Tsikot.ph PHUV Prototype

[OyiL]

One of my very old sketch.

[Si 06]

3D model will suit fine for simulations and manipulations, but nothing beats a scale model for evaluation and for gathering data.

BSME> Bachelor of Science in Mech Engineering

Scale prototype for evaluation and testing. RC type will be difficult to evaluate because you will not know how it will drive and handle.

[Pox]

Guys,

Question: If, and it is a BIG if, we have access to foreign funding for the project, do we consider it, given the project's nature is somewhat nationalistic or patriotic? Would like to hear your opinions. Thanks.

Sir, my POV for this..mas ok kung puro pinoy at sa pinoy din ung fundings kung sakali. pag kasi may nahalo ng foreign group ay parang mawawala na nga ung nationalism or patriotism.. just my 2 cents ah.

[OyiL]

Off-roader

[ehnriko]

Sir, my POV for this..mas ok kung puro pinoy at sa pinoy din ung fundings kung sakali. pag kasi may nahalo ng foreign group ay parang mawawala na nga ung nationalism or patriotism.. just my 2 cents ah.

THIS IS A GOOD IDEA... AGREE AKO.

[orly_andico]

Pwede bang maki-singit? Marami kasi akong ideas, this post will be all over the place.

I have also thought about this problem, but from a totally different perspective. My perspective was, produce a cheap, fuel-efficient vehicle which can carry three people and their luggage.

You see, I was not thinking about an AUV replacement, but rather a city car, much like a Smart Car. I actually ended up parting out the thing (because I was planning to build it, all by myself!) and canvassing for prices.

Here was my concept:

1) the car is a space-frame design, not a monocoque (very hard to make) and not a body-on-frame

Space frame designs can be very strong, are relatively easy to manufacture, and are cheap. A lot of "kit cars" like Niky's favorites are space frames.

I know zero about mechanical engineering but I thought by constructing the space frame from schedule 40 1.5" thick EMT pipe it would be strong enough. If you look on instructables.com and bikesatwork.com there are lots of space frame designs there, including a bike trailer that can carry 400 lb of cargo.

2) the engine is a 5hp (!) Honda general-purpose engine, the G-200Q. This costs 9,300 pesos brand new.

The G-200Q consumes 290g of fuel per ps-hr. That means running at half-throttle 2.5 hp it consumes 725g of fuel per hour, which is roughly 1 liter of fuel. Assuming an average speed of 15 km/h which is the average speed in Metro Manila, that's 15 km/L. Not fantastic by a mile, but it can be lived with.

Since a lot of time is spent idling, the actual fuel efficiency will almost certainly be higher (heck a Honda City can do 15 km/L).

Now you can see why I was seriously thinking of building it myself... it is actually affordable enough for one person to build a prototype.

3) It has a two- or three-speed belt drive automatic transmission and a centrifugal clutch, as well as a differential. these parts come from go-karts and you can buy them on e-bay.

4) the engine is mounted at the back, and the rear suspension is a De Dion, just like the Smart car

5) it has ONE fat, shrouded wheel at the front for steering. there is no power steering.

so in essence, this thing I dreamed up of is a tricycle.

The problem I was unable to solve is how to put airconditioning on the thing. the G200 engine is too weak to power a regular car A/C.

on the other hand, a thermoelectric cooler is too expensive.

My idea is, space frame chassis, molded fiberglass body. I don't know how safe this thing would be though but a properly-constructed space frame is stronger than a unibody.

Finally: why did I not push through with building this thing? (I have no artistic skills, my plan was to have someone weld together the space frame, I would assemble the mechanical parts on it, and yun na yun)

You see, my motive for this whole design project was personal, I wanted a fuel-efficient small vehicle for city driving because my current (old) vehicle consumes lots of fuel. I set a budget of 50K. Kaya naman kung kaya. The thing is, you can buy a used Kia Pride for 50k, it will have a working aircon and will consume small amounts of fuel.

Kaya hindi siya worth it. Pero if you're building up a cottage car-making industry, worth it siya. I think the price should be 50k or at most 75k para within range of the scooters pa rin yung price niya. Above that... di na worth it.

