Tsikot.ph PHUV Prototype

[OyiL]

classic? not so....
needs more...something

[dprox]

Good idea! Would you guys have any info regarding the going prices for certain components? That would help with the math.

We're waiting for some local mfrs to submit catalogues ... or leaflets ... or flyers or ... cards or ... ... so sorry, wala pa raw spec/price data.
The going rate for a brand new NKR-type rolling chassis with power train is P350K. Oops! Wala nang pera para sa bodyworks at markups, made in China pa pala lahat nun! At that rate, goodbye PhUV hello multicab? :dunno: Canvassing ulit.
FLASH! I just got a reply from Kaiji Automobile Spare Parts Manufacture Co., Ltd. (PROC)
4JB1 : RMB 15,800 (= PhP 97,241.79 )
4JB1T : RMB 19,800 (= PhP 121,859.97 )
I suppose the second one is the turbo version. Engine lang ata yun. Wala pang tranny.

I think powertrain would be the number one consideration. In this current Chinese invasion, I've seen Chinese manufacturers trump up the fact that they're delivering Japanese powerplants in some of their models. In fact, one pickup importer charges 100k extra for the model with the Isuzu engine.
AUV operators will forgive any sins of handling/ride/refinement, as long as they're getting a good engine. But that leaves very little room for anything else.

Thanks for the input. That means we really have to use brand new engines. And adopt a RUDIMENTARY design that will get its classiness from aesthetic proportion and other innovative style features.
I can't help recalling the original Land Rover Series I-III. It's styling was not much to talk about. Pangit nga talaga e; 'di lang walang ilong, binuntal pa paloob :bwahaha: Pagkatapos yung riserba nakapatong dun sa hood! Ngek! Mas gwapo pa nga yung pinsan niyang PUJ (until it later changed gender at medyo sumobra nga sa pagbihis). But people learned to like the Land Rover because of performance, and it went on to become a British icon (until it later changed nationality, diversified, and grew a proper nose). And like its pinoy cousin, 'obsolescence-proof' nga din yung basic design niya, thanks to Lolo Willy. And BTW, that's why my Baby, Chok, looks the way it does.

http://www.winwaed.com/landy/history/series1.shtml
http://www.stuartxchange.org/Jeepney.html
http://disenyopilipino.ph/dprox4x4chokaranspecs.html

[OyiL]

updated toyota tamaraw gen 2

[hein]

I am just curious. How did you arrive at the belief that we are 30 years behind as opposed to 20 or even 10? And do you mean just automotive technology or technology in general?

30 years ago there was no World Wide Web. Today local public high school students have Internet access, where just about all sorts of the latest technological information is available. Granted implementing them requires funding but truly worthy projects will never lack for investors or sponsors. (The PhUV project of the tsikot group has interested sponsors/investors from the US and the Middle East, not to mention local parties.)

As for local automotive technology specifically, are you aware one of the PhUV core group member holds a patent for a rotary engine? Another had his entire team recruited to the Middle East to build a truck prototype. If we are truly 30 years behind, do you think the rest of the world would bother to hire Filipinos for automotive work?

As for a modest-looking AUV, what is wrong with that? For as long as it truly embodies Filipino characteristics, both aesthetically and functionally, and is both affordable and reliable, there is no reason for us to be ashamed of the resultant PhUV. Having that mindset is akin to being ashamed of your son simply because he is not handsome, notwithstanding whatever positive characteristics he might possess.

That said, aesthetics is the function of the automotive designer, or designers in general. The low budget should not be a hindrance. Instead, it should serve as a challenge. Just as developing an affordable, functional, and reliable PhUV should serve as a challenge for those of us who do not subscribe to the defeatist mindset that sadly seems to be so pervasive these days.

Actually, I was being NICE. The truth is we are more than 30 years behind in automotive building technology. Below is a 30-year old 1977 Ferrari 308GTB that is the state-of-the art during its time. It has a V8 engine that
churns out 255 horsepower and does 0-100kph in about 7 seconds.

Tell me architect, can the Filipinos build one up from scratch in the year 2007?

In fact, the DIESEL engine was invented in 1892 and we still have to use an ISUZU engine to power the PhUV. Until now, I have not seen an entirely Filipino-designed and built automobile engine runing in the streets.

