MVPMAP's PhUV feedback thread

[EVO-V]

Guys,

MESSAGE RE MVPMAP PHUV (BOTH POSITIVE & NEGATIVE) HAS ALREADY BEEN SENT TO MVPMAP LOUD AND CLEAR.

There is simply no reason to sound like a broken record. Get on with your lives. If you don't have any, well, think of something. FYI, trying to be a Simon Cowell-wannabe with lame, amateurish comments is not a life.

The ongoing comments are ranging from manufacturing and design flaws to a critique of its overall commercial viability and business sensibility.

Perhaps the redundancy of certain statements only emphasize the undeniable urge to review this project with more technical sobriety.

Even if it taps on the emotive aspect of how baduy, reprehensible, or even from having seen something more appealing come out of a chancre sore, I don't think its right to tell people not to say what they think.

[architect]

Deleted.

EVO-V's flame-baiting remark was deleted by dprox, so response was rendered unncessary.

[architect]

Also you need to know the difference between incessant bashing and proving a point.

The guy subscribed to skyscrapercity forum recently just to bash the MVPMAP PhUV. He even bragged that his (foreign?) boss gave him front seat tickets. As if there were tickets. What was his objective?

He has been informed several times now that he has gotten his message across. Why continue the bashing?

Why does he insists, despite being cautioned, on posting his bashing in the Tsikot PhUV thread also, which is different from this thread? He is fully aware the Tsikot PhUV is altogether a different prototype from the MVPMAP's? So what is his objective in trying to get maximum exposure?

He inferred from previous posts he was based in Thailand working for a large manufacturer. Guess what? The IP addresses used for those posts were from a Philippine ISP.

There is more than meets the eye here that you, in your ignorance, fail to see.

[OyiL]

he works for toyota, siguro.

[tsikot]

guys,

i am afraid that this thread is fast degenerating to a flaming, bashing and 'trolling' thread.

i believe that the valuable feedback about the MVPMAP PhUV have already been given and nothing more (and new) can be added. the same all defects, insufficiencies and inadequacies of the MVPMAP prototype have been brought to light, posted and reposted, ad nauseum.

the MVPMAP PhUV has already been bashed to death, but the very little 'saving graces' have also been recognized and appreciated. I also know for a fact that the MVPMAP people have already been provided with these feedback and inputs. hopefully all the valuable comments, suggestions, recommendations even criticisms will be put to good use for them to improve on their product.

so enough already. nobody wants tsikot.com to be the venue for a never-ending 'bashing' for an entity that is not entirely tsikot's. tsikot.com, in my honest opinion, has already provided the platform for the public to freely give their reactions and feedback on the MVPMAP's PhUV.

what we will not allow, however, is for this same platform to be the source of divisiveness, 'bad' vibes, even online battles among members.

it is for these reasons, that we have to decisively close this thread soon. a short period (24 hours)of time will be given to all thread posters to give their last say and this thread will be locked.

don't worry, this thread will not be archived. it will always be here, maybe even sticked, for everybody to see, read and benefit from the many useful and insightful posts there.

[EVO-V]

DON'T BE STUPID. I never demanded you guys to stop. All I said is the comments have been sent to MVPMAP. In fact, I was just on the phone talking with them.

And before you start flaming people, kindly try to increase your comprehension level. There is a whole lot of difference between a SMART-ASS and being simply an ASS.

Well you shouldn't sound like you're here as an applicant for overlord of thinking and free speech.

So let's not get too touchy on something you have NO right to dictate.

You almost like you've got a personal or even a commercial interest with MVMAP or the PhUV.

Read the posts prior, and take a look at the content. The only thing redundant about it is that it was a negative criticism of the PhUV. Everything after that is a new level of analysis.

Recommending the implementation of newer design tools and techniques, maybe a little application of Finite Element Analysis, and a dash of commonsense knowing how the human eye has a natural distaste for geometric shapes.

Supposing I told you that I work extensively with engineers involved in the automotive industry, both local and foreign, would that add more validity to my observations?

What if I told you I'm reasonably aware of automotive manufacturing processes and hence the reason why I lament the entire approach the makers of the PhUV had taken? Would that make my observations and recommendations more worthy of your comprehension?

