Tsikot.ph PHUV Prototype

[jedi]

whoever is incharge about this project, kindly pm me

[architect]

*jedi,

I don't think there is actually anyone in charge at this time. Hopefully we can address the issue during the proposed EB.

[dprox]

Sorry the other night, guys. You were chatting with a ym dummy.
I can see you've pretty much mapped out the path for setting up a full-fledged auto corporation. Kudos. If ever, sali ako, pero specifically sa design aspect ang entrada ko. Pero cuidado dapat. We shouldn't really blow the bugle too early. We can be noisy, but among ourselves lang muna.
Kung tuloy yung EB natin sa Mar25, maybe we should deliberately focus on design issues, inputs, and programming. As architect said, product dev muna, kundi, it will take a several-day live-in planning conference to cover the gamut of issues.

For the benefit of budding & freelance designers, let me input a broad consideration re design in general: It's a process that balances functionality (aka "utility") and appearance (aka "styling").
Which of the two should have ultimate priority? Functionality of course -- your car has got to work for you first, before it makes you look good in it. You can have a great look, pero kung walang pakinabang, sayang lang.
Design does not begin on the drawing board. It begins out there in the field -- the land upon which you intend to roll your ride. Geography and Climate. Then you have to check the market where real people have real needs and wants and purchasing power for their rides. Market reasearch, Economics, Culture, Ergonomics. You then proceed to survey available technologies that will help satisfy those needs and wants. Physics, Engineering, Materials Science, Industrial Processes, etc.
Only then can you sit down and confidently translate all these factors into visuals and spatials. This is what it means to design "from outside-in to inside-out". Sinukatan mo muna yung mga gagamit so it can "tailor-fit" them.

But how about those who start with drawings agad? OK din naman 'yon -- if you have a spark of visual inspiration, why not sketch it, no? You can file it in your album of visual forms for future reference. But you might find it hard later on to squeeze in what the end users are really expecting. It's like buying a stylish and expensive suitcase for a friend before you even ask what they will be packing. Baka mamaya balikbayan box lang pala yung kailangan niya.

If you start with a drawing and later discover that some requirement will upset your initial sketches, the temptation will be to sacrifice the requirements in favor of your pet style feature. As it is in buildings, so it is with cars. The designer's impulse is to push his style at the expense of the end-user. It becomes designer-driven instead of consumer driven. Ingat din dapat tayo diyan. I've seen designers quarrelling to death over style issues, when in fact, the impasse could have been resolved earlier had they given precedence to requirements over styling.

ERGO, Design is the process of translating needs and wants into visual/spatial form, with the use of existing technologies.
Keeping your pencil away from the paper until all the data is in is a sign of designer maturity. To give you an idea, Ford designers have a full blown research group that continuously feeds the design departments. Once the data is in, the basic design emerges quite rapidly. For example, about the new Mustang, Doug Gaffka (with J.Mays) said: "We basically put this car together in about three days, and then we spent a year finessing. What I like to do is to put together a car quickly, understand where we are going, and then spend a year making it perfect."

A true designer is one who can validate every curve and surface in his/her work. And if you listen first before you sketch, you might just come up with something really new, because necessity is truly the mother of invention, and market inputs can be an incentive to design "out-of-the-box".

On the other hand, Filipinos are generally suckers for style and appearance. They will choose magara over mapakinabang, and will go into debt to get the magara, kahit mas konti ang benefits compared to cost. But social responsibility and prudence tells me that I shouldn't exploit that weakness just to get rich quick selling a bongga vehicle. Why entice the buyers into investing their cash into superfluities, when they can invest in more fundamental needs in life? I don't see the justice in being luxurious when Mang Pendong still has to padyak his family daily. Low cost and propriety are perhaps the only thing I will impose as a designer. But there's also the pragmatic reason that the market is bigger down there.

BTW, the exterior shell is meant to entice the visual sense. Let's not forget that auto design very much includes auto interiors, which address all five senses. People ride inside 'di ba? and only on rare occasions do the 'sabit'.