Yung PHUV marami nga kaya na pasahero pero if it costs 300K up, middle class lang makaka-afford niyan. Look at how many scooters there are on the streets compared to jeepneys.

Also to repeat Niky's statement, mobility is empowering for the poor. a 300K or even 200K vehicle is out of reach of the poor. I'm in China right now and tambak tambak ang Chery QQ on the streets. Mukhang kawawa, belching blue smoke (baka mga 2-stroke yan or sobrang blowby na makina) pero they do empower their owners.

OK now to my comments on the PHUV discussion so far:

1) in order to have the pickup flat bed and large passenger capacity, I don't see how you can construct it EXCEPT as a body-on-frame design.

I think only Honda (Pilot) has managed to make a pickup that is not body-on-frame.

2) if it's body-on-frame, what makes it any different from the jeepneys we all see running around?

personally I've had enough of jeepneys. As Niky said in one of his posts, personal mobility enables the poor to uplift themselves. And for me personal mobility is not a 3-ton people hauler, it's a 3-passenger city car.

Just my 2c.

[ehnriko]

As to Orli's Idea... it's a very old idea. I don't want to use the term "MY IDEA" - all ideas come from one source only.. all we do are innovations.

I want to share again another one of my este - Humanity's ideas... I hate to think that Pinoys are flagerrists and please let us all prove to the world that this impression is wrong. Let's strive to be the original.

I hope we can make the Filipinos dream once more... and have our own cultural identity at the same time - be empowered with our own car culture...

[OyiL]

OK... sa affordability panalo . but are filipinos ready for this type of car?

[ehnriko]

oyil, dprox, Arhcitect rimski, orli, everyone... What do you think of these initial concepts... THis is what comes to my mind when you talk about cheapt PhUV design... pero practical

[orly_andico]

You're absolutely right.
That is one ugly mutha. Nobody would pay 50k or 75k for something like that.

But if it looked like a Smart Car... I think pwede na yun. The Smart Car also has interchangeable skins. Maganda yung concept nila na "Tridion Cell" which is basically the entire chassis tapos just hang the panels off it. Ang alam ko the Chinese are making a Smart Car lookalike na..

OK... sa affordability panalo . but are filipinos ready for this type of car?

[ehnriko]

OK... sa affordability panalo . but are filipinos ready for this type of car?

NO....

[orly_andico]

something a bit nicer on the eyes

nawawala yung image...


Unfortunately it is a BMW. And with their two-wheeled creations costing as much as a Toyota Corolla... no hope here.

But if someone could make something like this, for three people (1+2 seating, kahit bench seat yung sa likod) and sell it for 100k or 150k i'm sure maraming bibili.

Maiba ng konti. Dibi there was this huge cottage industry sa Cebu before, for 100k you would get enough parts to build three Suzuki mini-vans? Napaisip ako dun, of course hindi siya sustainable kasi you are dependent on a steady supply of surplus Suzuki's pero it would be possible to build a car-like thing on top of a Suzuki minivan chassis right. Body on frame pa rin at maliit.

Pero nakasakay ako maraming beses sa Davao ng jeepney built on a Suzuki minivan chassis. Kasya ang 10 na tao sa likod! 5+5 seating. Yun nga lang can't imagine what's happening to the 660cc engine. Pero nagkalat mga ito sa Davao.

[OyiL]

oyil, dprox, Arhcitect rimski, orli, everyone... What do you think of these initial concepts... THis is what comes to my mind when you talk about cheapt PhUV design... pero practical

my idea is the same as yours.
i think we need market input rgearding the concepts we have now. para di tayo maligaw kakadesign. the public might be expecting something different

[orly_andico]

I think there are two efforts at work here:

1) the dreamers / car designers
2) the people who want to make something workable

For me you have to decide what do you want to do. Do you want to build the custom car you always wanted, or do you want to build something that people will benefit from? I don't think they are compatible.

Personally, I think what the market needs is a really cheap vehicle that's relatively safe and doesn't look ugly. If the Smart Car cost 150k it would be perfect for this role.

The large pickup/AUV type vehicle will always end up above 300k in cost. Thus putting it in competition with established brands.

