MVPMAP's PhUV feedback thread

[dprox]

People, let's move on.

I think we've pointed out the defects of the PhUV to death - many times over.
Viewers are now unanimous that we've sufficiently analyzed the socio-economics and geopolitics of it. From EDSA, Marikina, Makati, umabot pa tayo sa Thailand, Australia, New Zealand, UK, at Sweden.

In the heat of the debate, ang daming newbie na nagregister (pansin niyo ba?) -- a clue that MVPMAP people ARE reading this thread. Some have even candidly admitted their involvement with the MVPMAP project. If there's any clear confirmation that they've totally gotten the point, it's this:

MVPMAP has already sent feelers to Tsikot PhUV Design & Research Forum, asking for a meeting next week, so it's time to switch from attack mode to recommendation mode.

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT. ERGO, from now on ~

(1) Travel Ban. :plane: Any and all junkets to foreign countries will be deleted or moved to an appropriate thread. Let's stay in the Philippines, and focus on the MVPMAP PhUV already!

(2) Strike 3, you're out! Redundant critiques and fotos posted by the same person will from hereon likewise disappear if these cannot be moved elsewhere. If one has posted it twice before, the point would have been made, so try not to post it a third time. A simple reference to the post # or URL will do.

(3) One-on-Ones to PM. :seesaw: If you wish to debate extensively with a particular person, take it to PM, and Bcc any Tsikot moderator that you like, so he/she can referee.

Next inning na. Play ball!

[ogpro]

MVPMAP has already sent feelers to Tsikot PhUV Design & Research Forum, asking for a meeting next week, so it's time to switch from attack mode to recommendation mode.

YEY!!!!! We're rooting for you guys!

[hein]

MVPMAP has already sent feelers to Tsikot PhUV Design & Research Forum, asking for a meeting next week, so it's time to switch from attack mode to recommendation mode.

I recommend that MVPMAP re-design this part where the door latch is attached the pillar of the car. My japanese co-workers saw this and said "HOW COULD ANYONE DO IT THIS WAY?!"



POOR PHUV ENGINEERING DESIGN is to be faulted here. The assemblers found out too late that the door mechanism was almost 1 cm. too distant from the latch. Therefore, the doors couldn't close.

SOLUTION: Oh, just get a small piece of metal and just weld on an extension. Plus, the SLOPPY weld looks like the CORN and CALLUSES on my uncle's foot.

NEW PROBLEM: The door latch endures pressures of almost 100 psi. Equal to 2 cavans of rice sitting on your nose! How long before metal fatigue sets in?

[hein]

Plus.....

The window riser mechanism was clunky and did not offer a feel of quality. CHANGE that.

Plus the window did not close completely leaving a 2mm gap between the frame and the glass. Moderate rainfall can cause FLOODING inside the cabin.

[hein]

Plus.....


Don't use naman CHEAP SLIDING WINDOWS for the passenger doors. They not only open HALFWAY, they also show that MVPMAP is scrimping too much. Remember, the SUBIC vehicles have POWER WINDOWS!

NOTE: The pretty girl does not come with the PHUV.

[ogpro]

Plus.....


Don't use naman CHEAP SLIDING WINDOWS for the passenger doors. They not only open HALFWAY, they also show that MVPMAP is scrimping too much. Remember, the SUBIC vehicles have POWER WINDOWS!

NOTE: The pretty girl does not come with the PHUV.

Kala ko sabihin mo cheap din yung girl, magaaway na tayo nyan hehheeh

[hein]

Plus....


MVPMAP, use naman CURVED windshield. Even cars in the 1950's had this feature. And it will improve the NOT-SO-PRETTY look of the PHUV. And get rid of those LONGGONISA sized gaskets. Use the newer hidden gaskets.

[hein]

Plus....



MVPMAP, you REALLY REALLY have to IMPROVE the quality of your workmanship. Plus, the fact that you use FLATHEAD screws already shows the people in the industry that you are not serious about PRODUCTIVITY. They use Philips screwheads for a good reason.

[BlueBimmer]

makipost nga dto...

100% agree ako kay heins...grabe pala quality nitong phuv...grabe low quality

[DM aka Bebe]

Hi guys. Noobs here. Don't like to give negative comments. So will give you interesting trivia na lang para ma-inspire kayo in coming out with cute names for the PhUV.

