Tsikot.ph PHUV Prototype

[OyiL]

hi to all

some more

volt panzer

where did you get that? Is that toy yours? or picture lang. gusto ko nyan. sorry OT.

[varga]

hi to all

some more design inputs

citroen c-crosser

[jpdm]

ogpro,

no need to point out who's not constructive, its a waste of time.

Tsikot PHUv team,

Remember what Japan, Taiwan and Korea did, their miracle economies started by building their own capabilities--e.g coming up with imitations of western products through reverse engineering; unreliable and ugly vehicles, tvs and radio. The important lesson here is that the japanese, taiwanese and koreans, with eyes closed, patronized their national products. In the 1950s, products coming from these countries are of poor quality.

Whatever money these " inferior industrial products" earned in their home country, were re-invested in R&D to improve their products.

Now, especially Japan (no.2 economic power:source of world class industrial products), Korea (3rd largest economy in asia), and Taiwan (top 20 trading nation in the world with OEM capability in auto, electrical, semicon and electronics).

Its a growth model that we should emulate, konting sakripisyo, sa PHUV ng MVPMAP, sa PHUV ng Tsikot at ang i-de-develop pag ibang PHUV.

Bilib naman ako sa mga nag-ko-contribute sa thread. Hein et al know what they are talking about. And that is what the PHUV proponents and the dying domestic auto industry need.

Again win-win solution ito. pag nabuhay ang parts industry dahil sa PHUV-the ancillary (related) industries will follow. maraming makikinabang na FILIPINO!

Look at Korea, di ba? hiram lang sa sasakyang hapon ang itsura at kaso-kasuan ng mga sasakyan nila tulad ng hyundai (mitsubishi), kia (mazda), sangyong (mercedes), daewoo (gm).

Fast forward today, Hyundai has Tucson and Starex, best selling di ba?

Kung kaya ng Korea ( kasing laki lang ng Mindanao), kaya din natin. payag ba tayo na mas matalino sila sa atin at bobo tayo? Kung pang star section ang Japan, taiwan, Korea,Thailand--tayo dun sa pinakabulok na section?

Just imagine if we can work together, perhaps by simple endorsement and through word of mouth that whatever PHUV will come out , we can help sell the PHUVt then, cguro naman aayusin na ng MVPMAP ang PHUV o maggagawa ng ibang version to suit the sophisticated taste of private owners.

I hope the PHUV will be patronize by the million strong transport group in the Philippines and gain loyal following from private owners too, if not in urban areas at least in the countryside.

Long live the PHUV proponents!!!

[hein]

The important lesson here is that the japanese, taiwanese and koreans, with EYES CLOSED, patronized their national products. In the 1950s, products coming from these countries are of poor quality.

BLIND NATIONALISM has no place in this GLOBALIZED world. Don't get me wrong, I do patronize Philippine products but I demand quality for my hard-earned money. I prefer JOLLIBEE over McDO, OISHI over PRINGLES, C2 over COCA-COLA.

The problem kasi with MVPMAP kasi is they are shoving us with an INFERIOR-made PHUV which is no different from the ANFRAs and asking the market to pay almost P400,000 for it. At that level, the competition is FIERCE. From the second-hand REVOs, L300's, ADVENTURES and CROSSWINDS to the feature-packed Subic 4x4 Pajeros. The people will be comparison-shopping before they give up that much money.

And jpdm, how can be so sure that these Chinese engines would be reliable? Have you had any experience with them as an owner?

[A121]

BLIND NATIONALISM has no place in this GLOBALIZED world. Don't get me wrong, I do patronize Philippine products but I demand quality for my hard-earned money. I prefer JOLLIBEE over McDO, OISHI over PRINGLES, C2 over COCA-COLA.

The problem kasi with MVPMAP kasi is they are shoving us with an INFERIOR-made PHUV which is no different from the ANFRAs and asking the market to pay almost P400,000 for it. At that level, the competition is FIERCE. From the second-hand REVOs, L300's, ADVENTURES and CROSSWINDS to the feature-packed Subic 4x4 Pajeros. The people will be comparison-shopping before they give up that much money.

And jpdm, how can be so sure that these Chinese engines would be reliable? Have you had any experience with them as an owner?

~oooohhh blind nationalism, i like the term. there was a time in south korea that foreign cars such as BMWs are vandalized. the koreans are too proud of their hyundais and kias.

i am not saying that the thing is good but the thing is just a prototype. there are lots of things for improvement.

and...

if you don't like the car, then the car isn't for you. its for someone else.

