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  1. Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by niky View Post
    RE: Z06 - should be 400hp, GT4 still mistakenly uses the earlier 375-385 hp motor (without/with oil change), when the Z06 of that year should have near 400 hp.
    The Z06 in GT4 was the earliest one, the 2000 model(actually its for the 2001MY). Its engine was rated at 385hp.
    It was in 2002 that the C5 Corvette Z06's engine was upgraded to 405hp.
    Last edited by AG4; October 31st, 2006 at 08:05 PM.

  2. Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    9,894
    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by coiter View Post
    it's really about the race and physique...

    Americans = big, strong, brawny and wasteful

    Japanese = small, agile, ingenius and stingy

    Europeans = precise, neat, aristocratic and snobbish

    ...so they make cars that act and look like themselves...ano kaya sa pinoy? hehe
    well, for anybody who read your post...mahilig magstereotype? hehe

  3. Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    1,985
    #23
    Everyone seems to have a preconceived notion that those muscle cars could only go in a straight line. But in the 60's and early 70's when they were made those cars handled just as well as what the Euros and Japanese makers sold. Some people may not know this but the Mustang, Camaro, Firebird, Challenger, Javelin, etc. competed in SCCA Trans Am racing series. They raced in Watkins Glenn, Sears Point, and other road racing courses. We are not talking about tube frame cars that they use now in most racing series these days. The cars used were the same unibody cars sold to the public outfitted with roll bars and gutted interior. They required 5 liter engines and forced Chevy to come up with their 302ci engine to race the Camaro. Before NASCAR became king the Trans Am series was the one to watch and really did more for the muscle cars than drag racing. Now with the new Mustang and the upcoming Camaro and Challenger there is talk of reviving the series again using the same criteria of no tube chassis cars. Ford has already produced a version of the new Mustang called Mustang FR500(race spec)using a 5 Liter engine with 500hp that could be used in the series.

  4. Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    1,046
    #24
    natatawa naman ako sa mga sinabi ng mga pro jap car enthusiasts dito. for one thing don't assume that bigger displacement automatically means poor fuel economy. there are large displacement american built cars that can match, if not, outperform some V6 japanese cars in terms of fuel economy (of course weight, gearing, oh yeah, the fuel injectors also play a part in the equation ). also, don't assume that displacement means the physical size of the engine is bigger than smaller displacement engines with different designs (i.e. OHV vs OHC). Ford's 4.6L DOHC is bigger and heavier than the previous 5.0 OHV in their Mustang/Cobra cars. likewise, GM's 4.6 DOHC (Cadillac) is taller and wider than its own OHV 5.7 LS1 (Camaro/TransAm/Corvette, 6.0 LS2 (Corvette), and 7.0 LS7 (z06 Corvette) engines .

    the reason behind the preference of putting bigger displacement engines on american cars is the torque that it produces during cruising speed. it is for smooth cruising. have you guys seen a dyno graph of a 500 horsepower big displacement engine versus a 500 horsepower small displacement engine? the graph on the bigger engine has a flatter torque curve, which means that you have more usable power throughout the rpm band. to me, that is more useful than a smaller displacement car that has the same power rating, but needs to bury the tach to 8,500 rpm in order to reach that power. remember peak power is meaningless if your graph resembles Mt. Mayon. there is no replacement for displacement. you can say forced induction, but NO.

    to simply say that american cars are low-tech without further elaborating your claim is idiotic. is it because some cars still use the pushrod design? GM's pushrod engines are tried and proven and a force to be reckon with in the racing circuits (LS 1 and 7). the design has evolved throughout the decades that it is far from being identical to the small block chevy made more than 40 years ago. variants of the small block chevy engine produced today have the ability to shut off half of its cylinders to improve fuel economy. that is not low tech in my book.

    as far as handling, there are american cars that can go toe to toe with just about all japanese (or any import) cars, but comparing a Mustang to an Skyline is like comparing apples to oranges. these are two different cars. Mustang is a pony/muscle car while the Skyline is a gran touring car. One was designed to go straight while the other was designed to go fast on turns. granted there were specialty Mustangs produced to corner-carve, it is still at a disadvantage as the suspension architecture was designed to go straight to begin with. So it is not fair to compare a Mustang and a Skyline and conclude that american cars can't handle.

    the bottom line is personal preferrence. do you want something that roars like a lion upon start up, goose it up a little to hear the wrath of Thor (the god of thunder), cruise comfortably around town without having to push the needle down to 8,000 rpm in order to reach the next stop light? take the big displacement american car. if you want a nimble car, the smaller bodied and smaller engined japanese car might be best for you.

    fyi, just to clarify someone who posted the Corvette info inaccurately:

    pre-LS7 C6 Z06 (this was called C5 Z06) was rated 405 hp. the only 385 hp version was the first model year. the current Z06 is at 505. base model C6 Vette is 405. same as the C5 Z06.