Having said all that, please allow me to formulate the design challenge to the (still unnamed) group:

• After factoring in the various requirements and expectations of the market,
• and using readily available technologies,
• to develop, sketch and model an enduring vehicle style that will
• appeal to the visual sophistication and automotive taste of Filipinos
• from all economic levels,
• and be affordable even to C and D level Filipinos.

Here's J.Mays* reflecting on his college years: "I was going to prove to myself that even though I hadn't done well in journalism school, I was going to be outstanding at designing cars. I just had it in my head that this was going to be the case. ... It had a lot less to do with brains than with perspiration."
"I guarantee you that a lot of design is just stick-to-itiveness -- being able to stay in there, to have the stamina, and, when everybody else gives up, to just keep going."

Mays is currently the Group Vice President of Design and Chief Creative Officer at Ford Motor Company (See www.designmuseum.org/design/j-mays and www.okcareertech.org/pio/champs/mays.htm).
Wanna know what he would say about our "open source" design approach? -ITUTULOY

[OTEP]

Re: function vs. styling.

There is such a thing as beauty coming from a product that was designed with no regard for styling whatsoever.

Take for example the iconic Land Rover Defender, or the Hummer H1.

The M16 Rifle and Colt M1911 also falls in this category of having beauty without needing to be styled.

[OyiL]

praktis!

[ehnriko]

Hi everyone!

Architect - do you have a roster of members in your group? like a directory or something? I could use the profile.

Anyway - I like J. Mays story... sounds familiar. By the way - I have no plans for revenge anymore. In fact - complete submission to God has brought me back into doing what I do best and where I am happy. I gave up so many things just to be doing this. (I need to write a whole book about that story) but nows not tha time for that.

Anyway - I have made the pickup and 16 seater alternatives or options based still on the same platform.

By the way - I have a website - it is a virtual design studio office front which I build for myself. http://ehnriko.bravehost.com - check it out for your reference.

If you can form a group of dynamic Guys... I am willing to work it out with you - I already have a team that can make any prototype you want. I can build one in less than 6 months provided all equipment and facilities are at hand.

I have a total of 7 manpower and we can help you from research to concept to safety engineering, SAE certifications, sources - China, and Taiwan... etc.

I just don't know the government requirements in the Philippines. But should you be interested - I can help you fast trak this DREAM! Just sedcure the Logistics and Funding. I speak this way - in case my sponsor here decide not to invest in PPhilippines. But should he give a go signal - then your group can work hand in hand.

Setting up the Manufacturing plant is not a small task - but - not to worry - with your brains and my little knowledge... it won't be too dangerous travelling this road.

email me for more confidential messages or YM me.

By the way, these concepts are of course exposed to the bad guys - but - I don't think they can get too much of it. If the maker of the concept is not in volved with the project - then - the outcome won't be good.

Karma is always at play. COPYRIGHT in the Philippines? - does it exist? If I don't show you what I got or what I can do - we won't be getting anywhere.

When you love what your doing - you wont have to work a day in your life. - I think this is a quote from Napoleon Hill.... I can't help but notice your passion in this subject. It's time to get thing moving. Ang tagal ko nang hinihintay na magkaron ng mga ganitong klaseng usapan.

for more than 38 years - I keep hearing my friends telling me - "Keep Dreaming!" Puro lang daw ako drawing. So I made a little career in the Industrial Security Business - I did good for 10 years... then shifted into Productivity consultations/ Management Engineering wihth an American company - I learned a lot - Great Experience - Pay is also GOOD! but not happy.

so I stopped! and chose nothing than something. It's another story... but I will leave at that for the meantime.

Lio - and Architect - why not create a Mangement Holdings Group and make it a legal entity already... secure license from the Government as a Car Manufacturing Company. I will be your secured connection as per access to technology in my own personal capacity.

Let's show the world that Pinifarina, Ferdinand Porsche and Henry Ford is just as ordinary as Juan Dela Cruz.

I am happy you don't have the big guys here.

I also don't have a good experience with them... particularly almazora.

By the way, I really don't mind exposing my designs... there's more where it came from. Let's just do something about it.

We are all aware of the need... and it is very real... let's all do something about it.

How's this for my letter of application?...

