleration.
3. LPG fuel gauge nagloloko.

Will have it checked this coming monday afternoon.

*aamd - Medyo ok na kotse ko pare! Was at Greenfuel yesterday. Si Mike mismo nag-ayos! Pati yung engine check indicator ko, nadiskartehan nya. Yung problem ko sa engine check indicator wasn't related to the LPG kit per se. Apparently, in the process of installing yung kit, nahugot yung knock sensor (?) wire. Nasa ilalim kasi ng makina yung wire kaya di kaagad napansin. Good thing nadun si Mike!

Yung problem ko naman sa hatak after 30 minutes of Edsa driving, eh malaki na rin improvement! It's still not like gasoline, but it's good enough for everyday driving. I don't know how to exactly quantify the power loss pero pag nagloloko sya after 30 minutes of driving, imbes na 2.2 yung engine nya, feel ko para bang 1.6 na lang yung dala ko. But again it's good enough for me for city driving. Siguro isang pasyal pa sa Greenfuel, perfect na 'to! Pero yung first 30 minutes ng driving ko, walang problema. Parang gasoline talaga ang pick-up nya!

[aamd]

*aamd - Medyo ok na kotse ko pare! Was at Greenfuel yesterday. Si Mike mismo nag-ayos! Pati yung engine check indicator ko, nadiskartehan nya. Yung problem ko sa engine check indicator wasn't related to the LPG kit per se. Apparently, in the process of installing yung kit, nahugot yung knock sensor (?) wire. Nasa ilalim kasi ng makina yung wire kaya di kaagad napansin. Good thing nadun si Mike!

Yung problem ko naman sa hatak after 30 minutes of Edsa driving, eh malaki na rin improvement! It's still not like gasoline, but it's good enough for everyday driving. I don't know how to exactly quantify the power loss pero pag nagloloko sya after 30 minutes of driving, imbes na 2.2 yung engine nya, feel ko para bang 1.6 na lang yung dala ko. But again it's good enough for me for city driving. Siguro isang pasyal pa sa Greenfuel, perfect na 'to! Pero yung first 30 minutes ng driving ko, walang problema. Parang gasoline talaga ang pick-up nya!

*quan2boy

good to hear pre.

Lorna of greenfuel called me up. naka schedule ako this monday afternoon. hopefully, the car of my wife will be available by that time.

Actually, availability of the car din yung problem ko. Everyday ginagamit sya. sa hapon lang puede tapos after 5pm ba.

Again, thanks for the update.

[niky]

I'm doing testing and observation right now... I've been discussing this (offline) with Ghosthunter at length, and we're theorizing it has something to do with vaporizer pressure and temperatures at idle.

When the car is idling, there will be times that the thermostat will close as the coolant temperature gets lower... this will cause a change of flow to the vaporizer, and a change of vapor pressure... or... if the car just gets cooler in general, this may cause the vapor pressure to drop... will try to do instrumented temperature testing... it might be that for people with this problem, a second vaporizer or an upsized vaporizer would help... discussed with Speedlab also the possibility of an electric heater on the vaporizer, but that's an idea for the future, for customization.

I notice the loss in performance, too... but after a few minutes of hard running, the power comes back. That's why I suspect it's a loss of vapor pressure due to cold conditions (at least on my car).

[XOOMaster]

XOOMaster, is there a chance NOT to drill at the manifold?

MFB, to your other Q, when someone bores a hole on the part of the engine, we crossed the point of no return. It's still possible to transfer the kit, but I don't like the idea of putting a cap on those holes.

Better off selling the car (with a higher price) with the kit. Who knows, there maybe newer kits in the market.

I agree. Its better to leave the conversion as is even when selling. As for NOT drilling holes. This month we are going to test something new what would do without drilling holes I'll update you once we finish tests. For now though for SGI drilling holes is a requisite.
You could also take a look at EFI Systems. This uses mixer like Carb kits but has an Emulator that tells the Petrol injectors to open or close. A warning for most systems like this, they are not recommended to be installed on cars with PLASTIC MANIFOLDS because they tend to backfire.

[MFB]

I decided and got the prins system. The official distributor locally is StarGas Phils. There name does not appear on the Prins website yet but this was confirmed by Prins via email. My kit should be arriving end of next week.

http://www.prins-lpg.com/en/prins/

What's the issue with covering the manifold once the LPG system is removed?

[ssalonga]

I'm doing testing and observation right now... I've been discussing this (offline) with Ghosthunter at length, and we're theorizing it has something to do with vaporizer pressure and temperatures at idle.

When the car is idling, there will be times that the thermostat will close as the coolant temperature gets lower... this will cause a change of flow to the vaporizer, and a change of vapor pressure... or... if the car just gets cooler in general, this may cause the vapor pressure to drop... will try to do instrumented temperature testing... it might be that for people with this problem, a second vaporizer or an upsized vaporizer would help... discussed with Speedlab also the possibility of an electric heater on the vaporizer, but that's an idea for the future, for customization.