The PhUV will have modest looks because our coachbuilding capabilities does not yet allow us to manufacture the complicated shapes that is commonly seen in cars today.

Of course, we have to start somewhere. but don't expect a breakthrough product. We still have a long way to go before we can be called world-class. Probably in 30 years- because it took the Koreans that long.

[drey]

People never learn the internet's real potential. Tsk Tsk Tsk...

[architect]

Actually, I was being NICE. The truth is we are more than 30 years behind in automotive building technology. Below is a 30-year old 1977 Ferrari 308GTB that is the state-of-the art during its time. It has a V8 engine that
churns out 255 horsepower and does 0-100kph in about 7 seconds.
Tell me architect, can the Filipinos build one up from scratch in the year 2007?

In fact, the DIESEL engine was invented in 1892 and we still have to use an ISUZU engine to power the PhUV. Until now, I have not seen an entirely Filipino-designed and built automobile engine runing in the streets.

The PhUV will have modest looks because our coachbuilding capabilities does not yet allow us to manufacture the complicated shapes that is commonly seen in cars today.

Of course, we have to start somewhere. but don't expect a breakthrough product. We still have a long way to go before we can be called world-class. Probably in 30 years- because it took the Koreans that long.

I guess from a purist’s standpoint, one can say Filipinos are 30 years behind simply because we can not build from scratch a 1977 Ferrari that was state-of-the-art for its time. But by the same token, Filipinos must be considered 20 years behind in computer technology simply because in all likelihood we can not build from scratch a mid 80s Cray supercomputer that was considered state-of-the-art technology for its time. Heck, we can’t even today build from scratch an original IBM PC! So we must be at least 26 years behind in computer technology!

But surely you will have to agree with the folly of such a statement considering the Philippines is a pioneer in mobile solutions; the source for top-caliber 3D graphic artists, and a cost-effective alternative for various BPOs in the global market.

Like computer technology, automotive technology is not a singular process that always results in the production of a single item (vehicle, in this case). Instead it is a multi-disciplinary field with various advancements and developments being achieved from time to time, some by Filipinos.

While it may be true that at this point we can not build a vehicle from scratch, the fact that so many talented home-grown, home-skilled Filipinos are employed overseas, working on innovative automotive projects in various capacities renders this point moot. It then becomes a matter of economical feasibility rather than that of being technologically challenged.

Moreover, in an increasingly globalized economy, it would be foolhardy for anyone to keep a product (intended for sale) ethnically pure without consideration for more cost-effective foreign-sourced materials. As it were, I doubt very much if there is any mass produced vehicle today that does not include foreign-made or foreign-designed components.

Is the Lexus GS to be considered not Japanese because it was designed by the Italian Giugiaro? Are some of BMW's models Chinese just because their engines are made in China? Just what makes an automobile belong to a country – is it the brand, is it its assembly place? So when do we designate the PhUV as no longer Filipino? When we use a Japanese or Chinese engine?

So what does the capacity to build a vehicle from scratch prove? More importantly, what is its relevance in determining whether Filipinos can properly harness technological breakthroughs to produce our own car – one that no other country can rightfully claim as their own?

[dprox]

My turn to be nice. Actually, both hein and architect have valid points. I can see that hein was just stating a fact. It just so happens, FYI, na bugbog na yung point na yon. Those who frequent this thread already take that as a given. Galit nga kami about that situation, di ba? That's why hein's overstatement hit a raw nerve and appeared like a putdown.

I say let's move forward, given the givens. There's enough Filipino automotive brain trust out there to build a vehicle that would make the Bugatti Veyron look like a Helix pomatia -- given the proper financial support (and if there were big enough oligarch market). But we are designing an economy vehicle here.

(Friendly advice lang to hein: this might not be the best thread to post a Ferrari pic. Else people might think you are the wife of Don Tiburcio de Espadana. Remember Dona Consolacion from Rizal's Fili? Her delusion was that she was a Spanish Dona :cosmo: instead of an indio chicka. Read the rest of the thread, so you know exactly what you stumbled into.)

