Battle of the Transmissions: M/T vs. A/T

[iiinaslao]

with technology so advance nowadays, we have manumatics all around us. if i have the money i'd always get the matics.

that's why for our home sedan we got the honda city 1.3 cvt automatic. drives like a charm and does not consume a lot of gas. if only we have the budget would have chosen the matic also for the 4x4 isuzu dmax. but the manual tranny will do for now.

[Blackraven]

I get to hear excuses that AT consumes more gas than a MT. But with the technology today the figures are hardly apart. I have driven a 92 Corolla GLI AT and a 96 Civic VTI AT and I manage to get 9-11 km/litre. The worse that I got is 7-8 km/litre.

The Honda GD FIT/JAZZ is the best example of this. The car seems to be more biased to A/T than M/T. Kaya from user feedback, the 7-speed CVT and even the 5-speed A/T (US-spec models) have better FC than its 5-speed manual counterpart.

[Blackraven]

I'd consider a CVT or a DSG, maybe, but since there are no CVTs on compacts at the moment (Honda Civic 2.0 CVT, anyone? Or Focus Sport Diesel 2.0 CVT? :evil: ), and DSG equipped ars are just too expensive for me, I'll stick with the stick.

As for now, wala pa ngang compacts that are sold dito sa Pinas that have a CVT. Yet sa ibang bansa, they've started to appear in quite a number of models. Lalo na sa Japan kung saan they are seen in huge numbers.

It sucks though that Japan gets the good stuff tapos tayo naman ang napapaiwan in newer vehicle technologies

[orly_andico]

Doesn't the outgoing Lancer MX come with a CVT? and isn't the Lancer a compact car?

[niky]

Yeah, it's the only one with CVT... maybe I should have said modern compacts... hehehe...

The new Sentra also has CVT... of course, it's hard to tell when Yulon will bring it in... (maybe 2015?... by then we'll be the only country in the world still selling the N15 Sentra).

I get to hear excuses that AT consumes more gas than a MT. But with the technology today the figures are hardly apart. I have driven a 92 Corolla GLI AT and a 96 Civic VTI AT and I manage to get 9-11 km/litre. The worse that I got is 7-8 km/litre.

Although Mt has a quicker response and you can drive the car at your liking. Id still choose the AT for practicality. With the heavy traffic here I dont need a responsive tranny.

But you can still get much much more out of a manual than that. Despite low gearing, I've seen occassional bursts of 14 km/l and 16 km/l from my 2.0 MT on the NLEX. The worst I get in regular rush hour traffic is 8 km/l (versus 7 km/l for 2.0 ATs).

I don't have hard figures, but Civic VTis with MTs get much better fuel economy than those with ATs... Honda ATs at the time weren't very sophisticated.

The new CVTs, though, are something else... none of that "drag" that conventional ATs have.

[orly_andico]

I saw a number of the new Sentra (the Tiida, isn't it?) when I was in China.

It doesn't look so great. I would say even the superannuated Corolla looks better than the Tiida.

If Yulon brought that in, it would still probably suffer from laggard sales. Another fleet special? It is an improvement over the current Sentra though (but then a lot of things are...)

If they brought in the Versa, now.. that would be a different story. Not as handsome as the Mazda3 hatch, but with a longer wheelbase and probably better engine, if they price it right they could have a winner on their hands.

[niky]

Hehe... OT na yun. Yeah, the Versa is much more attractive than the new Sentra... but it sits between the Jazz/Yaris segment and the Civic/Corolla segment.

Looks cute... of course the number of times they plug it on "Heroes" is kinda annoying...

[orly_andico]

'ey niky.. 'indi OT

the Versa is available with a CVT as well.

if they brought that in at sub-800K price it would really be a bombshell.

[niky]

Sana nga...

See? This is me and Ando, in this comic book... See? Same car! Nissan Versa! (ad infinitum, ad nauseum...)

[pup2]

Yeah, it's the only one with CVT... maybe I should have said modern compacts... hehehe...

The new Sentra also has CVT... of course, it's hard to tell when Yulon will bring it in... (maybe 2015?... by then we'll be the only country in the world still selling the N15 Sentra).



But you can still get much much more out of a manual than that. Despite low gearing, I've seen occassional bursts of 14 km/l and 16 km/l from my 2.0 MT on the NLEX. The worst I get in regular rush hour traffic is 8 km/l (versus 7 km/l for 2.0 ATs).

I don't have hard figures, but Civic VTis with MTs get much better fuel economy than those with ATs... Honda ATs at the time weren't very sophisticated.

The new CVTs, though, are something else... none of that "drag" that conventional ATs have.

I totally agree. The CVT on the city is certainly impressive to me ... for an AT of course. Shucks, it made our city seem way more responsive than a mid-sized taurus I drove for a couple of months. Pero until they can get that on almost everything, going for a CVT will be very limiting in terms of choice. As for regular AT, convenient siya ... until you're behind a slow bus going to baguio, a slow trike nearing a curve, or merging on the interstate.

[Jun aka Pekto]

As for regular AT, convenient siya ... until you're behind a slow bus going to baguio, a slow trike nearing a curve, or merging on the interstate.

