variable valve engine comparo

[alwayz_yummy]

mitsu's MIVEC:4G92,4G64,6A10,11,12,etc.

vs.

honda's VTEC:B16a, B18c, etc.

vs.

toyota's VVTi: 4AGE 20V black, etc

vs.

nissan's NEO-VVL/VTC engines:QR-engines, etc, including SR16VE

Displacement, cc: 1596
Max.power (Net), kw(PS)/rpm: 175 ps (128.71 kw) / 7800 rpm
Max.torque(Net), N*m(kg*m)/rpm: 16.5 kg*m (161.81 N*m) / 7200 rpm
Power density: 6.4
Engine type: Water cooling serial 4 cylinder DOHC16 valve
Engine information: NEOVVL
Fuel system: NISSAN EGI (ECCS) (electronic gasoline injection)
Compression ratio: 11
Bore, mm: 86
Stroke, mm: 68.7

vs.

mazda/ford's VVL/VVT: found sa mazda 3, 6, focus....


in general, which carmaker gives the best variable valve lift and timing engine...w/ or w/o VICS

im particular sa 1.6-1.8L variable valve engines (is d15b a VTEC?) B16a, b18c, 6a10/11, 4g92, SR16VE, basta 1.6L-1.8L with variable valves.

[niky]

AFAIK, VICS was only on Mazda/Ford's FS engines... and is merely a dual runner system. Most VVT/VVL/VTEC engines don't need a dual runner to boost torque because the variable intake cams take care of that.

I personally love the SR20VE, as it has the stout bottom end of a turbo block, high-revving power, and a decent amount of torque compared to most variable valve engines. The SR16VE was supposedly nice, but it's so rare (there's supposedly one in the Philippines, but God knows if anyone bought it off of Nissan or if it's languishing in the parts department) that it really doesn't count.

But of course, Toyota's 20V and Honda's B18 are more common and easier to service than the SR20VE.

[alwayz_yummy]

grabe bang pagka-rare ng sr16ve?baka walang masyadong may alam dito nyan..4age 20v at b16a/18c ang bukang bibig dito lalo na ng mga ricers e....

MIVEC, bibihira ko makarining pinaguusapan,e...

nissan?eto palang ata pinagusapan sila..especially the sr16ve. and the only info i could gather sa sr16ve is sa russian site..catalog lang.

sr20ve from saan naman? ung sa xtrail gt sr20vet!280 hp....

hope tuner guyz makahelp....info gathering ko e...

[niky]

The SR16VE equipped Nissan Pulsar VZ-R (1996 Sentra hatchback) was reviewed in Best Motoring in comparison to the Civic Type R. There's also a short article available at asia.vtec.net, here: http://asia.vtec.net/side/ek9vzr/index.html

Nissan Philippines had one for sale a few years ago... they brought it in for racing, but never used it... sayang.

The SR20VE is more common. They use it in the Primera and in various kit-cars... the ASL Garaiya, I think, uses it, while the Tommy Kaira ZZ-S uses a carburated racing version of the SR20DE (I think, not sure).

Pero if you're looking at a project car in the Philippines, good luck finding a mechanic who can do the SR20VE swap. Most local project cars either use the SR20DE or SR20DET (which is actually much easier to get, despite being kinda rare itself.)

The SR20VET is very rare, and I think it might have only been used in the X-Trail and the last Silvia.

The 1.6 MIVEC-swap isn't common, but there are quite a few of them out there. It's a pretty gutsy engine, but an old review (can't find it anymore) put the Mirage Cyborg (Lancer GSR body, but hatchback instead of coupe) third behind the Nissan VZ-R and Honda CTR.

[alwayz_yummy]

yup sa pulsar hatch vz-r and wagon aero nga nakuha kong details. sure no ricers know this engine... sr20ve is rare din,diba, pero alin mas rare:

MIVECs, sr20VE/det, VET sa xtrail GT lang....(hehe japan import converted xtrail GT in the next 5 years!)

one of the variable valve timiming w/ turbo!

[ferdine]

in general, which carmaker gives the best variable valve lift and timing engine...w/ or w/o VICS

You said "in general" so I would say, just IMHO, the future is i-VTEC. It is in constant development because of widespread tinkering by independent tuners. Parang de-facto sa mga variable valve timing. Honda will be driven more to advance the technology because of wider following among enthusiasts. They were the first to introduce it commercially in mass market so they have the advantage.
I've seen a video lately with a K20 smoking an EVO. Medyo controversial but I liked what I saw. Afterall, Honda still rules in F1. Not Toyota, Mitsu, or Toyota.

