Kia Carens vs Toyota Innova

[[archie]]

Sir Archie, what if avanza is sold here as Daihatsu Xenia or an innova rebadge to Daihatsu,then promote them as engineered by Toyota, will it be popular to Filipinos? What do you think?

Will they be as forgiving to a faulty D4D innova engine when it is a Daihatsu as to a Toyota?

hmm.. if your going to ask me and ill be one of the toyota top management, then the first thing i would think is why would i do that? you will risk the name loyalty. there is no way that toyota would allow it...

to answer your question, as far as im concerned, yes as long as the latest engineering of toyota and all parts are manufactured/outsourced by toyota and the only thing changed would be the badge... and backed up by toyota, i would not have any problems with it (though impossible).

of course the faulty D4D will be more forgiven given that its toyota. the name of toyota is established and considering the fact they are a monster company, they will do everything to fix the problem to achieve the customer loyalty again.

[magnusthegreat]

hmm.. if your going to ask me and ill be one of the toyota top management, then the first thing i would think is why would i do that? you will risk the name loyalty. there is no way that toyota would allow it...

to answer your question, as far as im concerned, yes as long as the latest engineering of toyota and all parts are manufactured/outsourced by toyota and the only thing changed would be the badge... and backed up by toyota, i would not have any problems with it (though impossible).

of course the faulty D4D will be more forgiven given that its toyota. the name of toyota is established and considering the fact they are a monster company, they will do everything to fix the problem to achieve the customer loyalty again.

It's unfair to other companies. I'm sure if that D4D problem came from other companies...bagsak negosyo ng distibutor. Buti nalang maganda na ngayon ang performance ng korean companies like Kia and hyundia.

[[archie]]

It's unfair to other companies. I'm sure if that D4D problem came from other companies...bagsak negosyo ng distibutor. Buti nalang maganda na ngayon ang performance ng korean companies like Kia and hyundia.

of course its unfair

kia ang hyundai's success would not be there if their suppliers did not support their programs like the "cr30", "2by2", etc... they were lucky that samyeong cable company and others followed the goals of kia and hyundai.

amazing companies...

[tidus1203]

Kaya sometimes marketing is more important than production itself. A good marketing plan will sell well as long as the production problems are controlled or minimize. Credit to Toyota as they really sealed themselves as the leader in vehicle quality worldwide for decades. Naging problema kasi ng Korean is in the beginning lemon talaga sila like the Kia Pride, so it will take awhile for people to remove that stain that continues to linger. Add other Korean woes like the Daewoo Racer and people tend to generalized all Korean cars as low quality. How about Nissan and Mitsubishi (at least in the Philippines for Nissan and for Mitsubishi worldwide after their Pajero scandal) they also had past stains na hindi matangal and now they are suffering in sales at the hands of the two giant Japanese makers Toyota and Honda who have guarded their reputation well....

[Zace]

just want to share some knowledge about the kia karens. the kia karens is an mpv marketed here and in the US (Kia Roanda yata name nya sa US). yes its a versatile vehicle but underrated due to its korean badge. however, the previous generation kia carens which did not reach the Philippine shores was rebadged as the toyota picnic in HK and Singapore. The karens is a car-based unibody mpv driven by the front wheels resulting to a larger interior room and softer ride due to the availability of fully independent suspension. The innova belonging to Toyota's IMV project has a rigid body on a ladder frame and is driven by the rear wheels resulting to a higher ground clearance and a stiffer ride since the rigid axle on the rear makes it impossible to have a fully independent suspension. If you are a city dweller and has good smooth roads in your area you might want to choose the more urban and stylish kia carens but if you are looking for a reliable workhorse and family wagon and lives in a community with several rough roads and potholes the innova is for you.As they say, you can't go wrong with a toyota!!! kia and hyundai are sister companies- tucson and sportage share the same platform and engines same with the rio and the accent meaning hyundai's tried and tested CRDi is the same engine fitted to the kias. yup, toyota owns daihatsu, thus in other countries, some daihatsu models are rebadged as toyota to boost vehicle sales. GM owns chevrolet, suzuki, and daewoo. the optra, captiva, spark and aveo are all daewoos rebadged as chevrolet to attract the buyers in love with the US of A. hope this can help. thank you!!!