I've been to some pretty steep inclines along the back roads of the Sierra Nevadas with slow vehicles in front of me. A/T doesn't seem to be a problem on the climb based on my experiences with the 95 Contour and 06 Sonata. Both cars never seemed to be shifting gears all the time. The biggest problem I had with mountain driving using an A/T is the downhill because of the rapid pick up in speed. Engine braking with a M/T car (my 91 Laser) or using the Shiftronic of the Sonata worked best for me.

I'll never take the 95 Contour up that route again. I still remember the burned odor of the brakes.

As for merging into the interstate, it's a matter of getting to the cruising speed of traffic. Any modern car with decent hp should have no problems doing that. I normally use the Sonata for interstate travel. Once I enter the freeway entrance, it's no problem hitting 75mph (the flow speed at our junction) before I merge into traffic. It's then just a matter of easing my way between cars. In fact, it's easier to merge with an A/T because my attention is focused on the cars I have to watch out for.

In CA, some cities make you stop (just before merging) which is downright silly. There, I would see the benefit of M/T. But, if you have a low hp car, it's still going to be tricky trying to merge on the freeway even if it has M/T.

[orly_andico]

well the local mazda3 isn't a "decent hp car" -- but the "Sport AT" helps a lot for getting around those slow-moving buses.

going downhill, I've also noticed, the engine braking effect is MUCH less pronounced, even if the car is locked into a low gear. Damnable torque converter.

[niky]

That's the problem... any modern car with "decent hp" tends to have much more engine than is practical in the Philippines.

Due to our traffic and tax situation, we usually get vehicles with the lower-output engines for the model range... which makes it difficult to overtake or merge onto the highway when they're equipped with ATs.

Of course, driving a car (our Crosswind) that gets to 100 km/h in 35 seconds (I've timed it), I'm one to talk...

[mbeige]

Yeah, Jun said it rightly so - those metering stoplights just before the on-ramp are a PITA whenever there's NO traffic! Minsan nga eh yung iba nakabukas na lang pero it says "meter on" and the light is always green. Sheesh! Waste of taxpayers' money! Besides, it's also a waste of fuel to stop, and then accelerate to speed.

[CVT]

In CA, some cities make you stop (just before merging) which is downright silly. There, I would see the benefit of M/T. But, if you have a low hp car, it's still going to be tricky trying to merge on the freeway even if it has M/T.

I 'kinda' like this though (in my experience, this happens only during morning rush hour traffic)- With a smile in my face,- I imagine myself as a Navy Pilot, being released from a catapult,- taking off from an Aircraft Carrier somewhere in the Pacific Ocean......

2701:bye:

[Jun aka Pekto]

I 'kinda' like this though (in my experience, this happens only during morning rush hour traffic)- With a smile in my face,- I imagine myself as a Navy Pilot, being released from a catapult,- taking off from an Aircraft Carrier somewhere in the Pacific Ocean......

2701:bye:

Those metering stoplights sometimes tended to turn green right when a wall of traffic is bearing down at 80 mph. If you have a fast M/T car (like a Subbie), this is an excellent way to try your hand at 0-100 mph because that wall of traffic isn't slowing down for you especially when they can see it's clear ahead of you. If you're not moving fast enough, they'll get right on your bumper and honk their horn at you.

Yeah. I can see where M/T can come in really handy.

[pup2]

Those metering stoplights sometimes tended to turn green right when a wall of traffic is bearing down at 80 mph. If you have a fast M/T car (like a Subbie), this is an excellent way to try your hand at 0-100 mph because that wall of traffic isn't slowing down for you especially when they can see it's clear ahead of you. If you're not moving fast enough, they'll get right on your bumper and honk their horn at you.

Yeah. I can see where M/T can come in really handy.

Precisely my point! Now if they only brought the darn MT subbies here in the PI rather than forcing AT's on us ...

[Jun aka Pekto]

Precisely my point! Now if they only brought the darn MT subbies here in the PI rather than forcing AT's on us ...

My preferences are normally for sporting cars (2-seaters, 2+2 sports coupes, and/or anything with a turbo) to have M/T. Shifting is part of the fun and I normally limit the occupants in the car to just me. Anything else can have an A/T so long as there's ample power in case I need it.

An A/T turbo Subbie..... That's hard to believe unless Subaru thinks most of its cars in RP will be stuck in traffic. Surely there are M/T Subbies over there.

[Blackraven]

Pero until they can get that on almost everything, going for a CVT will be very limiting in terms of choice.

Yun nga eh. Biggest problem d2 sa Pinas is because only a very few vehicles have CVTs as their auto gearboxes. Only like less than 5% of all vehicles in this country have CVT auto (Honda Fit/Jazz & City lang ata & Nissan Murano among others)....yet look at Japan tapos andami ng kotse na gamit ang CVT.

I guess na for the meantime, the presence of CVT cars in this country will be at the lowest minority. Sayang nga e.

[yuichi]

Yun nga eh. Biggest problem d2 sa Pinas is because only a very few vehicles have CVTs as their auto gearboxes. Only like less than 5% of all vehicles in this country have CVT auto (Honda Fit/Jazz & City lang ata & Nissan Murano among others)....yet look at Japan tapos andami ng kotse na gamit ang CVT.

I guess na for the meantime, the presence of CVT cars in this country will be at the lowest minority. Sayang nga e.

used to drive a 2005 Honda City, CVT is good comparde to others, but i still find it quite boring, but that's just me.