[ogpro]

ogpro,

no need to point out who's not constructive, its a waste of time.

Well you certainly wasted time enough to call them names eh? Kung may pinatatamaan ka, panindigan mo. Where do you get off calling people who are trying to keep things realistic ELITISTA, and then try to shrug it off when you're called on it?

Out of respect to this thread, I'm not going to take this any further here, but know that I'm not going to let you get away with calling people names and then walk away from it. Your colors are showing, and as much as you want to tout the yellow, blue, and red, it ain't pretty. You just displayed the pinoy's biggest obstacle, themselves. Someone points out something that could use improvement or that might be an issue and you flip out and call them negative instead of dealing with it. That's something your nationalistic rah rah rah isn't going to fix. It's one thing to be vocally hyper-nationalistic, but I guess it takes a hell of a lot more cajones to face an issue. (translation = "put your money where your mouth is")

Take it to PM if you wish, but I'm through with you here.

[hein]

~oooohhh blind nationalism, i like the term. there was a time in south korea that foreign cars such as BMWs are vandalized. the koreans are too proud of their hyundais and kias.

i am not saying that the thing is good but the thing is just a prototype. there are lots of things for improvement.

and...

if you don't like the car, then the car isn't for you. its for someone else.

Its a NEW world now, baby. BMW is the top selling luxury import in KOREA.

Unfortunately, when you are set for production within the year I don't think there is not much you can change.


Look at the CHEAP radio cassette. Even my maid has a CD/MP3 player. Sana naman they plugged up the holes before showing this to GMA. Konting PULIDO naman. Can't you even hide those screws?!?

Are you seriously going to sell 30,000 units of this in a year at P400T?

[oldblue]

yun chevy venture namin dati , ang resale value na ata ngaun 350k - 380k. napakasarap sumakay para ka nasa eroplano

na-miss ko tuloy hehehe

[jedi]

Again, this is my last and final warning to everyone, this thread is for Tsikot phuv prototype, post your comments/rants etc etc to the mvpmap's phuv feedback thread. anything posted after this that is considered offtopic will be deleted... pasensya na pero gumugulo ang thread na ito eh...

pinaghiwahiwalay ko na nga yung mga threads para mas madali sa mga readers...

PARANG AWA NYO NA!!!

[knight23]

the thread is already pretty long, so please be considerate... just ranting...

1. why not start on an existing platform, like what the China is doing. buy the old designs (ie: previous gen. revo) and start from there.

2. the goal would be to produce a vehicle which would be able to compete at the currently available AUVs and vans in terms of reliability, performance and looks at a MUCH cheaper price. we are trying to move forward so it must be competitive.

3. minimize the use of imported components (limited to the engine and transmission), all components should be made locally in a modern(competitive) assembly line, maybe buy(donate/invest) the equipments from the closing plants in the US. and also how's the quality of steel made here in the philippines?

4. financial support/research partnership from foreign government/companies. and also this should be tax-free(to keep cost down).

[architect]

*Hein,

I am not going to argue with you on the issues you have raised. As I have previously said, you do have a point. But what I take issue with is your mindset.

You recently signed up in the skyscrapercity forum, too, apparently just so that you can bash the efforts of the MVPMAP. Evidently it is not enough for you to do your bashing in this forum. You simply have to spread your antagonism.

I simply can’t figure out what your objective is in doing so. But your fervor in pointing out the flaws of the MVPMAP PhUV does make me wonder if you have a personal vendetta against someone or a company that is part of MVPMAP.

Proving your point is one thing. Bashing the efforts of others is something else. As I have said before, it is far too easy to be timid and to rationalize one’s timidness by ridiculing the efforts of others who dare take the steps one dare not take. Why can’t you even acknowledge MVPMAP’s courage to attempt to come up with a PhUV? The truth is that their immediate success is not that critical. What is important is that they have paved the way for others to follow – either by riding their momentum or by picking up where they will leave off.

Reviving the PhUV program is no easy task and this new MVPMAP PhUV might as well be considered a baby step. Clearly no one can guarantee that even the collective efforts will be successful. That is why the program needs all the support it can get so we Filipinos can get to the point where we can compete globally. That obviously is a long-term goal, given that international competition is already impeding the local industry’s growth. Unfortunately, with Filipinos like you, we do not even need other races to trample on our efforts.

