Battle of the Transmissions: M/T vs. A/T

[pup2]

Yeah, it's the only one with CVT... maybe I should have said modern compacts... hehehe...

The new Sentra also has CVT... of course, it's hard to tell when Yulon will bring it in... (maybe 2015?... by then we'll be the only country in the world still selling the N15 Sentra).



But you can still get much much more out of a manual than that. Despite low gearing, I've seen occassional bursts of 14 km/l and 16 km/l from my 2.0 MT on the NLEX. The worst I get in regular rush hour traffic is 8 km/l (versus 7 km/l for 2.0 ATs).

I don't have hard figures, but Civic VTis with MTs get much better fuel economy than those with ATs... Honda ATs at the time weren't very sophisticated.

The new CVTs, though, are something else... none of that "drag" that conventional ATs have.

I totally agree. The CVT on the city is certainly impressive to me ... for an AT of course. Shucks, it made our city seem way more responsive than a mid-sized taurus I drove for a couple of months. Pero until they can get that on almost everything, going for a CVT will be very limiting in terms of choice. As for regular AT, convenient siya ... until you're behind a slow bus going to baguio, a slow trike nearing a curve, or merging on the interstate.

[Jun aka Pekto]

As for regular AT, convenient siya ... until you're behind a slow bus going to baguio, a slow trike nearing a curve, or merging on the interstate.

I've been to some pretty steep inclines along the back roads of the Sierra Nevadas with slow vehicles in front of me. A/T doesn't seem to be a problem on the climb based on my experiences with the 95 Contour and 06 Sonata. Both cars never seemed to be shifting gears all the time. The biggest problem I had with mountain driving using an A/T is the downhill because of the rapid pick up in speed. Engine braking with a M/T car (my 91 Laser) or using the Shiftronic of the Sonata worked best for me.

I'll never take the 95 Contour up that route again. I still remember the burned odor of the brakes.

As for merging into the interstate, it's a matter of getting to the cruising speed of traffic. Any modern car with decent hp should have no problems doing that. I normally use the Sonata for interstate travel. Once I enter the freeway entrance, it's no problem hitting 75mph (the flow speed at our junction) before I merge into traffic. It's then just a matter of easing my way between cars. In fact, it's easier to merge with an A/T because my attention is focused on the cars I have to watch out for.

In CA, some cities make you stop (just before merging) which is downright silly. There, I would see the benefit of M/T. But, if you have a low hp car, it's still going to be tricky trying to merge on the freeway even if it has M/T.

[orly_andico]

well the local mazda3 isn't a "decent hp car" -- but the "Sport AT" helps a lot for getting around those slow-moving buses.

going downhill, I've also noticed, the engine braking effect is MUCH less pronounced, even if the car is locked into a low gear. Damnable torque converter.

[niky]

That's the problem... any modern car with "decent hp" tends to have much more engine than is practical in the Philippines.

Due to our traffic and tax situation, we usually get vehicles with the lower-output engines for the model range... which makes it difficult to overtake or merge onto the highway when they're equipped with ATs.

Of course, driving a car (our Crosswind) that gets to 100 km/h in 35 seconds (I've timed it), I'm one to talk...

[mbeige]

Yeah, Jun said it rightly so - those metering stoplights just before the on-ramp are a PITA whenever there's NO traffic! Minsan nga eh yung iba nakabukas na lang pero it says "meter on" and the light is always green. Sheesh! Waste of taxpayers' money! Besides, it's also a waste of fuel to stop, and then accelerate to speed.

[CVT]

In CA, some cities make you stop (just before merging) which is downright silly. There, I would see the benefit of M/T. But, if you have a low hp car, it's still going to be tricky trying to merge on the freeway even if it has M/T.

I 'kinda' like this though (in my experience, this happens only during morning rush hour traffic)- With a smile in my face,- I imagine myself as a Navy Pilot, being released from a catapult,- taking off from an Aircraft Carrier somewhere in the Pacific Ocean......

2701:bye:

[Jun aka Pekto]

I 'kinda' like this though (in my experience, this happens only during morning rush hour traffic)- With a smile in my face,- I imagine myself as a Navy Pilot, being released from a catapult,- taking off from an Aircraft Carrier somewhere in the Pacific Ocean......

2701:bye:

Those metering stoplights sometimes tended to turn green right when a wall of traffic is bearing down at 80 mph. If you have a fast M/T car (like a Subbie), this is an excellent way to try your hand at 0-100 mph because that wall of traffic isn't slowing down for you especially when they can see it's clear ahead of you. If you're not moving fast enough, they'll get right on your bumper and honk their horn at you.

Yeah. I can see where M/T can come in really handy.

[pup2]

Those metering stoplights sometimes tended to turn green right when a wall of traffic is bearing down at 80 mph. If you have a fast M/T car (like a Subbie), this is an excellent way to try your hand at 0-100 mph because that wall of traffic isn't slowing down for you especially when they can see it's clear ahead of you. If you're not moving fast enough, they'll get right on your bumper and honk their horn at you.

