variable valve engine comparo

[ferdine]

nissan, masyadong bago pa, and expensive...and not much na resale ng maxima kasi,e..konti lang maidadag-dag..

Squala's input earlier on SR16VE is a good alternative.

[orly_andico]

if ferdine is going to put down 350k on a K20a engine, then obviously he is emotionally invested in the belief that "VTEC is da best!"

therefore any further discussion is useless.

*alwayz_yummy, regarding engine choices.. it depends on your application. i think the cheapest high horsepower you can get is always gonna be a 4AGE. ang alam ko sub-50k ang makina nun. the 20V with VVTi can do 160+hp already (or is it 175hp) pero very rare. mas common yung walang VVTi.

although the mazda B6T can also be had (quite a few people on protegetech did the transplant). i forget the exact cost, but it's nowhere near 350k! (or even 100k) well it's "only" 180hp so i guess hindi masisiyahan si ferdine dun kasi 180hp "only" tapos turbo na yun..

[alwayz_yummy]

pero hirap at uber rare daw....kung civic shuttle/civic ferio(sedan) makukuha ko, b-series ako. kung rolla, wagon particular, / echo verso(funcargo), 4age swap..

nissan, well, exalta/gts is fine by me...

if protonwira hatch/librero(lancer wagon)/spacewagon, mivec swap.

so by choices, civic and toyota will be the oldest model, newer pag mitsu based/mitsu and lalo na pag nissan.

i ask kung aling vvt engine is the best kasi may relationship sa paghahanap ko ng replacement sa maxima,e...1.6-1.8L lang limit ko kasi,e...

[rion]

I have that video but there was another one. It was a rare video of Tsuchiya (I got from friend) giving tutorials about drifting. I

I see... the only video I saw Tsuchiya on solo is his Drift Bible. though he only use MR2 GT-S...

if you look at the spec, RB26 block pa rin yan, they just overbore it. i think the Nismo R34 Z-Tune's 2.8L is still RB26. same with other tuners din who have a bigger than 2.6L displacement. matibay kasi yung RB26 eh.

ah ok that figures... ang lakas ng HP nun 1000+

[ferdine]

if ferdine is going to put down 350k on a K20a engine, then obviously he is emotionally invested in the belief that "VTEC is da best!"

Maybe, but i am more inclined to think of what will happen to my emotional investment several years after. What are the options I could do to my motor to improve it. How flexible it is to mod? I mean things like that. Hindi naman sa dahil mag invest ako ng ganong halaga just to prove that Honda is da best.
Everybody has his own way of how to pamper oneself.

[alwayz_yummy]

si autoplus ata may cr-v na swapped na integra type-r engine....un ang alam ko....

[ferdine]

I see... the only video I saw Tsuchiya on solo is his Drift Bible. though he only use MR2 GT-S...

I cannot fully remember if that was the one. Hahanapin ko pa CD's ko.

[squala]

if ferdine is going to put down 350k on a K20a engine, then obviously he is emotionally invested in the belief that "VTEC is da best!"

therefore any further discussion is useless.

*alwayz_yummy, regarding engine choices.. it depends on your application. i think the cheapest high horsepower you can get is always gonna be a 4AGE. ang alam ko sub-50k ang makina nun. the 20V with VVTi can do 160+hp already (or is it 175hp) pero very rare. mas common yung walang VVTi.

although the mazda B6T can also be had (quite a few people on protegetech did the transplant). i forget the exact cost, but it's nowhere near 350k! (or even 100k) well it's "only" 180hp so i guess hindi masisiyahan si ferdine dun kasi 180hp "only" tapos turbo na yun..

The 20-valve 4A-GE engines have VVT, and to make things clear, it's different from VVTi. I'm not yet certain about the explanation behind this, but they're not the same. Silvertops can be had at around 25-40K depending on condition and shop. Blacktops go for about 50-65K for the 5-speed version and even over 100K for the 6-speed with LSD.

[alwayz_yummy]

so, 100K kung 6 speed w/lsd...nakadining na nga ko ng 6 w/ lsd way before...from sa anung sasakyan? mr2? sprinter/trueno?

[niky]

*ferdine: Your comment re: authoritative and accurate as regards to mazdamazda, uncalled for.

Wikipedia is only as accurate as the source material, which often comes online from non-experts. I've found a lot of Wikipedia articles wanting in terms of technical scope and/or accuracy, and Wikipedia is actually making it harder to research online, because a lot of sites are starting to cut and paste Wikipedia articles as a whole, instead of generating their own content.

I'm increasingly having to dig up very old articles and/or hunt through forums to find accurate data.

So, to repeat mazdamazda's question, and I'm still waiting for that answer myself, what has he said that isn't accurate? Impugning on the character of a moderator isn't a good way to win friends online.

------

Back to the Topic:

RE: K20A mounting kit... *ferdine: good luck with that, then. While it's not as cost-effective right now as an old engine, I can see a time when the swap will be almost as popular as a B16 swap.

