Auto-LPG Conversion Thread

[bigfootoz]

Did your shop did conversion jobs on a Suzuki APV? Are you offering SGI kits just now? I thought you had this long ago.

for the APV we could easily convert using the Close loop system since we have already done a joint project with another conversion company for the Airport units.

for the SGI kits, we are now waiting for the SGI kits to arrive from Korea if everything goes well we should have the kits by the end of September.

[quan2boy]

Just to share.

if SGI yung kit mo then we have the same problem.


Car: 2004 mitsubishi outlander

Observations
1. Check engine lighted
2. after 30 minutes, medyo hirap umabante, kahit nakaflooring na yung gas pedal mabagal acceleration.
3. LPG fuel gauge nagloloko.

Will have it checked this coming monday afternoon.

*aamd - Medyo ok na kotse ko pare! Was at Greenfuel yesterday. Si Mike mismo nag-ayos! Pati yung engine check indicator ko, nadiskartehan nya. Yung problem ko sa engine check indicator wasn't related to the LPG kit per se. Apparently, in the process of installing yung kit, nahugot yung knock sensor (?) wire. Nasa ilalim kasi ng makina yung wire kaya di kaagad napansin. Good thing nadun si Mike!

Yung problem ko naman sa hatak after 30 minutes of Edsa driving, eh malaki na rin improvement! It's still not like gasoline, but it's good enough for everyday driving. I don't know how to exactly quantify the power loss pero pag nagloloko sya after 30 minutes of driving, imbes na 2.2 yung engine nya, feel ko para bang 1.6 na lang yung dala ko. But again it's good enough for me for city driving. Siguro isang pasyal pa sa Greenfuel, perfect na 'to! Pero yung first 30 minutes ng driving ko, walang problema. Parang gasoline talaga ang pick-up nya!

[aamd]

*aamd - Medyo ok na kotse ko pare! Was at Greenfuel yesterday. Si Mike mismo nag-ayos! Pati yung engine check indicator ko, nadiskartehan nya. Yung problem ko sa engine check indicator wasn't related to the LPG kit per se. Apparently, in the process of installing yung kit, nahugot yung knock sensor (?) wire. Nasa ilalim kasi ng makina yung wire kaya di kaagad napansin. Good thing nadun si Mike!

Yung problem ko naman sa hatak after 30 minutes of Edsa driving, eh malaki na rin improvement! It's still not like gasoline, but it's good enough for everyday driving. I don't know how to exactly quantify the power loss pero pag nagloloko sya after 30 minutes of driving, imbes na 2.2 yung engine nya, feel ko para bang 1.6 na lang yung dala ko. But again it's good enough for me for city driving. Siguro isang pasyal pa sa Greenfuel, perfect na 'to! Pero yung first 30 minutes ng driving ko, walang problema. Parang gasoline talaga ang pick-up nya!

*quan2boy

good to hear pre.

Lorna of greenfuel called me up. naka schedule ako this monday afternoon. hopefully, the car of my wife will be available by that time.

Actually, availability of the car din yung problem ko. Everyday ginagamit sya. sa hapon lang puede tapos after 5pm ba.

Again, thanks for the update.

[niky]

I'm doing testing and observation right now... I've been discussing this (offline) with Ghosthunter at length, and we're theorizing it has something to do with vaporizer pressure and temperatures at idle.

When the car is idling, there will be times that the thermostat will close as the coolant temperature gets lower... this will cause a change of flow to the vaporizer, and a change of vapor pressure... or... if the car just gets cooler in general, this may cause the vapor pressure to drop... will try to do instrumented temperature testing... it might be that for people with this problem, a second vaporizer or an upsized vaporizer would help... discussed with Speedlab also the possibility of an electric heater on the vaporizer, but that's an idea for the future, for customization.

I notice the loss in performance, too... but after a few minutes of hard running, the power comes back. That's why I suspect it's a loss of vapor pressure due to cold conditions (at least on my car).

[XOOMaster]

XOOMaster, is there a chance NOT to drill at the manifold?

MFB, to your other Q, when someone bores a hole on the part of the engine, we crossed the point of no return. It's still possible to transfer the kit, but I don't like the idea of putting a cap on those holes.

Better off selling the car (with a higher price) with the kit. Who knows, there maybe newer kits in the market.

I agree. Its better to leave the conversion as is even when selling. As for NOT drilling holes. This month we are going to test something new what would do without drilling holes I'll update you once we finish tests. For now though for SGI drilling holes is a requisite.
You could also take a look at EFI Systems. This uses mixer like Carb kits but has an Emulator that tells the Petrol injectors to open or close. A warning for most systems like this, they are not recommended to be installed on cars with PLASTIC MANIFOLDS because they tend to backfire.