[orly_andico]

i like that mowag eagle..... all flat planes and looks better.

i notice there are a bunch of chinese euro-1 to euro-3 diesel engines on alibaba. there is a 4jb1 derivative, this is probably what the MVPMAP PHUV uses, and probably would be the best one for the Tsikot PHUV as well. the Chinese also make a CRDi diesel! but given their tech base, I think the 4jb1 is the best choice..

[jpdm]

BLIND NATIONALISM has no place in this GLOBALIZED world. Don't get me wrong, I do patronize Philippine products but I demand quality for my hard-earned money. I prefer JOLLIBEE over McDO, OISHI over PRINGLES, C2 over COCA-COLA.
The problem kasi with MVPMAP kasi is they are shoving us with an INFERIOR-made PHUV which is no different from the ANFRAs and asking the market to pay almost P400,000 for it. At that level, the competition is FIERCE. From the second-hand REVOs, L300's, ADVENTURES and CROSSWINDS to the feature-packed Subic 4x4 Pajeros. The people will be comparison-shopping before they give up that much money.
And jpdm, how can be so sure that these Chinese engines would be reliable? Have you had any experience with them as an owner?

hein,

First, Im not talking about of a brand of blind nationalism here.
The brand of nationalism Im talking about is a rational type of nationalism.

A domestic sector asking us to help. why not? tutal , initial phase pa lang naman e ng PHUV (baka i-adopt pa nila Tsikot PHUV).

Parang pasyente, ang domestic motor industry ay parang nasa ICU ngayon.it needs help. E di tulungan muna nating maka-recover. Then, just like what the koreans did, pag-healthy na yung industry at kumita na--its payback time. anung payback-- dapat itaas na quality ng mga susunod na PHUV models na i-offer sa publiko lalo na sa private owners.

Kasi, ala talagang magyayari, kung di tayo tutulong. Di maka-establish mga local industry kasi overwhelming ang kalaban. Kalaban na nga mga TNCs and MNCs plus foreign corporate/ government interests, tapos, yung target na market, mga Pinoy kalaban din. Parang boxing. Kalaban mo japanese, american and european and even asian auto behemoths (heavy-weights), tapos pinoy (flyweight lang kasi Diyos mio, PHUV nga lang e). Alam mo na kung ano ang tsansa. Ang maganda, lalaban tayo (kaya naglaunch ng PHUV). Ang masakit, yung corner natin (mga kapwa pinoy: puro pintas lang; Hein, di ka kasama dun)parang host ba ng Top Gear bumanat) ay parang nilagyan pa ng ativan ang inumin ng pambato natin.

Ayun, 1st round palang--knock-out na.

I have mentioned globalization in one of my posts. You know, This f---k--g globalization thing will not help us. It has even damage our local industries almost beyond repair.

Globalization (a.k.a American Hegemony or American nationalism beyond US borders) is rammed down to our Third World throats ( and the rest of the Third World--the LDCs, DMCs what the hell, whatever we are called by the IMF-WB) by Bretton Woods Institutions (IMF-WB, WTO) Paris Club, G7 etc. mainly because these rich and powerful countries would not like a country like the Philippines to join them. Why? because, where can they source cheap minerals that they can use to run their industrial plants i.e. nickel, iron kung mismong tayo gagamit para sa industriya natin?

We export semi-processed minerals. Japan, US in turn will sell to us finished products such as cars/ heavy machinery. The theory of comparative advantage will tell us that we are at the disadvantage position vis-a-vis industrialized countries. mas mahal import kaysa ini-export natin.

Kaya, kaka-trade deficit(mas marami ginastos kaysa kinita), natin dahil sa pagbili ng autoparts, vehicles etc. mula japan, US, Singapore etc. we need to borrow money to stay afloat and finance our needs. Kaya masaya kong ibabalita sa inyong mga kababayan kong Tsikoteers, 100 billion US dollars na utang natin ( domestic and foreign). kaya kaapu-apuhan natin na hindi pinapanganak ay may utang ng 40,000 pesos sa mga international banks at foreign governments.

Hein, it a vicious cycle.

Thailand and Malaysia natuto. Lahat ng insentibo IbINIigay sa mga foreign investors to lure then to MANUFACTURE PARTS AND EVEN THE WHOLE VEHICLE within THAILAND AND MALAYSIA. Naki-tie up sa mga domestic manufacturers. In other words, Vios (Toyota) and City (Honda) for instance, I believe, where entirely developed in Thailand (yan ata yung sinsabi ng Japan na "Asian cars"). Correct me if Im wrong. Kaya vibrant ang economy nila. Pag maraming industriya maraming may pera. Pag maraming may pera maraming pambili at bibili. Sa almost a million vehicles produced in Thailand, 38% lang ini-export. Sa madaling salita may pambili Thais.