[architect]

Re: function vs. styling.

There is such a thing as beauty coming from a product that was designed with no regard for styling whatsoever.

Take for example the iconic Land Rover Defender, or the Hummer H1.

The M16 Rifle and Colt M1911 also falls in this category of having beauty without needing to be styled.

The products you mentioned are prime examples of Louis Sullivan's "form follows function" dictum. Although it can be argued that in all four cases, classical design principles such as symmetry and geometric ratios were followed, thereby defining a specific style.

Style is actually intrinsic to design as it is defined to be the resultant embodiment of a set of design primitives (vocabulary) as transformed by a set of rules (grammar). The end product thus will generally exhibit characteristics of said primitives and grammar, thereby defining a specific style.

As master artists (architects, painters, poets, songwriters) as wont to have well-defined vocabularies and grammars, their respective bodies of works are generally instantaneously recognizable by the style. An example would be Jose Mari Chan's songs - if you are familiar with his compositions, you will easily recognize them. Another would be Frank Lloyd Wright's prairie houses. And of course, e.e. cummings' poetry.

Because they share the same design primitives, the H1's successors, H2 and H3, are instantly recognizable as succeeding iterations of the line. Or in layman's terms, they follow the same style.

[architect]

Hi everyone!

Architect - do you have a roster of members in your group? like a directory or something? I could use the profile.

Unfortunately no. We are still trying to form the group. The problem is that among the interested guys, only Dprox and I are based in the Philippines. Maybe, Dprox and you can discuss the required expertise for us to get going. Then let us determine if we have these from among the members. If not, do we have access to such?

By the way - I have no plans for revenge anymore. In fact - complete submission to God has brought me back into doing what I do best and where I am happy.

Glad to hear that.

If you can form a group of dynamic Guys... I am willing to work it out with you - I already have a team that can make any prototype you want. I can build one in less than 6 months provided all equipment and facilities are at hand.

I have a total of 7 manpower and we can help you from research to concept to safety engineering, SAE certifications, sources - China, and Taiwan... etc.

Is your team here in the Philipppines or overseas? Are they Filipinos? While I am sure everyone appreciates the offer, we need to keep in mind our objective - to develop a prototype Filipino car (meaning designed and built in the Philippines by Filipinos) with as much local content as possible while achieving market viability for volume production.

I just don't know the government requirements in the Philippines. But should you be interested - I can help you fast trak this DREAM! Just sedcure the Logistics and Funding. I speak this way - in case my sponsor here decide not to invest in PPhilippines. But should he give a go signal - then your group can work hand in hand.

While funding is desirable, I am not sure if the group would be amenable to foreign funding as it somehow does not seem to be line with our objective. Dprox, OyiL, care to comment on this?

email me for more confidential messages or YM me.

Kindly PM me your email/YM info.

Lio - and Architect - why not create a Mangement Holdings Group and make it a legal entity already...

That is a thought. But it is not for just Lio and I to decide. It has to be a group decision, and if and when we reach that point, we would have to include the tsikot moderators, out of courtesy to them.

I am happy you don't have the big guys here.

We hope to keep it that way, too. Though it would be ironic if this thing pushes through and the resultant corporate entity becomes one of the big guys. Then what?

How's this for my letter of application?...

As far as I am concerned, you have a lot to contribute. And I do hope you will.

[dprox]

Hi Architect & design fanatics :clap:

If you watch RIDES on Discovery Channel & Pimp My Ride on MTV, you'll get a fair idea of the required trades for assembling a car. Here are the individual trade specializations I would include in a fabrication team. This is alternative to "production line" assembly, and is a way out of frustrations, and into the fulfillment of designer dreams.