[mazdamazda]

You said "in general" so I would say, just IMHO, the future is i-VTEC. It is in constant development because of widespread tinkering by independent tuners. Parang de-facto sa mga variable valve timing. Honda will be driven more to advance the technology because of wider following among enthusiasts. They were the first to introduce it commercially in mass market so they have the advantage.
I've seen a video lately with a K20 smoking an EVO. Medyo controversial but I liked what I saw. Afterall, Honda still rules in F1. Not Toyota, Mitsu, or Toyota.

1. Honda's R&D has got nothing to do with "tinkering by independent tuners".

2. Nissan was the first to produce a VVT powered vehicle.

3. K20? Evo? From Top Gear's power laps:
1:36.5 – Honda Civic Type-R
1:31.6 – Honda NSX Type-R
1:26.0 – Mitsubishi Evo VIII MR FQ-320
1:24.8 – Mitsubishi Evo VIII MR FQ-400

4. F1? Errr... those F1 cars don't employ variable valve timing. How about WRC? Those rally cars do employ variable valve timing. :lol:

===

If you want the most advance... those would be the toyota's VVTL-i, Honda's I-VTEC & Porsche's VarioCam Plus. Pity that Toyota discontinued the VVTL-i already since it cannot meet new Euro emmission regulations.

The above three are capable of cam-changing & cam-phasing.

Among the three, Porsche has the most sophisticated system then followed by Toyota.

Honda should have been as sophisticated as Toyota's had they opted to also apply their system to both the intake & exhaust valves.

===

Though being the most advanced doesn't necessarily mean the most powerful. BMW's Double VANOS application in their new inline-6 engines are the most powerful considering their displacement. Their 'normal' 3.0L engines makes around 255hp while most of the competition uses a 3.5L engine trying to hit that mark. After that, consider also their ///M engines! 330hp from a 3.2L inline-6! 500hp from a 5.0L V10! Almost nothing comes close pound-for-pound for naturally aspirated engines.

[orly_andico]

m2 beat me to it. :P
intake VANOS is the greatest thing since the throttle body (daw).

[alwayz_yummy]

VANOS: s bmw to, diba?

[rion]

Afterall, Honda still rules in F1. Not Toyota, Mitsu, or Toyota.

yup in F1... Honda deserves it. though that win is mixed with a little Luck... different brands parin in Japan ang leading sa Ibang sports like WRC or Drift.

anyways, since we are talking about Engine Comparo...

ang sarap ng tunog ng bagong Ford Focus... parang naka turbo siya palagi kahit Idle... ofcourse walang turbo ang Factory Ford Focus diba?

anyways, why does it sound like that? is and does Mazda mazda 3, 6 VVL/VVT sounds like that too?

[mazdamazda]

In other countries they do have a factory turbo Focus... the Focus ST! They borrowed the S40 T5's turbocharged 2.5L engine and shoved it to a 3-door Focus. It is good for around 220hp.

IMO - the Focus, MZ3, MZ6 doesn't sound turbocharged to me though. Engine is quite noisy though compared to others.

[niky]

It's the "sporty sound"... hehe. The Lynx's engine is pretty growly, too, even on the 1.6.

[squala]

You said "in general" so I would say, just IMHO, the future is i-VTEC. It is in constant development because of widespread tinkering by independent tuners. Parang de-facto sa mga variable valve timing. Honda will be driven more to advance the technology because of wider following among enthusiasts. They were the first to introduce it commercially in mass market so they have the advantage.

I've seen a video lately with a K20 smoking an EVO. Medyo controversial but I liked what I saw. Afterall, Honda still rules in F1. Not Toyota, Midland, or Aguri.

i-VTEC is the future? Then how do they explain the dismal gas mileage of 2.0 Accords and CR-Vs?

About the K20 vs. Evo, I suspect the Evo guy didn't properly launch the car. There's an ideal way to do that, which requires some getting used to. Your usual plug-and-play Hondas are very easy to get off the line.