What if I told you that I've been personally involved in putting together engineering projects, perhaps not as complex as that of building an entire car, but complicated enough to be aware of the value of vision, design philosophy, process familiarity, and market awareness? Would it buy more space in your tome of authoritative knowledge?

It appears that there is an inherent incapacity to accommodate alternative observations because you're sick of watching American Idol or Britain's got Talent being too critical of talentless individuals.

Too bad, we have better things to do with our time.

You apparently aren't reading the posts. You're too busy hunting down IP addresses to know if your agents are being kept in line. Don't waste your time, I'm not the same adversary claiming to work for this or that company.

Next time leave your emotional baggages at the login page.

There is a fundamental difference between someone who thinks he knows what he's talking about, and one that pretends that he can tell people what to think. Don't go locking up doors to hide nothing behind them.

It is a shame that this kind of forum intellectual(?) hooliganism is a cause for terminating what would have otherwise become a more in depth technical discussion, just because someone decides that he can't take any more.

Increase your comprehension level

You're unimpressive at best.

[EVO-V]

double post

[Bogeyman]

You actually save more time and money investing in the right things than trying to save money for the wrong reasons using the wrong processes.

I couldn't agree more. It's hardly cost-efficient to take up precious time and resources just to repair the damage caused by ill judgement.

If it is true that the comments have already reached MVPMAP, and they are willing to take those comments into consideration, then it's good. True, it's hard to come up with something right on the first try, but we don't exactly have the luxury of time if we are to go head-to-head with the rest of the world in the automotive scene.

All in all, the initiative itself is laudable, and there's always room for improvement, even for the automotive giants. Beyond the criticisms, I hope that MVPMAP will appreciate the fact that a lot of people here care enough to make this endeavor a success. If this takes off the right way, it will be to the whole country's credit, not just a few.

[mazdamazda]

Guys,

MESSAGE RE MVPMAP PHUV (BOTH POSITIVE & NEGATIVE) HAS ALREADY BEEN SENT TO MVPMAP LOUD AND CLEAR.

There is simply no reason to sound like a broken record. Get on with your lives. If you don't have any, well, think of something. FYI, trying to be a Simon Cowell-wannabe with lame, amateurish comments is not a life.

I think that you are taking this way too seriously for your own good. Your comment already borders on being a personal attack against other members.

For some people it doesn't matter if those comments will be sent to the MVPMAP or not.

EVO already made a good rebuttal regarding this comment and I second it.

[architect]

Well you shouldn't sound like you're here as an applicant for overlord of thinking and free speech.

I never dictated upon anyone. Kindly read my comments again and tell me where I demanded anyone of anything.

So let's not get too touchy on something you have NO right to dictate.

Please read my comments again. Maybe, just maybe, this time, you will be able to understand and grasp the entire situation. I never dictated anything.

You almost like you've got a personal or even a commercial interest with MVMAP or the PhUV.

Personal - yes. I want to see it succeed.
Commercial - nope.

Read the posts prior, and take a look at the content. The only thing redundant about it is that it was a negative criticism of the PhUV. Everything after that is a new level of analysis.

Really? Have you read the Tsikot.ph PhUV thread?

Recommending the implementation of newer design tools and techniques, maybe a little application of Finite Element Analysis, and a dash of commonsense knowing how the human eye has a natural distaste for geometric shapes.

Hein's photos were basically more of the same. The lack of quality has been pointed out in so many ways that it has become redundant. Please review the entire thread.

Supposing I told you that I work extensively with engineers involved in the automotive industry, both local and foreign, would that add more validity to my observations?

Nope. Because we are discussing Hein's incessant bashing of the MVPMAP PhUV. Whatever technical aspects that are involved are fundamental issues that do not require in-depth engineering expertise.

What if I told you I'm reasonably aware of automotive manufacturing processes and hence the reason why I lament the entire approach the makers of the PhUV had taken? Would that make my observations and recommendations more worthy of your comprehension?

Our present discussion has nothing to do with your lament. Basically the issue you brought forward is your allegation that I demanded the bashing to stop, which I never did. I only reiterated that the message has been received by MVPMAP.