[MFB]

I decided and got the prins system. The official distributor locally is StarGas Phils. There name does not appear on the Prins website yet but this was confirmed by Prins via email. My kit should be arriving end of next week.

http://www.prins-lpg.com/en/prins/

What's the issue with covering the manifold once the LPG system is removed?

[ssalonga]

I'm doing testing and observation right now... I've been discussing this (offline) with Ghosthunter at length, and we're theorizing it has something to do with vaporizer pressure and temperatures at idle.

When the car is idling, there will be times that the thermostat will close as the coolant temperature gets lower... this will cause a change of flow to the vaporizer, and a change of vapor pressure... or... if the car just gets cooler in general, this may cause the vapor pressure to drop... will try to do instrumented temperature testing... it might be that for people with this problem, a second vaporizer or an upsized vaporizer would help... discussed with Speedlab also the possibility of an electric heater on the vaporizer, but that's an idea for the future, for customization.

I notice the loss in performance, too... but after a few minutes of hard running, the power comes back. That's why I suspect it's a loss of vapor pressure due to cold conditions (at least on my car).

Hi niky. I couldn't help commenting as I have been tinkering with my own LPG cars for more than 3 years.

May I know, what seems to be the problem with your car? Is the idling rough and the idling speed changes off and on?

I have had quite a bit of experience with my own cars, both venturi mixers in regard to finding a consistent and stable idling speed, esp. with air-con compressor.

Just a comment on your theory, if you don't mind. The heater water circuit does not share pressure with the vapor regulator chamber, it merely provides heating to a coil located in the vapor chamber.

Consequently, the diaphragm that regulates the vapor pressure is not affected directly or indirectly except perhaps by temperature though I believe the diaphragm does compensate for that also.

What in fact affects the vaporiser diaphragm is the vacuum pressure from the intake manifold which moves the diaphragm against the spring that holds back the vapor. Perhaps a check on your vacuum lines and intake manifold for vacuum leaks might solve the problem. It may take a while but this ultimately solved the problem for me.

The other place to look is your ignition system. Petrol is more forgiving of a defective or substandard spark, but not LPG. We need a clean strong spark to fire that thin gassy mixture! Any weakness in the system, will result in rough idling or even loss of power.......

hope that helps,

steve

[straker]

I've dropped by a couple of shops to check out if my car (Suzuki APV) can take in this kit.

At GreenFuel, estimated cost for the kit is 42T for a 60 liter cylinder. Need to shell out more for a toriod type. Estimated conversion time, 3 days. Its close to my parent's home, so I could borrow their cars while its being done.

At AmbiEnergy, its 65T for a 40 liter cylinder. They can do the job within the day, provided they start it when the shop opens in the morning. If you want, you could either watch them do the installation, or goto ABS & watch their shows live. When I went there, I was lucky enough to see an APV being converted. Pricey nga, but their techs know what to do, instead of figuring it out first. They're not advising me to use a toroid tank, as its relatively big size would cause ground clearance issue. This is my only setback with them. I didn't get to see a whole kit as the kits on hand are being fitted into the cars, the rest in a warehouse in a another location. I'm also given the choice to use the fuel intake nozzle, either the regular big pipe to be mounted somewhere in the bumper area or the smaller, to fit beside the main fuel nozzle.

Both shops at COD basis. All jobs need to be scheduled first...no drop-ins or gatecrashers.

[Mile2]

I'm doing testing and observation right now... I've been discussing this (offline) with Ghosthunter at length, and we're theorizing it has something to do with vaporizer pressure and temperatures at idle.

When the car is idling, there will be times that the thermostat will close as the coolant temperature gets lower... this will cause a change of flow to the vaporizer, and a change of vapor pressure... or... if the car just gets cooler in general, this may cause the vapor pressure to drop... will try to do instrumented temperature testing... it might be that for people with this problem, a second vaporizer or an upsized vaporizer would help... discussed with Speedlab also the possibility of an electric heater on the vaporizer, but that's an idea for the future, for customization.

I notice the loss in performance, too... but after a few minutes of hard running, the power comes back. That's why I suspect it's a loss of vapor pressure due to cold conditions (at least on my car).

I was also having the same problem, the most Mike did was set the vaporizer at the middle setting and he instruct me to adjust the diaphragm either clockwise or counter clockwise to find the most appropriate setting. What I noticed was I can only adjust it to 7 turns from zero or else engine will die out of overwhelmed fuel injected, but from zero to 1/4 turn and up to 6 turns engine will run okay but intermittently having idling drops and sometimes will stall. GreenFuel already replace my injector rails in anticipation that this is causing the problem but I guess it is not in my observation.

I see no difference in engine performance doing 1/4 turn on the diaphragm or even up to six turns but this puzzle me. Could I have a defective vaporizer diaphragm?

What bothers me was sometimes when I'm idling at traffic sometimes the engine dies out on LPG but not on Gasoline. I would need to run hard to gain normal idling again?