I notice the loss in performance, too... but after a few minutes of hard running, the power comes back. That's why I suspect it's a loss of vapor pressure due to cold conditions (at least on my car).

Hi niky. I couldn't help commenting as I have been tinkering with my own LPG cars for more than 3 years.

May I know, what seems to be the problem with your car? Is the idling rough and the idling speed changes off and on?

I have had quite a bit of experience with my own cars, both venturi mixers in regard to finding a consistent and stable idling speed, esp. with air-con compressor.

Just a comment on your theory, if you don't mind. The heater water circuit does not share pressure with the vapor regulator chamber, it merely provides heating to a coil located in the vapor chamber.

Consequently, the diaphragm that regulates the vapor pressure is not affected directly or indirectly except perhaps by temperature though I believe the diaphragm does compensate for that also.

What in fact affects the vaporiser diaphragm is the vacuum pressure from the intake manifold which moves the diaphragm against the spring that holds back the vapor. Perhaps a check on your vacuum lines and intake manifold for vacuum leaks might solve the problem. It may take a while but this ultimately solved the problem for me.

The other place to look is your ignition system. Petrol is more forgiving of a defective or substandard spark, but not LPG. We need a clean strong spark to fire that thin gassy mixture! Any weakness in the system, will result in rough idling or even loss of power.......

hope that helps,

steve

[straker]

I've dropped by a couple of shops to check out if my car (Suzuki APV) can take in this kit.

At GreenFuel, estimated cost for the kit is 42T for a 60 liter cylinder. Need to shell out more for a toriod type. Estimated conversion time, 3 days. Its close to my parent's home, so I could borrow their cars while its being done.

At AmbiEnergy, its 65T for a 40 liter cylinder. They can do the job within the day, provided they start it when the shop opens in the morning. If you want, you could either watch them do the installation, or goto ABS & watch their shows live. When I went there, I was lucky enough to see an APV being converted. Pricey nga, but their techs know what to do, instead of figuring it out first. They're not advising me to use a toroid tank, as its relatively big size would cause ground clearance issue. This is my only setback with them. I didn't get to see a whole kit as the kits on hand are being fitted into the cars, the rest in a warehouse in a another location. I'm also given the choice to use the fuel intake nozzle, either the regular big pipe to be mounted somewhere in the bumper area or the smaller, to fit beside the main fuel nozzle.

Both shops at COD basis. All jobs need to be scheduled first...no drop-ins or gatecrashers.

[Mile2]

I'm doing testing and observation right now... I've been discussing this (offline) with Ghosthunter at length, and we're theorizing it has something to do with vaporizer pressure and temperatures at idle.

When the car is idling, there will be times that the thermostat will close as the coolant temperature gets lower... this will cause a change of flow to the vaporizer, and a change of vapor pressure... or... if the car just gets cooler in general, this may cause the vapor pressure to drop... will try to do instrumented temperature testing... it might be that for people with this problem, a second vaporizer or an upsized vaporizer would help... discussed with Speedlab also the possibility of an electric heater on the vaporizer, but that's an idea for the future, for customization.

I notice the loss in performance, too... but after a few minutes of hard running, the power comes back. That's why I suspect it's a loss of vapor pressure due to cold conditions (at least on my car).

I was also having the same problem, the most Mike did was set the vaporizer at the middle setting and he instruct me to adjust the diaphragm either clockwise or counter clockwise to find the most appropriate setting. What I noticed was I can only adjust it to 7 turns from zero or else engine will die out of overwhelmed fuel injected, but from zero to 1/4 turn and up to 6 turns engine will run okay but intermittently having idling drops and sometimes will stall. GreenFuel already replace my injector rails in anticipation that this is causing the problem but I guess it is not in my observation.

I see no difference in engine performance doing 1/4 turn on the diaphragm or even up to six turns but this puzzle me. Could I have a defective vaporizer diaphragm?

What bothers me was sometimes when I'm idling at traffic sometimes the engine dies out on LPG but not on Gasoline. I would need to run hard to gain normal idling again?

Some LPG vaporizer on the net has pressure sensor and even the injector rails has pressure sensor.

Please let us know if an upsized vaporizer will solve this.

[niky]

Hmm... will have to consult with Mike on that.

RE: vacuum... ssalonga: have already been along that route, and plugged some vacuum leaks, but I want to have my fittings double-checked again to eliminate this... ignition system is fine... but its possible, since ignition coils are a known wear item on this engine.

I'm focused on the vaporizer since the problem seems to be related to the time of day and traffic conditions... cold running will not cause ignition coil issues or vacuum problems, but it will lower water temp, which may affect vaporizer function.

*Mile2: your case might be idle vacuum related... try to do some throttle-body cleaning and check your idle vacuum... or maybe add some timing advance (if your car has a distributor cap) to bump your power at idle a bit for LPG.