[Zace]

just want to share some knowledge about the kia karens. the kia karens is an mpv marketed here and in the US (Kia Roanda yata name nya sa US). yes its a versatile vehicle but underrated due to its korean badge. however, the previous generation kia carens which did not reach the Philippine shores was rebadged as the toyota picnic in HK and Singapore. The karens is a car-based unibody mpv driven by the front wheels resulting to a larger interior room and softer ride due to the availability of fully independent suspension. The innova belonging to Toyota's IMV project has a rigid body on a ladder frame and is driven by the rear wheels resulting to a higher ground clearance and a stiffer ride since the rigid axle on the rear makes it impossible to have a fully independent suspension. If you are a city dweller and has good smooth roads in your area you might want to choose the more urban and stylish kia carens but if you are looking for a reliable workhorse and family wagon and lives in a community with several rough roads and potholes the innova is for you.As they say, you can't go wrong with a toyota!!! kia and hyundai are sister companies- tucson and sportage share the same platform and engines same with the rio and the accent meaning hyundai's tried and tested CRDi is the same engine fitted to the kias. yup, toyota owns daihatsu, thus in other countries, some daihatsu models are rebadged as toyota to boost vehicle sales. GM owns chevrolet, suzuki, and daewoo. the optra, captiva, spark and aveo are all daewoos rebadged as chevrolet to attract the buyers in love with the US of A. hope this can help. thank you!!!

kia carens is known as the kia rondo in the US and competes directly with the tall wagon version of the corolla- the toyota matrix and pontiac vibe!!!

[niky]

Regarding the reliability issue.

There are misconceptions on both sides.

The Innova may have an advantage over rough roads, inherent in its stiffer suspension and ladder frame design. There was a recall, though, related to the rear live axle... so it's not entirely indestructible. But, in general, ladder frame trucks are more robust than cars, and the Innova is truck based, while the Carens is car-based. The Carens, furthermore, has a softer suspension. But it should be no more "masirain" than a Toyota Corolla, which means that you may have to replace shocks after a few years.

Ladder frame vehicles aren't immune to shock degradation, though. But shock degradation is directly dependent on how strong the shocks are, not how stiff the springs are. I'd say the Innova shocks are a bit stiffer, so should outlast the Carens shocks... but the Innova's suspension in general is more sophisticated than that of older AUVs, so will be more prone to wear than those old clunkers... though since it's a truck suspension, it should stand up to a fair bit of abuse... but it's not much different from the Carens... it's a coil and spring design, not a torsion bar and leaf system like on heavy duty older AUVs.

If you're worried about ball joints and the like, you're looking at the wrong vehicles. Go ahead and get a live-axle leaf-spring truck. You have to make compromises for ride comfort. But in my experience, if you're going over a road rough enough to destroy your suspension, you really should slow down, whatever you're driving.

As for the engine issue, the D4D thing may be worrying, but the problem with local fuel is shared by most CRDi engines. If you're getting a D4D or CRDi, tough freaking luck having the engine serviced at your backyard talyer... hell, even for new Corollas, you have to buy certain parts at Banaue just like everyone else. Toyota parts availability works only for older Toyotas. For more sophisticated newer ones, it'll take some time for parts to get to the smaller establishments, but already it's becoming impractical for small talyers to keep a big stock of certain parts, so they don't bother.

As for the Avanza... I don't find it any more robust than the Carens, probably less so. The Innova, I'd say is pretty good, but if you're really looking for truck-like durability and serviceability, you might want to just stick with a torsion-bar and leaf-spring, ladder frame, non-CRDi Crosswind...

But really... it's up to the buyer what he wants. In the spectrum of utility versus comfort, the Carens is at the comfort end, the Crosswind at the utility end and the innova in-between. In modernity versus robustness, it's the same, Carens - Innova - Crosswind. Well, the Crosswind's electricals and hinges aren't that great, but it'll survive way past 200,000 kms, at which point, any CRDi will be needing new injectors.

None of these cars are terrible cars if you're buying them for the right reason. But you have to know what they're good at and why.

[mazingerZ]

This thread has become a Carens Fanboi vs. Innova fanboi thread . . . hehehehe. I don't own either vehicle pero I'll pick the Carens, I have test driven both and I like the handling and performance of the CRDi Carens.

[magnusthegreat]

This thread has become a Carens Fanboi vs. Innova fanboi thread . . . hehehehe. I don't own either vehicle pero I'll pick the Carens, I have test driven both and I like the handling and performance of the CRDi Carens.

For utility and ruggedness, I will buy a jeepney. But when it comes to comfort among the 3, I go for carens. My kids sleeping soundly at the 2nd & sometimes 3rd row seats....priceless.

[magnusthegreat]

My 2nd child always get car sick during long travels, we even had to confine him to hospital for dehydration. Thank God, he only vomit once with my 6 month old carens unlike the other vehicle we used. Thank God for Carens.