Some LPG vaporizer on the net has pressure sensor and even the injector rails has pressure sensor.

Please let us know if an upsized vaporizer will solve this.

[niky]

Hmm... will have to consult with Mike on that.

RE: vacuum... ssalonga: have already been along that route, and plugged some vacuum leaks, but I want to have my fittings double-checked again to eliminate this... ignition system is fine... but its possible, since ignition coils are a known wear item on this engine.

I'm focused on the vaporizer since the problem seems to be related to the time of day and traffic conditions... cold running will not cause ignition coil issues or vacuum problems, but it will lower water temp, which may affect vaporizer function.

*Mile2: your case might be idle vacuum related... try to do some throttle-body cleaning and check your idle vacuum... or maybe add some timing advance (if your car has a distributor cap) to bump your power at idle a bit for LPG.

[Mile2]

*Mile2: your case might be idle vacuum related... try to do some throttle-body cleaning and check your idle vacuum... or maybe add some timing advance (if your car has a distributor cap) to bump your power at idle a bit for LPG.

I already did throttle body cleaning at SpeedyFix and has tried all sort of spark plugs from copper to iridium and from colder to hotter plugs. On Gasoline mode its idling okay.

Will try to visit again GreenFuel then if the problem still persist I'll try SpeedLab.

[paolorenzo]

Ferman says any SGi kit can be tuned if the vendor is willing to lend him their laptop. If it's Greenfuel, no problem, Speedlab and Greenfuel are already partners.

Standard dyno-rates should apply. My car was a test-case to see if they could do it successfully. Speedlab charges about 4500-5000 pesos per hour for dyno-tuning. We can't say it'll have the same dramatic effect on all cars... but it's a good bet that your car will run about 5%-10% more powerful after tweaking, and any "flat-spots" caused by incompatibility between the kit and your car's stock ECU can be ironed out.

Of course, I don't know yet what the effect on fuel consumption is... usually, when we dyno-tune, adjusting fueling of the car on gasoline for maximum power makes it run leaner than stock (some stock cars run pig-rich), resulting in lower consumption. I don't know what Ferman had to do with the Lynx. I'm going to ask him later.

It's not necessary to have your kit dyno-tuned. But if you have hangups about poor power or want to ensure maximum reliability, this type of tuning can refine your SGI LPG map so that your car will run as smoothly as possible, with no dangerous lean spots or fuel-wasting rich spots.

Hi bigfootoz. PM'd you about the possibility of lending the EROOM ECU reader for a dyno-tuning session at Speedlab. ;)

[n5110]

Got mine converted at Greenfuel last thursday. emulator + toroidal tank. went there in the morning at natapos din kami ng mga 4pm. After mag initial filling ng 8 liters sa petron tune up naman. mabilis naman nakuha ang pag tune up. in terms of power tama naman at halos hinde ko mapansin ang pagkakaiba ng petrol and lpg, ang minor problem lang ngayon idling din, kasi nung fina fine tune nila yung kotse ko naka neutral lang + aircon. mukang dapat ata naka drive + aircon (EK matic) para ma compensate yung small power loss. overall i can say 90% satisfied with the conversion process at performance ng car on the initiall stage, kung maayos lang itong idling problem ko ayos na ayos na. ang ginagawa ko ngayon, off ang compressor pag nakatigil. will try to tweak the idling screw pag hinde pa rin umayos ang idling ko.

[XOOMaster]

What bothers me was sometimes when I'm idling at traffic sometimes the engine dies out on LPG but not on Gasoline. I would need to run hard to gain normal idling again?

Some LPG vaporizer on the net has pressure sensor and even the injector rails has pressure sensor.

Please let us know if an upsized vaporizer will solve this.

[SIZE=3][SIZE=2]Hi Mile2. Yes most SGI systems have MAP Sensor. [/SIZE][/SIZE] [SIZE=3]The presence of the pressure sensor in the injection system allows it to provide accurate carburetion for the LPG system. [/SIZE]

[samira]

[SIZE=2]Hi am a newbie here. I just want to ask for help regarding the lpg conversion of my crv. I have read this thread for some time now. Where would you guys recommend me to inquire regarding the conversion? greenfuel?[/SIZE] ekogas? autogas? preferrably qc and kc areas. what kind of kit is best for my ride? and how much more or less should i budget? Is maintenance gonna cause me sleepless nights?

[glennjv]

So my dad returned his Camry 96 2.2L yesterday (Aug 30) to have it fixed. (3rd time)
On Gas, it seems the car has lost its power.
On LPG, it completely dies out after 15 to 30min drive. Happened more than 4 times.

So my dad woke up early and went to GreenFuel before 8am. Surprisingly he was able to drive from alabang all the way to nueve pebrero. Just as about he was to turn onto the street of GreenFuel. The car CONKS out. haha How ironic its just a few meters away.