What if I told you that I've been personally involved in putting together engineering projects, perhaps not as complex as that of building an entire car, but complicated enough to be aware of the value of vision, design philosophy, process familiarity, and market awareness? Would it buy more space in your tome of authoritative knowledge?

Why would you want to buy space in my so-called tome of authoritative knowledge? I thought you considered me a dictator. Yet you want to pay me so you can kowtow to me?

It appears that there is an inherent incapacity to accommodate alternative observations because you're sick of watching American Idol or Britain's got Talent being too critical of talentless individuals.

I never said I was sick of AI. Perhaps you would like to show me my specific post in which I said or even inferred that I was sick of watching AI.

Truth is I admire Simon Cowell for his witty remarks. But I am sick of the lame attempts of wannabes trying to impress others with their ridiculous compositions.

This is exactly my point. You are too quick to form ridiculous and irresponsible conclusions from the posts of other people. I never dictated you guys. I never said I am sick of AI. Yet here you are accusing me of those things.

Too bad, we have better things to do with our time.

And yet, here you are, answering my post.

You apparently aren't reading the posts. You're too busy hunting down IP addresses to know if your agents are being kept in line.

Again you are assuming too much. What makes you think I was the one who hunted down the IP addy? Don't forget I am not the tsikot PhUV core group. There are quite a number of us in this forum.

Don't waste your time, I'm not the same adversary claiming to work for this or that company.

Rest assured I won't.

Next time leave your emotional baggages at the login page.

Perhaps you might want to practice what you preach.

There is a fundamental difference between someone who thinks he knows what he's talking about, and one that pretends that he can tell people what to think.

Kindly show me any post of mine where I told you how to think. And frankly speaking if you really know the entire situation about the MVPMAP PhUV, I am quite positive you will change your attitude.

Don't go locking up doors to hide nothing behind them.

Am not sure I follow your attempted figure of speech. But if I'd hazard a guess, you are very well mistaken. I am not a moderator of this forum and I have no more power than you do. I can only edit my own posts.

Perhaps you ought to ponder on why those who are in a position to know chose to support my stand on this matter.

It is a shame that this kind of forum intellectual(?) hooliganism is a cause for terminating what would have otherwise become a more in depth technical discussion, just because someone decides that he can't take any more.

Well, I didn't do the bashing. Secondly, we actually have other forums for in-depth technical discussions sans the hooliganism that you despise. Based on what you have presented as your expertise, I am more than confident that you qualify. But more importantly, where you stand vis-a-vis the PhUV project and how you will contribute will determine if the moderators will issue an invite. FYI, again I am not a moderator. I am merely a member.

Thirdly, I don't have the power to lock the thread. The moderator decided that. If you are not happy with his decision, perhaps you can lobby him directly.

You're unimpressive at best.

I'm glad you said that. I wasn't trying to impress anyone. I was merely trying to help the PhUV project. And EVO-V, my quarrel is not with you.

Rather it is with the senseless bashing of the MVPMAP PhUV project. Don't you guys realize the power of the Internet? If the press picks up the bashing, as it has done so with the previous discussions, it would be extremely detrimental to both the MVPMAP PhUV project and to the reputation of tsikot.com. Do you really want that to happen?

Are you aware the MVPMAP PhUV project, with all its flaws, is a serious attempt at saving the more than 50,000 jobs in the industry? Given the context, I am sure you will become more wary of bashing it unnecessarily.

Are you aware the project itself does not have the full support of all the members of MVPMAP? Yet the main proponents chose to go ahead, spending their own time and money, to make the prototype. Of course, we all know what happened.

But if you realize that the main proponents' businesses do not need the MVPMAP PhUV to survive (in fact, theirs are thriving), then you will realize that they are doing for the industry, that they are doing it for the 50,000 odd families.

I agree the prototype was a disaster. For God's sake, everybody does. But that is no reason to beat them up. Do you beat up your brother just because he fell down? On the contrary, you help him up. Will the endless bashing help the MVPMAP? They already said in so many words, they heard us. That is why they want to meet with us. Why continue the bashing then?