RE: Mazda B6T... yup, it's rare, but there are quite a few sellers on http://www.protegetech.org/forums , like kiadohc, who can help you. By the way, kiadohc's B6T or B6 Kia Pride swap is one of the most cost-effective speed mods ever. Of course, it's not variable valve... but then, you could always do the Toyota 20V engine conversion on the Pride... just don't ask me how it's done.

RE: 4AGE. Which is the 170hp version? The silvertop or the blacktop? I know the regular 20V engines are quite cheap, but if you want a B16 beater, you probably have to spend the same amount of money. Except for the car itself... Corollas are so much cheaper that you will probably save on that end.

And again, forget the SR16VE... too much trouble for too little torque... SR20VE nalang...

[squala]

so, 100K kung 6 speed w/lsd...nakadining na nga ko ng 6 w/ lsd way before...from sa anung sasakyan? mr2? sprinter/trueno?

That's the price in DMF Katipunan. I think you pay additional 20K if you want them to install it for you. They're not cheap but they offer the best workmanship possible. The 6-speed I'm talking about came from the Corolla Levin BZ-R. It has OEM helical LSD also.

Other Toyotas I know of that had 6-speed were the Supra Turbo JZA80, 7th-gen Celica GT-S, USDM Corolla XRS, Matrix, newer versions of the MR2 Spyder, and for some strange reason, a certain Starlet model that had a 4E-FE or 4E-FTE engine I'm not sure.

[redorange]

nabanggit din as ot yung cvt...

tagal na subaru nagtry with a cvt, sa 1980 justy ata yung may cvt. heheh.

OT: Subaru was the first to use it in the US in 1989, but DAF(Netherlands) was the first to use it in a car in 1958. The first patent was in 1886, Dodge got the US patent in 1935 and the concept was by Da Vinci in 1490. Before the Honda fanboys say it's their idea.

[redorange]

Never heard about fairlady. Hindi pa ako isinilang non.

You should really learn about the classic cars if you don't know what a Fairlady is since cars existed before the almighty "H".

[ferdine]

OT: Subaru was the first to use it in the US in 1989, but DAF(Netherlands) was the first to use it in a car in 1958. The first patent was in 1886, Dodge got the US patent in 1935 and the concept was by Da Vinci in 1490. Before the Honda fanboys say it's their idea.

Before the Honda Vinci fanboys say it's their idea. :Off-Topic2:

[orly_andico]

*niky,

the late 20V 4AGE in some (non-local) AE111 is rated at 165hp * 7800rpm. but according to this other web site i looked at, dyno shows only 145hp. but then again diba the SiR B16A is also overrated..

OTOH i think 4AGE is the cheapest way to get >120whp at a low cost. i mean for the price of a B16 you can get a 4AGE plus intake mods.

[slicker_boi]

I think we should just cut the bigotry and deal with reality. Pre-i-VTEC Hondas are torqueless, gruntless, gutless. Period. Not even their faithful minions can save them. Yes, Hondas are nice cars but they're not the best. Many say the B16 is the ultimate 1.6, but take it to Autocross or slalom and it will suck. The punch is simply not there, especially below 5thou RPM. 4A-GEs may not have the best top end, but they're better rounded and perform more nicely in races other than drag.

[alwayz_yummy]

talagang locally, 2 stands out, 4AGE and B16/18a...sabagay, owner naming binebenta na ngayon is 3au na malaking displacement, and that owner flies! so it follows na next gen ang 4A-

wala ko masyado ding nadidinig sa MIVEC users.....since meron din naman to, di ba?

[orly_andico]

*yummy,

this is just third-hand information, but i was told a modded (ported and polished, intake/exhaust mods) Lancer GSR (which has a 4G92 i believe) still gets the pants beat off it by.. a stock SiR. so it would seem that unless you go the 4G63T route, medyo talo pa rin ang mitsu.

[alwayz_yummy]

so kung nissan and mitsu, sr20det and 4g63t if i wanna shock those big rice spenders....how about sa mazda, BPT? or the v6?

is there a nissan VQ20 with vvt? (kung with w/o vvt but TT meron kaya, kahit aftermarket?-->OT na ko sa sarili kong topic)

so narrowing it to the 2 most common, which is best head on? 4age20v vs b-series..assuming the 4age is installed in an echo and b-series on a eg hatch...
(no locally avail. wagon. and both cars naman stock, except for that engine swap.)

[orly_andico]

i think 4AGE vs B16A it would eventually boil down to the driver.

a lot of engines can match the B16A in the first 3 gears, even though on paper they have much less HP, due to the "gutless" and "torqueless" nature of the B16A. so in any non-straight line, the B16A would be at a disadvantage. pero kung puro drag lang, i don't think any other 1.6L NA engine can match the B16A, assuming equal driver skill.

on the other hand, a late 20V 4AGE has about the same HP (or a bit less) as a B16A, and a fatter torque curve. plus i think it would be cheaper. so..