In 1931 when DAT Motors decided to branch out from their trucks and build a smaller car, Rokura Aoyama, one of the three original partners who started the Kwaishinsha Motorcar Works (the precursor of DAT), hired the German consultants Heinrich and Rudolf to come up with a name. Legend has it that the Germans produced the name immediately during the first meeting:

Rudolf: How son you need the name?
Aoyama: We need it today.
Heinrich: Su son?
Aoyama: Hayt. Now is good.
Rudolf: Dat son?
Aoyama: Perfect!
So it came to be the first small car of DAT was named Datson, which also means Son of DAT. Later, in 1933, after Nissan took control of DAT Motors, the last syllable of Datson was changed to Sun.
Believe it or not!

[EVO-V]

This is appalling, but not for anything else about quality assurance...

It is appalling because the approach in constructing this vehicle came with a very short-term outlook which is indicated the means of constructing this vehicle.

It was designed to be built like a glorified jeepney and hence it looks feels and behaves like one. It was designed with very minimal investment in tooling in mind.

The way the components are designed appear to be made using the easiest means, not necessarily the most efficient and structurally sound methods.

The technology and manufacturing techniques to perform proper tool and die development has been around for so long.

Roberts Radiators (RAIPMC) has been doing a lot of metal stamping work for numerous automotive components, roofs, panels, etc..

There is no excuse why they (the MPAV) can't utilize all the available resources they have to invest in tool design and manufacturing technology. But the fact that the members themselves have their respective business concerns makes such commitments very difficult to provide.

There is an obvious lack of coordination and real effort among the engineers who involved themselves in building a monstrosity like this.

Its steel panel design mentality, nothing appears to have been done with the notion that you can use non-linear parts or utilize curves to achieve weight savings and rigidity.

In all honesty, it would be easier to scrap this design and do things from scratch. A platform that is inherently flawed is inherently flawed.

What is going to happen is that this vehicle will escalate in costs due to patchwork re-engineering, and also because of liability due to obviously poor safety designs.

My recommendation is to standardize first the manufacturing techniques required to make this vehicle. Don't skimp on the short term as it will kill the program if the vehicle isn't a commercial success or the government is unwilling to subsidize it. The technology to be used must somewhat be more up to date than what they are using right now.

Secondly, the design must be based on these established manufacturing techniques, design with a principle vision, don't design just for the sake of function. A holistic vision of this project must include the notion that it will be competing for the hard-earned peso in a market with vehicles far more advanced.

Thirdly, there is no shame looking for a existing toolings for an older but functional vehicle to use as a platform. This will accelerate development and reduce costs. Modify and improve as we go along.

If the MVPMAP is serious about this project, it would be best they invest in tooling and design technology.

That of course requires long term commitments, which our government will need to support but can't because of its own lack of vision and perpetual competing political priorities.

[jpdm]

My recommendation is to standardize first the manufacturing techniques required to make this vehicle. Don't skimp on the short term as it will kill the program if the vehicle isn't a commercial success or the government is unwilling to subsidize it. The technology to be used must somewhat be more up to date than what they are using right now.

If the MVPMAP is serious about this project, it would be best they invest in tooling and design technology.

That of course requires long term commitments, which our government will need to support but can't because of its own lack of vision and perpetual competing political priorities.

Amen to these recommendations. These things are what we need especially if we are serious of building a strong motor industry thru the PHUV and an industrialized economy.

The government has been spending alot of blood money on borloloy things such as on election and official junkets, but not on capital goods needed by local industries.

When South Korea decided to industrialized, the government borrowed heavily from multilateral institutions (IMF-WB etc.)to build their industry thru privately owned companies---industry champions---Samsung on electronics and semiconductors, Daewoo on heavy machinery, construction and engineering, cars, Hanjin on shipbuilding and Hyundai on heavy machinery, automotive, shipbuilding.

We are slowly doing it in shipbuilding with govet incentives (in Cebu, Aboitiz and Tsuneishi). Bakit hindi sa PHUV?

[mazdamazda]

The government has been spending alot of blood money on borloloy things such as on election and official junkets, but not on capital goods needed by local industries.

I don't think that it is logical to use government funds to fund a non-critical private company's assets. This is only applicable for critical industries such as power generation but not for the car industry.

When South Korea decided to industrialized, the government borrowed heavily from multilateral institutions (IMF-WB etc.)to build their industry thru privately owned companies---industry champions---Samsung on electronics and semiconductors, Daewoo on heavy machinery, construction and engineering, cars, Hanjin on shipbuilding and Hyundai on heavy machinery, automotive, shipbuilding.

Are you 100% sure about this? Using IMF-WB money to fund a private company? As far as I know, these chaebols took out private loans but not through the government.

We are slowly doing it in shipbuilding with govet incentives (in Cebu, Aboitiz and Tsuneishi). Bakit hindi sa PHUV?