• Underchassis Mechanic - chassis, uwheels, tires, brakes, suspension, undercoat, power train, steering
• Engine Mechanic - repair, overhaul, reconditioning of engine & tranny, instruments & gauges
• Tinsmith - metal body fabrication works
• Auto Electrician - wiring & fixtures
• Auto Aircon Technician - airconditioning, refrigeration
• Door Specialist - security locks & power windows
• Automotive Glass Installer - wind screens & window glazing
• Glass/Carbon Fiber Craftsman - fiber reinforced plastic parts, custom dashboard
• Automotive Finisher - painting, special artwork, decals
• Automotive Interior Fabricator/Detailer - insulation, seating, sidings & covers, baffles, interior finishes
• Safety Technician - airbag kits, bumper shocks, safety belts & harnesses
• Auto Accessories - video & audio, misc. amenities
• Parts Procurement Guy
• Quality Control Guy
• Road Tester & Registration Guy

These are the basic players of an Automaking "orchestra".
The composition is the motor vehicle.
The Designer is the composer,
and Fabricator is the conductor.

My own prototype is proof positive that a respectable ride can come out of a native garage.

Guys, let me know if there's anything I missed.

DPROX
www.disenyopilipino.ph

[ehnriko]

Additional statement:

Car Manufacturing; the Business and the Industry...

Looking at things in another light:

Anything can be sold, bought and made... and everyone can be in business.
But - the Car Industry and the Clothing Industry share something in common. They are both Fashion Driven.

The difference is: Clothing aparel is more into the cosmetic side of design - less in engineering. Unlike Cars - the body and paint and interior shares a similar degree of importance with the clothing. this is just a small part of the whole image packaging (more into the subliminal impression, like heritage, association, etc.).

but there is more to image than mere appearance, the whole package comprises of what the market do not see.

This is where Platform technology plays - what the customer doesn't see - they don't mind.

Catering the senses is important. contrary to what J. Mays is saying that Designers work to impress the investors... That's the basic idea! And if the investors are impressed - then money will be coming in. When money is in - then the engineers begin to play. Safety, Construction, Manufacturing, Industrial and Management engineering somes into play. The ratio of Designers to Engineers in every car company (ave.) is 1 to 16. But he has a point, he may have only placed the statement too short. when the investors see the product in the eyes of the general Market - like Ferdinand Porsche did when he designed the VW bug - then Ford will not lose its' sales against the Bug.

Volvo design school discourages people from getting into their courses if they don't see something in you. everybody wants to be a Car Designer - this is a fact. But - Real Car Design is more of a Team Play. 1 is in charge of the concept - according to the MARKET REQUIRMENT (gathered from surveys during motorshows and MVA - data). another in charge with Project Management, another with AUTOCAD Renderings, another in Structural, Safety, and the list goes on. Prototype comes after the approval of the final concept. The initial Drawing or Sketches that inspires the board is actually the seed of the concept that comes from GOD.

To add... there are about 3,000 desinger in the world and only half of them are employed. The Philippines can do this project why not? But - isn't it time to come up with a Good Design? Both in Form and Function and Engineering? Comfort and Safety?... Tactical approach will be Joining Motorsports events using the model so to build up company Heritage - this will add value to the after sales.

I am not selling myself as a Designer to your group to be...I am offering you options.

I know there's a huge pool of talents in the PHilippines - my team are composed of very ordinary people. They didn't even know that they were capable of building a prototype - inspite of our lack of technological support and experience. But I believed that this is possible - I have 1 carpenter, 2 welders, 1 electrician, 1 Architect and 1 waiter working in my team. Nobody comes from Pinifarina Studio. We were able to make the prototype exterior shell in two months... currently busy with the interior skins and doors... but - there is lesser work here already. Each part is numbered and documented so Industrial Engineers will have no problem making the Manufacturing PLan.

I have read so much book about this... seen aall the sites... heard all the stories... I came to the point of throwing all these books written by foreign authors with advices that doesn't work for Pinoys... I decided to go back to what matters most. this is very Uncommon to most men but I would like to campaign that we should have this in all we do. including the pursuit of the dream - to build the Filipino Car. ... COMMON SENSE.

We have everything in the Philippines... actually - we can also make our engine. But - like a Baby - we should learn to run slower before we sprint faster. I use the words 'run slower" because we have been walking for a long time already - in circles. please, you all know enough. Just make things Happen.

I don't intend to make a Rotary or Jaycees speech here - but I hope you don't mind and I hope I make sense to you.

Thanks!

By the way, Designers are very sensitive people... (why am I saying this?)