Which would you buy?

[AG4]

Nope still 175 for the QR Nissan did not retest because they didn't use the loophole. The Cyborg and Asti was also sold in other right hand drive countries like the UK, Australia, and Hong Kong (if am not mistaken).

From the Wall Street Journal regarding the new SAE test as it applies to Nissan:

Nissan has propelled its recent recovery in the U.S. market by offering models with more horsepower than its main rivals in several important market segments. But since Jan. 1, when testing to the new standard was required, Nissan has only come up with one new engine application to test under the new rules, says company spokesman Dean Case. That model, the Infiniti FX 45 luxury crossover sport utility, is rated at 320 horsepower for 2006, using the new SAE rules. The 2005 model was rated at 315 horsepower -- but Mr. Case says the 2006 would have had an even number if it had been evaluated under the old regime.

As you can see it even gained 5 horsepower for the FX45.

Sorry, I didn't know there was an update:
This was the initial '07 Altima info...

3.5-liter DOHC 24-valve V6 rated at an estimated 265-plus horsepower* and 255-plus lb-ft torque
2.5-liter DOHC 16-valve inline 4-cylinder rated at an
estimated 165-plus horsepower and 170-plus lb-ft torque

* All horsepower ratings are per SAE J1349 (AUG 2004)

-nissannews

Any chances for the '06 USDM Versa's 1.8L MR18DE to make more than 120hp SAE?
It makes 126hp elsewhere.

[Jun aka Pekto]

If life was just driving in a straight line then GM and Ford would still be number one and two in sales. Unfortunately for them people actually have to turn in corners. If all I had to do was drive stop light to stop light and not turn then I would get drag slicks and get the most powerful engine and shove it in my car. But, such is not life as we know it and you have to get a vehicle that handles everything equally well or as close to it as possible. Unless of course all the streets in Arizona are straight lines with no curves.

It depends on location then. Here, it's normally a stoplight grand prix. So straightline performance takes precedence. Those who makes a turn normally indicate they're either tucking tail between their legs or just quitting because they reached the point where they need to turn.

But, in mountainous locations like Denver, Reno, and the Lake Tahoe area, there's a big number of STi's and Evo's. The terrain there is alpine and ideal for AWD and turbos.

Yes, you do have to rev the Toyota but you are far from blowing the gasket on it because it has been detuned for the Corolla. You would have a greater chance of blowing the gasket on your supercharged Cobalt. The technology(VVT) in the Toyota engine has been around for 15 years when Honda first used it on the NSX and what does GM and Ford do they wait until 2005/2006 to use it. DC has to use MB designs to get things right with the 300 and messed up the Charger by making it 4 doors. There is a reason why the Koreans have over taken Ford and GM go ask the consumers.

I've driven the new Civic Si as well and that one's a joy to drive compared to the Corolla. The Civic had a pleasant feel that doesn't really feel like I'm abusing it. The power spread seems more balanced. The Corolla....... it really feels like I'm flogging it. The Corolla felt labored. Maybe it's just the difference in hp.

That Cobalt may quicker but it is already supercharged so what else could you do to it? Increase boost, add nitrous maybe. I take the Civic with 197hp stock add a turbo and nitrous and it's got more than the Cobalt in hp. Otherwise leave it stock and still beat the Cobalt in everything but the quarter mile.

It certainly can be improved. After all, my 1991 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo at stock condition was already turbocharged and made 190hp with 205lb-ft torque. Yet, I had it modded to HKS Stage 4 which brought it to an advertised 281hp (for $6k).

Jun aka Pekto, just a question if you think domestics make great products why do you own three imports? I consider the Contour an import because it's a Mondeo designed in Germany using a euro engine so Ford(US) couldn't mess it up as much.

If there was a 252hp (or even the older 240hp) G6 GTP at the time, I probably would've had it in the running. As it was, I tested the older G6 GT. The GTP version reached town a month after we bought our Sonata. Besides, my wife is the one who made the final choice for the Sonata. My personal choice was the M/T Mazda 6 V6 (too cramped in back). If it wasn't for the Sonata's quite decent acceleration, I probably would've fought my wife over the choice, even with the modified 10yr/100k miles warranty (bumper to bumper) and 4 years free oil changes.

We skipped the Altima 3.5SE because a Pinay friend had one that had engine problems, had to be towed from her garage to the dealer service shop, and it wasn't even a year old at the time.

We also looked at the V6 300C. Wife said it was too big and didn't even try to sit inside.

[noreturn]

First thing to remember is there's no fair bracket out in the street. There's no price fairness nor equality in engine displacement/hp. You come to the party running and gunning with what you have. It's up to you to decide if you think you can take out that Vette on the next lane with whatever you're driving. All that matters is who won and who ate his dust. The only ones who do the pondering afterwards are the losers.

Wow. Thank you for the Fast and the Furious monologue. I really need someone to dramatize street racing for me.