  5. Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    22,710
    #25
    I thought so, too. Had to look back at my copy of GT4 to realize that GT4 still claims the Z06 in the game as the 00' model (thought they started making it in 01? ).

    RE: Other inaccuracies in GT4 still hold, though. Love the game, but the flaws in data make bench racing cars (for comparison articles) really difficult.

    And the Corvette still kicks ass in the game. This is coming from a dyed-in-the-wool Japanese car lover, mind you.

    Ang pagbalik ng comeback...

  6. Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    5,465
    #26
    to simply say that american cars are low-tech without further elaborating your claim is idiotic. is it because some cars still use the pushrod design? GM's pushrod engines are tried and proven and a force to be reckon with in the racing circuits (LS 1 and 7). the design has evolved throughout the decades that it is far from being identical to the small block chevy made more than 40 years ago. variants of the small block chevy engine produced today have the ability to shut off half of its cylinders to improve fuel economy. that is not low tech in my book.
    sorry, that is still low tech in my book. you call that raw, brute power. even GM is slowly killing those engine from their new cars, save the Corvette (were it not for their tradition, patay na rin siguro yun.)

    the design has evolved throughout the decades that it is far from being identical to the small block chevy made more than 40 years ago.
    yeah, and it has even evolved at that rate.

    pushrods? i dont think you'll ever pick a Lumina engine over twin cams of its competitors... heck! even a 2.0L Civic (4cyl) is almost as powerful as that!

  7. Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    #27
    The only problem with pushrods, really, is their low rev-limit (which is responsible for low-specific output) and the advantages multiple cam profiles and cam-timing possible on SOHC or DOHC engines... which gives them more flexibility... but:

    GM's Corvette engine revs to 7000 rpm, some older pushrods could rev up to 8000 rpm... not bad, considering some SOHC engines are limited to 6000 rpm.

    As it is, GM is also planning on introducing variable valve timing pushrods in the future.

    American automakers and some Japanese (for diesel engines) continue to use pushrods because pushrod engines are lighter, smaller, more robust (no chains or belts that may snap after 100-200k miles) and simpler to build. OHV engines can fit in smaller engine bays, and cost less to build and maintain.

    The only remaining problem pushrods have in relation to OHC engines is the lack of flexibility due to the variable timing and larger powerband OHC can give... something that a new generation of VVT pushrods might just be able to address.

    And, by the way... pushrod old, OHC new? They're both the same age.

    Of course, there isn't a small capacity OHV engine that I actually like, but the Corvette's big old 7-liter pushrod is a terrific engine, whichever way you look at it.
    Last edited by niky; November 3rd, 2006 at 05:28 PM.

    Ang pagbalik ng comeback...

  8. Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by basti08 View Post
    japanese likes maximizing their resources.... why need an old pushrod 5 or even 6 liters when you can produce the same power with say a 3L turbo or say, a smaller 4L V8?
    Chevy LS7 7.0L V8, 505hp 470lb.ft torque

    So... name me a production 3.0L turbo or 4.0L V8 that can produce that kind of power?

    ===

    Btw, American engines are not just limited to pushrods... look at the new HEMI engines with MDS!

  9. Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    5,465
    #29
    yes, and they need 7.0L of displacement to achieve that kind of torque.

    take for example, both performance models...
    300C Hemi with 5.7L V8 engine and E39 M5 with 5.0L 32v V8.

    300C 340hp 525NM, M5 400hp 500NM

    i dont see the relevance of its .7L displacement advantage. what? the 25NM of torque?

  10. Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    #30
    The BMW engine is higher strung, so the torque comes in at a higher range. Plus, the M5 engine is handbuilt and uses much much more expensive materials...

    Take that the 300C is a much cheaper car, with a mass-produced engine, and it produces a goodly amount of HP and useable low-down torque (matters a lot in city driving, and in low-rpm highway cruising).

    Ang pagbalik ng comeback...

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American muscle vs japanese ingenuity