Look at it this way: car manufacturers and dealers keep trying to lower the barriers to new car ownership. Example: Ford will actually let you drive home a Focus with 38000 cash out. That's total cash out, inclusive of comprehensive insurance, three-year LTO registration, and chattel mortgage. The catch? almost 20000 per month amortization for five years.

The point is, it's actually easier to buy a new car than a used car, because very few banks will allow you to finance buying a used car. And I submit, an indigenous Philippine vehicle will get lumped with the used cars.

If I can get an Isuzu Crosswind at good terms from the bank for 725k, why will I bother with an unknown locally-made car for 300k+ with a remanufactured engine? even more so when it turns out I cannot finance the 300k.

[orly_andico]

Dagdag pa pala...

with surplus Hyundai Grace vans going for 200k, having a new vehicle, containing remanufactured components at 300k+ becomes really a tough sell.

That's why I think it has to be below 100k price.

Sorry to rain on your parade guys, but at sub-100k prices there isn't a lot you can do.

[OyiL]

something a bit nicer on the eyes
Maiba ng konti. Dibi there was this huge cottage industry sa Cebu before, for 100k you would get enough parts to build three Suzuki mini-vans? Napaisip ako dun, of course hindi siya sustainable kasi you are dependent on a steady supply of surplus Suzuki's pero it would be possible to build a car-like thing on top of a Suzuki minivan chassis right. Body on frame pa rin at maliit.

Pero nakasakay ako maraming beses sa Davao ng jeepney built on a Suzuki minivan chassis. Kasya ang 10 na tao sa likod! 5+5 seating. Yun nga lang can't imagine what's happening to the 660cc engine. Pero nagkalat mga ito sa Davao.

oo nga ano. pwede bang i-classify as PhUV itong mga small vans na ito?

[OyiL]

I think there are two efforts at work here:

Look at it this way: car manufacturers and dealers keep trying to lower the barriers to new car ownership. Example: Ford will actually let you drive home a Focus with 38000 cash out. That's total cash out, inclusive of comprehensive insurance, three-year LTO registration, and chattel mortgage. The catch? almost 20000 per month amortization for five years.

The point is, it's actually easier to buy a new car than a used car, because very few banks will allow you to finance buying a used car. And I submit, an indigenous Philippine vehicle will get lumped with the used cars.

If I can get an Isuzu Crosswind at good terms from the bank for 725k, why will I bother with an unknown locally-made car for 300k+ with a remanufactured engine? even more so when it turns out I cannot finance the 300k.

ewan ko pero from the news, the PhUV is a brand-new vehicle. And a financing scheme has been approved. and its not rying to compete with the established brands but against the subic cars which is killing the philippine auto industry. that includes the big car manufacturers like ford and toyota. its not about building my dream hot rod but its about helping to keep the philippines be recognized in the global automotive industry. i just bought a car magazine, "World of Cars, Worldwide Car Catalogue", our country is listed, Pasajero Motors Corporation is there with a picture of their CityCab. I want more of that in there. That's the dream.

[orly_andico]

i meant the PHUV you guys want to build.

eh kung so gobyerno.. siguradong overpriced yan at maraming kurakot.

there was this initiative some time back to replace all jeepney engines with new direct-injection units from Isuzu at the cost of 100k per jeepney yata. approved na daw financing nun etc. etc. but i've never seen it.

[OyiL]

i meant the PHUV you guys want to build.

eh kung so gobyerno.. siguradong overpriced yan at maraming kurakot.

there was this initiative some time back to replace all jeepney engines with new direct-injection units from Isuzu at the cost of 100k per jeepney yata. approved na daw financing nun etc. etc. but i've never seen it.

The PhUV were building is not for ourselves.

correction: the financing scheme is currently being negotiated pa pala. sorry.

regarding dyan sa replacement, alam mo naman filipino - filipino time yan. gustong-gusto yung last two minutes tapos mag-3 point shot trying to beat the clock para dramatic ang dating.

[orly_andico]

Pwede. But a more likely outcome (since the Italian government supposedly loaned the money to our government to implement the direct-injection project) is that someone has already pocketed all the money and made fettucini.