Finally, Honda may have won the Hungarian GP, but 99% of it is simply out of luck. Schumacher, Alonso and Raikkonen had DNFs, otherwise one of them would easily taken victory over Button. If you may argue that Honda leads all the other Japanese makers in F1, that's because they simply have to pick up BAR left off when they were bought out. Honda only had to work with engines during their partnership; BAR took care of the chassis. And I believe Toyota have the better engine, more durable and faster top speed. It's just that they can't come up with a chassis that's good enough to win races yet.

[rion]

hehe.. mas maingay nga siya, but I like that Jet alike noise... yung whistle sound... I prefer that noise than a Modified Exhaust noise...

I really Love F1, but can't relate F1 to actual cars kasi it's a Semi-Automatic like a Playstation Gran Turismo 4 M/T mode botton, plus the steering is rectangle. :lol:

mas nakaka relate pa yung World Rally.

ofcourse, a lot of respect to Honda. and recently more respect to Nissan. when I watched the Tokyo drift, Initial D and Drift Bible By DriftKing (Keichi Tsuchiya) I used to hate nissan's exhaust sound kasi eh...

and we can't base 100% on the engine in races, it's not always the ride, it's the rider. hehe... :lol:

[niky]

RE: Honda and F1. F1's relation to actual road engines is very very tenuous. There's as much F1 in any Honda as there is an a Toyota Hiace.

That said, Jenson finished pretty well in Turkey, too. Honda's F1 package is very good, and after their stumble last year, they can only go up. Toyota? They had a pretty good package last year, helped by the tire change rule, but this year, they're middle of the field.

[squala]

Here's another thread about variable timing wars.

http://asia.vtec.net/side/cyborg/index.html

If you notice, the Corolla Levin is a coupe compared to the other two which are hatchbacks. So it had a slight ballast. It would have matched or bettered the Civic if it were likewise a hatch (not sure if the Corolla Seca had a 20-valve option).

[ferdine]

i-VTEC is the future? Then how do they explain the dismal gas mileage of 2.0 Accords and CR-Vs?

About the K20 vs. Evo, I suspect the Evo guy didn't properly launch the car. There's an ideal way to do that, which requires some getting used to. Your usual plug-and-play Hondas are very easy to get off the line.

Finally, Honda may have won the Hungarian GP, but 99% of it is simply out of luck. Schumacher, Alonso and Raikkonen had DNFs, otherwise one of them would easily taken victory over Button. If you may argue that Honda leads all the other Japanese makers in F1, that's because they simply have to pick up BAR left off when they were bought out. Honda only had to work with engines during their partnership; BAR took care of the chassis. And I believe Toyota have the better engine, more durable and faster top speed. It's just that they can't come up with a chassis that's good enough to win races yet.

He-he-he-he-he-,...:clap: :clap: i-vtec pa rin!!!

[mazdamazda]

He-he-he-he-he-,...:clap: :clap: i-vtec pa rin!!!

care to explain why?

or how i-vtec works?

[orly_andico]

what i've heard (but i'm no expert) is that i-VTEC is actually inferior to the older VTEC in terms of performance, it'sreally more geared for economy.

although i don't see why people get all worked up about VTEC in general. VTEC is primitive technology! having only a few discrete cam profiles. Porsche Variocam and BMW VANOS are both far more sophisticated.

or maybe Honda fanboys are just.. Honda fanboys.

[mazdamazda]

what i've heard (but i'm no expert) is that i-VTEC is actually inferior to the older VTEC in terms of performance, it'sreally more geared for economy.

although i don't see why people get all worked up about VTEC in general. VTEC is primitive technology! having only a few discrete cam profiles. Porsche Variocam and BMW VANOS are both far more sophisticated.

or maybe Honda fanboys are just.. Honda fanboys.

Orly... i-VTEC is the next evolution of the VTEC3 & SOHC VTEC.

while the old VTEC only has cam-changing, the "i" adds variable cam-phasing to the intake valves.

with this it actually improves the powerband of the engine (notably torque output), giving the engine much better response even at low-rpm situations.

and yes... VTEC has just two cam profile. nothing spectactular. once the rpm hits 5000rpm (and assuming that there is enough oil pressure & a warm engine) it'll change to the more aggressive cam.

as for the comparison with the DOHC VTEC... well... the DOHC VTEC does have a higher hp output but at the expense of a gutless torque output plus it won't pass current & future emmission standards. I suspect that they toned down the previously very aggresive cam profile of the DOHC VTEC for use in the new R-series (with i-VTEC) engine.