You're missing the point. Yes, you can compare any two cars you want on a street. Let's take a Kia Pride vs. a Lamborghini Murcielargo. You're not proving anything by pitting something that is obviously in a completely different class, hence the comparison between two like cars. Actually, the I4 Civic Si, should be at a disadvantage to the larger displacement V6 Stang. But it's not, due to good engineering.

Many V8 owners also mod their cars much like those with souped up Hondas and Mitsus.

You're getting way off track here. I never said the Mustang didn't have huge (factory untapped) potential. It does. But we're not talking about the aftermarket market's engineering prowess. We're talking about GM and Ford being able (unable rather) to get a good product out the factory doors ON THEIR OWN.

It's not just a souped up rice rocket versus a factory stock V8. There's also plenty of modded V8's here and rice rocket owners don't have a monopoly on NOS systems.

I didn't pit those two together. The Civic Si is factory built and is naturally aspirated. The Mustang is presumably built for sport as well. And, by the way NOS is brand. And nobody that likes their car uses spray.

By that I'm not saying a Corvette will automatically win. On the contrary, I've seen a beat-up (with right front bumper almost falling apart), late-80's, unassuming (sleeper) Dodge Colt embarrass a late model Corvette.

There's not too many V6 Mustangs here. Most are the V8's and most likely modded beyond the stock 300hp. Generally, if the driver looks like a "grandpa" or a teen (driving Daddy's Mustang), it's probably unmodded. If it's driven by what looks like young adults/college kids, 50-50 says it's modded. That beatup Dodge Colt seemed like an easy victim until I saw how the driver and his companion behaved. Shades on, hip hop music blaring, unmoving postures...... I read that correctly and backed off. Too bad for the Corvette driver though.

Lots more of you completely missing the point...

I still see a lot of 5.0 Mustangs and Z-28's from the late 80's here. They're in varying degrees of state with some pretty beat up while others have new paintjobs and looked almost showroom new. I see a lot more pony cars from that era still running fine than any BMW. Maybe in California where there are more import car owners to begin with.

Yeah, this is probably true.

Go to neighboring Nevada (esp up north) and it's V8 country. Take Fallon, I still see a lot of 70's V8 cars runningwith many restored to mint condition.

Restored doesn't count. Restored cars didn't last from when the factory made it until present. Restoring a car says nothing about the engineering of GM or Ford.

The only Japanese car from that era is my Uncle's Datsun F10.

In the world? First you say cars from Nevada, then you want to talk about Japanese cars in the scope of what you have personal contact with?

Same goes for cars in the 80's. I still see my old 86 Nissan Pulsar NX once in a while. But, there aren't many 80's Japanese cars around such as the Honda CRX which was hugely popular at that time. Most of them have been junked long ago while many people hang on to their V8's. I even see many Dodge minivans from the 80's still running. With pickups, GMC's from the late 70's, 80's and 90's are very popular.

That's great. But your personal observations mean next to nothing when you realize what the market value of a 10 year old American car is. There's a reason Jap and German cars depreciate slower. There's a reason that the market, not just you with your clearly biased opinion, is willing to pay higher prices for Japanese cars.

Value is relative. I still have all my cars from 1991 to the present (see my sig). The only exception is our old minivan. When I buy a car, I use it until it doesn't run anymore. I don't think about whether I'll trade it in or sell it.

And that's your choice. But your personal attachment to your vehicle says nothing about how much it's worth. Sure, I could drive a Skoda to work and school every day, it'll get me there. But do I want to deal with a crappy car breaking down on me? Do I want to deal with the increasing faults that come with aging cars? Not really. Trends show that American cars have more of these faults than Japanese cars. The market value reflects these trends.

I shouldn't have to explain simple economics to you.

I've driven only one car that seems to fit your statement above. I test drove the Corolla XRS last year when it was still advertised with 170hp from a 1.8L engine.

My impression of it from the start is where's the power? I had to literally abuse that car to eke some performance out of it. I even had the sales agent almost yelling at me to mash the gas pedal down. Maybe it's just me. But, pushing a car to within a few seconds of blowing a gasket is not my idea of performance. If you like that style of driving, knock yourself out.

I prefer 4-cylinder cars with some kind of assist from either a turbocharger or supercharger because gobs of usable torque and hp are right there (turbo lag aside).

The corolla XRS is a marketing ploy. It had crap torque, so it makes sense that you wouldn't feel the acceleration. Of course there's more to a car than torque, but i'll take your word for it that it was a bad experience. In my opinion, none of the "sport" Corollas really perform. A Corolla is still a budget car, comparable to the Ford Focus. Besides even American cars have their exception to the rule - Z06.

Between a Cobalt SS Supercharged and a Civic Si at a stoplight, my money's on the Cobalt.....