Thus, Thailand and Malaysia earn more from their auto industry catapulting them to the 21st century and making then part of the elite NICs (newly-Industrializing countries). Isang brand ito ng rational nationalism.

Hein, tayo hindi. pero sa pamamagitan ng PHUV , mararating natin ang narating ng dalawang bansa na ito.

Labas lahat pera natin dahil sa import. Sa mga bansang nabanggit ko---Japan, Korea, Singapore, Thailand , malaysia at ang valedictorian China, puro kita sila (i mean surplus). Papasok ang pera lagi, kasi, protektado(yan ang nationalism) ng gobyerno at ng mamamayan mismo nila ang kanilang merkado.

hein, tayo hindi.

Chinese-made engine.oks na rin. pero sana may transition period again. For the meantime.ok. pag nagtagal, palitan na powertrain either Philippine design with japanese or german technical supervision.

Ang Hapee toothpaste dyan nagsimula. may technical assistance mula sa isang japanese company. noong una di nga at par ang lasa sa duopoly-colgate at close up. pero, binili, unti unti , kumita, ni-re-invest ni Cecilio Pedro ( may-ari) ang profit sa enhancement ng quality ng hapee. ngayon, slowly, nabreak na yung duopoly, may alternative na.

Kaya sa Konting tulong mula sa concerned Pinoys at sa mga may malasakit sa industriyang Filipino, pag-tiisan ng konti, pag umarangkada na, lets demand something in return.

Ganyan dapat at ito ang mangyayari sa Tsikot PHUV at MVPMAP PHUV. In the future, Lea Salonga might be recruited to be the endorser of the Tsikot/MVPMAP PHUV (tulad ng HAPEE).

[Helios]

"...di puedeng pansundo sa syota o iparada sa harap ng mga gimikan sa the Fort."

:hysterical: probably why some were disappointed

but seriously, this is a learning experience for our version of prototipo. we just have to wait another month or so for the unveiling of Chery's which would be another case study. Anyone here who's able to get an in-depth interview with the manufacturer re the whole process? btw is tsikot-phuv a price-driven or price-restraint project? Perhaps we can incorporate what's theirs with ours like the leather strap for the door and the cd player to save up on cost just kidding. I welcome some of the previous constructive comments given here though. Thanks to this red PhUV your suggestions are now more tangible and realistic. It's easier to see the direction where we're going.

[jpdm]

ogpro,

noted.

[BRROOOMMMM]

Sir.........relaks lang........pro kung ako e like the losser candidate for senator spent 100million bucks or more.........siguro may share na ako sa goverment natin........na pwedi nating ipagmalake na 100% pinoy made na pweding e komapara sa mga nag lalakhan companyang gumagawa ng tsikot natin........from engine up to the smallest parts of the car.......kaya nating gumawa nyan..........regards

[orly_andico]

I think it should be cost-driven.

Eh jeepney nga 200K lang sa isang showroom sa may Balintawak. Yun dapat ang target!

Mowag Eagle! Mowag Eagle! look, exposed hinges! flat metal plates for doors and body panels! non-shiny paint job! I like it!



Kahit jeepney technology and powertrain, basta lang wag jeepney ang hitsura, i think it would fly.

[oldblue]

I have mentioned globalization in one of my posts. You know, This f---k--g globalization thing will not help us. It has even damage our local industries almost beyond repair.

Globalization (a.k.a American Hegemony or American nationalism beyond US borders) is rammed down to our Third World throats ( and the rest of the Third World--the LDCs, DMCs what the hell, whatever we are called by the IMF-WB) by Bretton Woods Institutions (IMF-WB, WTO) Paris Club, G7 etc. mainly because these rich and powerful countries would not like a country like the Philippines to join them. Why? because, where can they source cheap minerals that they can use to run their industrial plants i.e. nickel, iron kung mismong tayo gagamit para sa industriya natin?

you know what. just stop it with this globalization issue. it's irreversible na. why? bec. globalization happened almost exactly the same time as the internet. one can't exist without the other.

if we dont have globalization, but we have broadband access. revolution ang mangyayari hehehe sama mo na mga housewives na nagbebenta ng mineral make-ups, apple chocolates, rtw's, perfumes, scrapbookings and bloggins sa internet

[jpdm]

oldblue,

you are right.anyway, Im excited with the Tsikot PHUV prototype!

[oldblue]

double post