So my dad thought this is definitely a heat issue because on LPG the car dies after X minutes of use and depending on the time of the day. (if its cold or hot)

The technician first troubleshooted for the problem related to GAS losing power since it shouldn't have been affected significantly.
He rechecked the wiring of the injection system since they worked on it.
They found a loose wiring on the injection system. So problem was solved on that.

Now the LPG problem was a bit trickier since the car needs to be used for X amounts of minutes. So the technician and my dad drove around, nagPaJollibee pa, drive thru while keeping the car running. Then the car's RPM started to go up and down it was starting to show the problem.
So they went back to GreenFuel and the technician recommended to replace the LPG injection pump(can't remember what my dad said) and also reLocate them somewhere else.
The part where they placed the 4 injection pumps was getting too hot when the car was used for X minutes.
So they placed it somewhere else that's colder.

My dad was able to drive home with no problems. I think he was really satisfied. We'll now observe again the Camry if other problems pops out.
(hopefully not) I'll be driving it tomorrow because my car is on coding.

[straker]

for the APV we could easily convert using the Close loop system since we have already done a joint project with another conversion company for the Airport units.

for the SGI kits, we are now waiting for the SGI kits to arrive from Korea if everything goes well we should have the kits by the end of September.

I'll find time to drop by your shop. Got photos of the jobs you've done on the APV? Will donut tanks fit on it? Assuming both closed-loop & SGI are available, what will you recommend?

You have a branch in Highway54, can the same jobs be done there?

[straker]

[SIZE=2]Hi am a newbie here. I just want to ask for help regarding the lpg conversion of my crv. I have read this thread for some time now. Where would you guys recommend me to inquire regarding the conversion? greenfuel?[/SIZE] ekogas? autogas? preferrably qc and kc areas. what kind of kit is best for my ride? and how much more or less should i budget? Is maintenance gonna cause me sleepless nights?

Things to do...
1. read the thread, all 130 pages as of this posting. Some of the questions you asked maybe answered already.
2. Using GH's LPG installer's list, visit the shop, see their kits and see their techs in action. Helpful if you can bring along a mechanic (Maybe ask GH to join you, happy na siya sa Jollibee). Ask about cost, warranties and other after-sales issues.
3. Study and decide. Start saving up for the big plunge.
4. Also consider possible post-conversion jobs, like putting a box to conceal the tank, or spraying Rhino liners for donuts in the spare wheel well. Dropping by Speedlab could be a possibility, only as a last resort.

At present I'm at #2

[BlueVespa]

[SIZE=2]Hi am a newbie here. I just want to ask for help regarding the lpg conversion of my crv. I have read this thread for some time now. Where would you guys recommend me to inquire regarding the conversion? greenfuel?[/SIZE] ekogas? autogas? preferrably qc and kc areas. what kind of kit is best for my ride? and how much more or less should i budget? Is maintenance gonna cause me sleepless nights?

I had my 2001 CR-V (AT) converted at Greengas c/o Sharon (near Veterans) last month. I had to use a cylindrical tank since I did not want any body modifications to be done to fit a toroidal tank, so that was the only trade-off.

They installed an SGI system and I have been very happy with it. From Day 1 there have been no idling problems, no power problems, and it's running perfectly. I just find the tank too small for my needs

I've run about 1500kms in 3 weeks and am averaging 6.6 km/l city driving, although I very rarely go over 2.5K RPM / 80kph.

Hope this helps.

[marivictor]

I also had my x-trail converted at Greengas of Sharon Siy since about a month ago without any problem since day 1. Gas performance is similar to petrol, in fact, it is not noticeable whether the car is on gas or petrol. Power is strong even uphill and acceleration unaffected by the conversion whether standstill or from running start. Consumption slightly increased from 6 km per liter to about 5.5 km per liter. Sharon installed an aldessa/tomasetto kit. Thanks a lot to Greengas.

I also had a 1997 honda civic converted with denso last may. Initially, i had problems with the car's idling similar to those experienced by the other car owners who availed of denso's lpg kit, albeit to a lesser extent. The car does not stall, however, even when the idling speed momentarily drops to an rpm of about 500 before recovering. I increased the idling speed by a quarter turn on the lpg venturi mixer. Consumption increased from 7 km per liter to about 5.5 km per liter, which i feel is reasonable considering that the efficient fuel injection system of the civic was replaced with a carburetor type closed loop venturi mixer. The drop in the car's performance is noticeable specially under load and when going uphill. Overall, i am happy with the conversion and i think the installation of the oxygen sensor helps in improving gas consumption.

In both cars, i replaced the spark plugs with units that are one heat range colder and reduced the plug gaps by .2 mm to promote a stronger spark.