That's great. But the Civic puts out more horses without a blower, and is about 100 lbs leaner. I wouldn't bet on the race because chances are the Si would be driven by an idiot who looks forward to Fast and the Furious 3, and the Cobalt would be driven by a moron who bought a Cobalt.

[Jun aka Pekto]

That's the most pogi Mirage I've ever seen. Japan-market only?

[Jun aka Pekto]

You're missing the point.

I probably did and in a lot of the discussion here. Sorry if it turned out that way. In any case, I never watched any of those movies.

[wren]

The Saturn may not be in his price range and he is not a Honda fan. Mazdaspeed out of price range also. He really wants a WRX but wife won't let him have one because he already has too many toys, i.e. 67 VW Kharmann Ghia convertible and a 54 VW Bug, so he has to get a family car. I keep telling him to sell me one of the VW's but he won't sell it he says. Still trying to convince him to get an FJ instead so we can go to the off road park.

how about a Legacy GT? it has the looks of a sensible family car, but every bit of the performance the WRX has, maybe more. we won't tell his wife.

[redorange]

What else from a Scooby fan. Yeah, I told him about it also hopefully he tested cars today, I will see him at work later.

[redorange]

There is no cosmetic difference between that Mirage and the one's sold here other than the engine. If you get the LS version you even get fog lights.

[basti08]

OT: will RP market Xtrail 250X soon downgrade power to 165hp as well?

[redorange]

Nissan Canada has it listed as 165hp. Do they do testing in the Philippines for hp rating?

[Jun aka Pekto]

There is no cosmetic difference between that Mirage and the one's sold here other than the engine. If you get the LS version you even get fog lights.

Hmmm. Just wondering why it's not in Mitsu's US site. Is it totally new for the 2007 USDM or did Mitsu just pull it out?

[basti08]

that's a 97-2000 model Mirage Coupe. after the Mirage series that generation, Mitsu decided to use the Lancer nameplate and currently, Mitsu isnt building 2door Lancers.

[AG4]

that's a 97-2000 model Mirage Coupe. after the Mirage series that generation, Mitsu decided to use the Lancer nameplate and currently, Mitsu isnt building 2door Lancers.

The move to make Lancer a global name was also to bank on the fame of the Lancer Evo which was becoming popular in the US, especially for the younger crowd who are familiar with the "Lancer Evo" because of the Gran Turismo game.

[mazdamazda]

super off-topic na tayo. hehe.

[niky]

*noreturn: what is the point? Just wondering, because I'm lost.

RE: Cobalt vs. Si, the Cobalt would probably win. The Si has a much better motor than the Toyota 1.8, as it has more torque and a more linear delivery, but a blower motor always equals more torque than an NA motor of the same displacement.

While it isn't quite as impressive a feat of engineering as getting nigh on 200 hp from a 2 liter lump through natural aspiration, charging (of any type) has the advantage of being able to make power and still maintain emissions compliance. It also makes it easier and cheaper to modify the car for silly power. Hence the crazy amount of upgrades Dodge offered for the SRT4.

And while Ford and GM can't quite match Honda for impressive engineering, Ford actually has great handling cars, and the Cobalt is supposedly no slouch, either. Now all they have to do is learn how to make cars that are as appealing as the Japanese.

----

And Lord knows if the X-Trail will get downgraded. We still get the "140 hp" Corolla. That QR-series really is a disappointment compared to the legendary SR-series, not as zingy, not as upgradeable, and not nearly as bulletproof. The nice thing about them is that they're lightweight, torquey and they get the job done.

[redorange]

Just an update my buddy got his car already they ended up buying a hybrid Camry fully loaded(nav. leather, etc). He paid $35K out the door(taxes, etc included) and about 30K before all the fees. Funny thing is I go to the Toyota site and I can't option it out past $28K msrp with everything on it. So he paid 2K over MSRP which is usually about $2-4K over invoice. So he got screwed out of $4-6K more than he needed to pay. He didn't want to wait so they found one in his color with just paid whatever the dealer wanted. All just to get a car that can't carry anything in the trunk because all the batteries take the space and he can't put anything that may cause water or liquid to spill because it could damage the electrical parts. The wife wanted it for the new tech on the car so now he can't repair anything himself. LOL

[mazdamazda]

$35K for a Camry? geez... he got ripped off big time! He could have gotten the following with options for less than 35K:

Volvo S60 T5
BMW 325i
Mazdaspeed6
Chrsyler 300C Hemi

[redorange]

Yeah but those aren't hybrid models, hybrids generally cost more becasue of the new tech in the car.

[wren]

they're paying for the hybrid technology (especially with the astronomical gas prices). i remember test driving a $40K honda accord hybrid.

[mazdamazda]

Yeah but those aren't hybrid models, hybrids generally cost more becasue of the new tech in the car.

AFAIK... base price of some hybrid cars:

Camry $26K
Accord $30K
Escape $27K

nowhere near the $35K sticker price for that Camry.