HAVING SAID THAT, I've always thought that a Filipino UV should use APPROPRIATE TECHNOLOGY. Ergo, it need not be hi-tech, just OPTIMUM and DOABLE, given an imperfect (and deteriorating) environment. The section on "Values in Science, Education, Technology" in my paper (again) explains where I'm coming from. http://www.disenyopilipino.ph/filipi...um.html#values - if you have time.

Three thoughts attack me now.

FIRST, we have to disabuse ourselves of the myth that recycling is bad for the auto industry. Just because I recycle doesn't make me a dummy. Recycling can be wiser than most people think. Today, it is clearly the first of many solutions to reducing our per capita "carbon footprint". Recycling is an ethic that is diametrically opposed to wanton overproduction and unbridled consumerism.

As for a modest-looking AUV, what is wrong with that? For as long as it truly embodies Filipino characteristics, both aesthetically and functionally, and is both affordable and reliable, there is no reason for us to be ashamed of the resultant PhUV.

Looking back now, Clodualdo Delfin, Leonardo Sarao, and Anastacio Francisco were brilliant recyclists who never really intended the PUJ to be a high tech "flag carrier". The PUJ started out as just an avante-garde calesa, glorified by whatever available technology there was, post WW2. It was sheer native genius and improvisation that made it possible for the lowly PUJ to eventually become a Pinoy "flag carrier". Cinderella story yun. It was the "PhuV" of its time, and it still endures -- even in Papua NG, South Africa, Sierra Leone, and other nations. Di na nga gaano tanggap ang PUJ sa Pinas, kaya hayun, nag-OFW na rin siya, doing well abroad! (http://www.pacificmagazine.net/issue...ernment-briefs, http://www.vso.org.uk/news/programmenews/vietnam.asp)

Recycling is bad only for the bigboys (who exploit our tendencies to excess) at mga materyoso who bury precious financial resources into vanity car collections for bragging rights, habang yung tsinelas ni Mang Pandoy may 2-inch vent port sa suelas. Make no mistake about it - recycling has served the Third World (now called Southern Hemisphere) poor very very well.

SECOND, we have to disabuse ourselves of the myth that diesel engines are born evil. Untrue. It's the BADLY MAINTAINED ones that suck, er... belch pala. BTW, naknamp*cha - the Philippines leads the world in coco-biodiesel additive technologies, for goodness sakes! So, if there's anyone who can stop the belching, WE should be the ones! While you won't have perfectly clean air, it can still be clean enough. Consider the amount of energy and resources required to build an engine, only to throw it away even if it still works! That's ecological stupidity that leads to environmental suicide.

THIRD, notwithstanding #2 above, we have to bring home innovative technologies that will position us among the leaders in environmentally friendly propulsion systems. Let's atone for laughing at Daniel Dingle and other inventors who at least tried, and are still trying despite the sarcasm and non-cooperation of fellow Filipinos. Many of them, despite being vindicated, were never rewarded for their vision and drive.
On the horizon are the EVs, the hydrolysis engine, and even magnetic levitation. Believe it or not, Pinoys are at the forefront in these fields (and many of them are not even products of high-tuition schools!). Kaya dapat ma-streamline yung IP & patenting processes. Bakit - dayuhan lang ba ang may intellectual properties? (Let's take some lessons from the Hebrew diaspora. The state of Israel was established only in 1948. Look at Israeli technology now! Hello OFWs.)

... being ashamed of your son simply because he is not handsome, notwithstanding whatever positive characteristics he might possess.

Hey architect, I like that analogy. I'm looking at my son, and I see someone who will be more handsome and brighter than his Dad, :1stplace: no matter what anybody else says ...

[donbuggy]

Drawing no. H-12 - PHUV with "Philippine Flag" grille

[drey]

My AVATAR
The custom 1st gen FMC Anfra:
Lowered and modified to a pick-up
I used my daughter's color pencils

sir oyil,

you should make an SUV version of this. It looks like a G-Wagen. A Higher clearance and big off road tires would be nice.

[ocanursjr]

ive seen ur website dprox, im really impress of ur fil version of pick up. thumbs up!why dont u join mvpmap? surely,u'll be a big contributor to our phil automotive industry. can't really say that we are 30 years behind in terms of our technology. we need investor and disipline. but if we are gonna compare our passport to developed countries like the us and the uk. i can say we are at the very bottom. u know what i mean guys!