By egging hein on, you unwittingly become a case of crab mentality at its worst. Unwittingly because I'd rather give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you would like to contribute to the PhUV project. It really is your call.

[architect]

EVO already made a good rebuttal regarding this comment and I second it.

A good rebuttal with a flame-baiting remark? Before you pass judgment, perhaps you ought to review the original posts that were since edited by dprox.

Don't be too quick to be judgmental. Both Tsikot and Dprox saw and read the flame-baiting remark that was since edited. Consult them first before you make your conclusions.

Surprised it didn't occur to you that they both saw my posts earlier than you and neither deemed it necessary to issue an infraction.

[architect]

*EVO-V,

Again I went through the entire thread and I couldn't even find a prior post where I requested you guys to stop the bashing. I am curious then as to why you would call me a dictator? Is it possible you mistook me for someone else?

[drey]

I hope that when this thread is closed. People wont start bashing the Tsikot PhUV discussion. Lets put teamwork in this matter and not just a reader of the topic.

Honestly speaking and with no script attached, I thank hein for posting his recommendations and suggestions. Its just the way he posts make me feel terrified... hehehe...

[architect]

Well, I hope tsikot will reconsider, too. Personally am against censorship per se. But that is not my call to make.

[architect]

I couldn't agree more. It's hardly cost-efficient to take up precious time and resources just to repair the damage caused by ill judgement.

If it is true that the comments have already reached MVPMAP, and they are willing to take those comments into consideration, then it's good. True, it's hard to come up with something right on the first try, but we don't exactly have the luxury of time if we are to go head-to-head with the rest of the world in the automotive scene.

All in all, the initiative itself is laudable, and there's always room for improvement, even for the automotive giants. Beyond the criticisms, I hope that MVPMAP will appreciate the fact that a lot of people here care enough to make this endeavor a success. If this takes off the right way, it will be to the whole country's credit, not just a few.

Yes, MVPMAP has received the comments. In fact, some of their members signed up to check the posts. So I am sure they have read all the comments and suggestions. The important thing is that they appear open and receptive and has in fact requested for a meeting with the tsikot PhUV core group.

[erickdpogi]

Sir Hein and I may not be related but we did share the same sentiment, i thank him for providing the high resolution pictures as for people to see the ups (if there was) and downs of the present PHuV. As for the vehicle itself, i strongly agree that designers hit the drawing board again, time consuming? yes, but improvements will be seen in the future no doubt.

If they fail to take actions to this, then the public will definitely decide on its fate, successful or not.

Rushing things will only delay the progress, need not say more.

As for sir Architect, let's just respect each and everyone's opinions and suggestions on the topic at hand, we may not be on the same side, but it's also a good thing that somebody contradicts the main sentiment. Kudos to you!

As for future thread posters, I strongly suggest that we follow the moderators rules and regulations. A simple exchange of thought with opposing views leads to mini-debates and bait-flaming at worst.

[architect]

*EVO-V

You got PM. Thanks.

[hein]

ON SAFETY ISSUES NAMAN........

What POOR ENGINEERING means to you and me. Everything may look fine on the outside but....

First, think of a LOVED ONE (a parent, sibling, spouse or kid) before you watch the video of this Utility vehicle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7Ts94rjr4M

This Chinese-made CUV flunked a recent EU crash test. Based on the test instruments, the occupants inside were expected to DIE in this 50kph (normal EDSA speed) staged accident. The driver's legs would be AMPUTATED by the intruding footwell.

MVPMAP people, the PHUV I saw at the launch did not have CRUMPLE ZONES, AIRBAGS, COLLAPSIBLE STEERING COLUMN. PADDED WHEEL and CUSHIONED DASHBOARD.

If brought to the same test, your vehicle most likely FAIL too.

[drey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7Ts94rjr4M

grabe to'!... tsk tsk tsk...

[hein]

In contrast, a WELL-ENGINEERED UV will yield a different result.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8vJf4np3AU

If the passengers wore their seatbelts, they are expected will walk out of this accident without any injuries.


To the MVPMAP, think about the SAFETY of your buyers.

The PHUV users may find out too late that "LOW QUALITY COMES AT A HEAVY PRICE"