Yeah. I can see where M/T can come in really handy.

Precisely my point! Now if they only brought the darn MT subbies here in the PI rather than forcing AT's on us ...

[Jun aka Pekto]

Precisely my point! Now if they only brought the darn MT subbies here in the PI rather than forcing AT's on us ...

My preferences are normally for sporting cars (2-seaters, 2+2 sports coupes, and/or anything with a turbo) to have M/T. Shifting is part of the fun and I normally limit the occupants in the car to just me. Anything else can have an A/T so long as there's ample power in case I need it.

An A/T turbo Subbie..... That's hard to believe unless Subaru thinks most of its cars in RP will be stuck in traffic. Surely there are M/T Subbies over there.

[pup2]

My preferences are normally for sporting cars (2-seaters, 2+2 sports coupes, and/or anything with a turbo) to have M/T. Shifting is part of the fun and I normally limit the occupants in the car to just me. Anything else can have an A/T so long as there's ample power in case I need it.

An A/T turbo Subbie..... That's hard to believe unless Subaru thinks most of its cars in RP will be stuck in traffic. Surely there are M/T Subbies over there.

Only the Impreza has MT here. All other models (Forester, Outback, Legcay) have AT or Sportshift AT only. In fact, I think it's artificially lowering their sales of the 2.0 Forester (despite it being their most sellable model).

[wren]

Those metering stoplights sometimes tended to turn green right when a wall of traffic is bearing down at 80 mph. If you have a fast M/T car (like a Subbie), this is an excellent way to try your hand at 0-100 mph because that wall of traffic isn't slowing down for you especially when they can see it's clear ahead of you. If you're not moving fast enough, they'll get right on your bumper and honk their horn at you.

Yeah. I can see where M/T can come in really handy.

i have an AT, and i have no problem blending in with a fast traffic. just step on the gas hard.

[suv]

Question mga AT experts...

Sanay kasi ako sa manual...yung sa dad ko na AT bihira ko gamitin....tapos may bago kami bili, AT din.....

Di ba sa MT pag lipat ka ng gear eh controllado mo kung ano rpm gusto mo bago palit gear.....di ba pag 1st gear papalo yung rpm, tapos pag 2nd gear the same thing hanggang sa 4th gear...

Eh bakit sa AT eh isang palo lang yung RPM sa tachometer? eh ang tagal ko ng naka 60kph eh hindi na pumapalo ulit yung RPM?

I mean paano malalaman sa AT kung nasa 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear na?

[Camgen6]

I mean paano malalaman sa AT kung nasa 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear na?

suv, I thought I explained this sa isang thread? malalaman mo na lang sa feel when you drive, for example sa kotse ko I can tell what gear my car is on base on my speed/the way I drive my car. Its just getting used to it.

[wren]

I mean paano malalaman sa AT kung nasa 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear na?

why does it matter? importante lang yung pag-monitor ng RPM sa MT, not so sa AT.

[mbeige]

I mean paano malalaman sa AT kung nasa 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear na?

Automatic transmissions shift smoothly and early when you lightly step on the accelerator. When you step harder, the transmission "cable" tells the transmission to shift later due to more fuel input, which means higher RPM, and later shifting. This later shifting is also felt more.

So if you want to feel how many gears or what gear you're in, from a standing start step on it hard and count the number of times it shifts. Note that if you have, say, a four-speed automatic, and it starts in first gear (some transmissions start in second to save on fuel), then you should feel three shifts. If it's a three-speed automatic, you'll feel two shifts. This pattern should be consistent.

If you're cruising at a constant speed and you're barely stepping on the pedal, then you're in top gear. If you floor it, it will downshift and give maximum acceleration.

On CVT transmissions, I think it's possible to downshift multiple times depending on throttle input - and that makes it fun! However I don't like the way it feels "synthetic" or maybe it's just me. Other than that, CVT is good enough for me.

Automatics are great with cruise control and driving long distances. CVT, for me, is great in the city and gives the car a zippy character.

[Blackraven]

Pero until they can get that on almost everything, going for a CVT will be very limiting in terms of choice.

Yun nga eh. Biggest problem d2 sa Pinas is because only a very few vehicles have CVTs as their auto gearboxes. Only like less than 5% of all vehicles in this country have CVT auto (Honda Fit/Jazz & City lang ata & Nissan Murano among others)....yet look at Japan tapos andami ng kotse na gamit ang CVT.

I guess na for the meantime, the presence of CVT cars in this country will be at the lowest minority. Sayang nga e.

[yuichi]

Yun nga eh. Biggest problem d2 sa Pinas is because only a very few vehicles have CVTs as their auto gearboxes. Only like less than 5% of all vehicles in this country have CVT auto (Honda Fit/Jazz & City lang ata & Nissan Murano among others)....yet look at Japan tapos andami ng kotse na gamit ang CVT.

I guess na for the meantime, the presence of CVT cars in this country will be at the lowest minority. Sayang nga e.

used to drive a 2005 Honda City, CVT is good comparde to others, but i still find it quite boring, but that's just me.