Using this analogy, yes... this is already being done here. Right at Santa Rosa, Laguna where they are producing Ford & Mazda vehicles for export. To note that the "local" shipbuilding industry is not native to the Philippines but is "imported" from and funded by Japan, Korea & China.

[hein]

Plus....


RECO 1: Redesign the FRONT to match the BOXY rear. Or VICE-VERSA. The PHUV in its present form looks like a CRV-ish anterior mated to LAND ROVER DEFENDER back end. Giving this vehicle a FRANKENSTEIN monster look.

RECO 2: Get rid of the CHICKEN FENCE grill. This is the part of the car where people will look at first and it gives a very bad first impression. Security-wise, the weak grill is an easy entry point for thieves to disable the batteries and override the alarms.

RECO 3: Invest in a better EMBLEM. The MVPMAP logo looks like its taken from the bottom part of a PRINGLE's can and painted on.

RECO 4: Take out the tacky chin SPOILER. You can save money on this by discarding it.

RECO 5: When you redesign the front, make sure the LIGHTS fit precisely. Any SELF-RESPECTING car company knows that. The huge gaps in the present PHUV make the lights look like an afterthought.

[hein]

Plus....


RECO: Use thicker, better seats. The headrests seem to be thicker than the THIN FLIMSY seats!

Remember, a lot of the Subic PAJEROS have thick HIGH QUALITY sporty seats.

[hein]

The PLUSHY sport seats of your friendly SUVIC PAJERO

[erickdpogi]

It is a noble move for MVPMAP to present us with a unique, one of a kind vehicle targeted to be the next pinoy original after the jeepney. But then again, albeit the construction, the materials and labor, it doesn't deviate much from a well constructed puj, I'd say i'll still go for the old timer, even just this once.

And a few points i'd like to raise:

Exterior.

From the looks of it, You might mistake it from afar for APCs (Armored Personnel Carriers) used by the AFP less the hatch from the roof for higher ground access and the introduction of windows and MPV-esque doors. The attempt to make it appear like your AUV next door vehicle is distressful. The front looks really horrible. It appears as though the vehicle being presented now is the proto-type model coming from a panzer tank. The emblems tell you that it's ashamed of itself by being small despite the fact that it should be the one shouting the vehicle's glory. The front grill looks as if it was taken from mang caloy's junk shop (no offense). the cost reduction may be the reason for making the vehicle like this, but if given the oppurtunity, i'll buy a chinese brand (Chery anyone?). The front even ressembles those coming from MAC trucks in the US minus the small fog lamps and corner turning lamps.


Interior.

I'd say the build quality will tell the world we're still third world country (if there was a fourth world, count this one in.). We recieve alot of reviews about new vehicles being presented everyday, and interior is very important for ride comfort and pleasure from everyday travel. If the exterior has too much to tell the world about us, the interior should have been given more justice. Yet, The interior matches the exterior build.

explanation need not lengthen.


Safety.

If safety is really a concern then just pray for those souls inside this cube of a vehicle. It's a running coffin.


Aerodynamics.

As the vehicle suggests it, its not meant to cruise along at high speeds nor was it intended in the first place. People Carrier? yes, but the Oh-so-boxy feel of the exterior will give everyone a 50s nostalgia feel, it's 2007 come on. Seeing one on the road in the future will remind me of those huge PUJs cruising along the outskirts of Cavite.


I won't argue with the costs of maintenance, but hey, even my aunt's hand built, machine shop forged, filipino built AUV copycat will even pass better than this. In my opinion, the folks behind the concept should have redirected their minds to improving the old timer, PUJs. Its a tried and tested formula for Juan Dela Cruz who enjoy commuting rather than facing off with the rising cost of fuel and maintenance of vehicles. It's a shame that Filipino Ingenuity is compensated for cost reductions, heck, even PUJs have booming sound setups these days. It's an alternative, but is it good? Maybe not. It is a honest to goodness attempt by fellow patriots who want too seek a new alternative for us. It is a filipino first? yes, but will it be another filipino garbage? hopefully not.

[safeorigin]

*hein: CRV-ish??? aren't those one of your premeire products? :huh:

[erickdpogi]

*safeorigin, sir, i think it's a cross between a jap SUV and a American truck (the MAC). hehehe

[safeorigin]

i am fully aware of that but what i was refering to is how he used CRV as his adjective to describe the mvpmap phuv. coincidently, he also works for honda(i think) and he is also the cost controll guy.

::OT:: *hein: why is it that the CRV looks that way? hope you talk it over with your design team as well if you expect to maintain the WOW factor of your brand.