MVPMAP's PhUV feedback thread

[niky]

I'm late to this party... I went over and viewed the vehicle yesterday morning before Market Market opened. Apologies to dprox and jedi, I was not able to make it the other night, and I was trying (in vain) to reach you guys.

Anyway, here's my long and exhaustive comments:

[size=4]Technical Analysis[/size]

Much of what we have been talking about in the PhUV thread is seen here, to some extent, and some isn't. Now, let's start with what is:

As expected, the MVPMAP is based on the good old ladder-frame design, as it's something our boys know how to do, and they're good at it.



As such, it's sure to be solid and dependable. The front axle construction and crude suspension design don't bode well for ride control, handling or ride comfort, but then, that's not the point of the PhUV, and most of us used to AUVs and Jeepneys will feel right at home.

I dislike the idea of front drums, but there's really no reason to doubt that they'll actually work.

The engine is another matter. Why are we buying Foton? Isn't there a supply of Korean or Japanese 4D56s, or maybe even cheap Isuzu engines we could get? It's also strange that they predict prices between 350k to 450k, where a Foton vehicle equipped with the same engine retails for around 450 - 550k. So the question is... how much is that engine?

[size=4]Design Analysis[/size]

The interior, as some have stated, is old fashioned, but adequate in some ways... but the preponderance of exposed screws is not encouraging. It would not significantly bring up the costs if those screws were to be repositioned out of sight, would it? The net-type headrests are a big no. They add to the generally outdated feel of the cabin. Switching to a more conventional plush type headrest would improve the cabin ambience a bit.



There are quite a number of things wrong here, and some right things. Sorry if I duplicate any previous comments.

A.1 - Hood and windshield. While it's true that repeating accurate curves (Jeepneys don't count, there is no need to ensure uniformity on open-fender designs) are difficult for local manufacturers, small curves between joints are entirely possible, and easy to roll and weld in. This should be done between the base of the windshied and the body, and the top of the windshield and the roof.

The accent lines don't give the hood shape. They merely accentuate its flatness. Remove. The end of the hood can be moved further back, or at least some curve could be added at the hinges to blend it in with the fenders.

The flat windshield is a good way to save costs (the Dacia Logan does the same thing), but more thought has to go into framing it. A windshield from an Adventure or a Tamaraw supplier would fit, wouldn't it?

A.2 Despite some foibles, I like the headlight design, as a lot of thought seems to have gone into it. This is what I mean about using off-the-shelf parts in creative ways. Unfortunately, the grille design isn't as inspired. The cutline between the grille and the headlight does not match the lines beside it, and the grille itself is filled with the cheapest grade of chicken wire available. A simpler grille with locally available circular screen or a finer mesh would have been even better.

The MVPMAP badge should never have been placed there. It is very simple to make a die for a reasonably good looking badge. It'll cost you a bit for the die, but the badges afterwards won't cost much money (stamped steel or plastic only). If they weren't willing to do it right, they shouldn't have put it at all.

A.3 Beautiful touch... but why? This isn't a sportscar, so it doesn't need the aero. The money that went into this would be better spent on a prettier badge.

A.4 The wheel wells make the square body less boring, so I say: let them stay. My beef is with the shape of the wheel wells themselves, as they flare out at the edges, which makes the wheels look smaller. Have them come straight down after the centerline of the hub, for a more cohesive look.

Also, lose the chrome hubcaps. The wheels behind those caps looked perfectly good... no reason to hide them with cheap crap from Concorde. (no offense to Concorde, I shop there often... hehehe)

A.5 Character line looks out of place, and the fender is a very awkward part. By redesigning the headlight housings (easy, since they're plastic or fiberglass), they could make easier to shape fenders.

A.6 Here's an example of false economy. By using external instead of internal hinges, they've created the problem of doors which cannot be placed flush against each other. Can you imagine how difficult it is to fit the doors like this? By using internal swing-hinges on the second door, you could allow for more variance in production models (pillars which don't line up exactly between the doors) which you could adjust to by simply adjusting the hinges.

And by having the B-pillar not show up on the outside, they can simplify its design, saving even more money.

And the windows are too deep. That's extra cost and materials that could go somewhere else... as others have shown, you can have straight windows that go into relatively flat doors close to the edges of the body. If you need more space for window channels, thicken the doors on the inside. Yes, even ANFRA can do that better.

A.7 The shutline of the rear door looks like an afterthought. It should more closely mate the rear fender guard, or they should just notch the fender guard to fit it... another example of adjusting to chassis variance.... You have the shutline first, then the fender guard is positioned by hand to match it.

A.8 While they do use the trick of putting black paint around the windows to give a floating roof, they don't line up the windows correctly. The third row window is an inch too high, the rear hatch a few inches too low. I hope to see this addressed in production models.

Another example of desigh tricks not used... they should put a curved corner at the front of the first window, and straight corners at the front of the third. It won't matter that the rest of the corners are square, as with creative use of a few round corners and black paint can make these three windows look continuous. That's the effect they wanted with the paint, but the poor alignment ruins it.

The rear end is horrible. Maybe a rear bumper with a stepboard, as well as a general realignment of the rear glass and rear lights (putting standard sized lights into a fiberglass enclosure... again, good trick employed by companies like TVR and Pagani) would help it. Leave the spare tire there... it covers up the blandness.

[size=4]Design Suggestions[/size]

So much for the criticism... here are some suggestions:



Here's a quick and simple fix... straighter fender guards, cohesive character line for the doors, better alignment between side indicator and character lines. If there's any pre-made automotive glass that can be finessed in for the windshield (Tamaraw, maybe?), things might be even better. It might cost more, yes, but it would bring in customers.

Also, a simpler grille, filled (hopefully) with better material.

I theorize suicide doors as another possible method of getting around the external hinge problem. If only the catches are on the B-pillar, then design will be simpler still.



Here's a further refinement, with a taller front fascia and a more level hood. This decreases the complexity of front fender and hood manufacture, and gives the vehicle a more butch appearance... important for the Filipino consumer. Making the vehicle look too much like an MPV will turn off those looking for a rugged work vehicle.

Still, it might even be more effective to take the top end of a Tamaraw and graft it on. It would solve a lot of design problems in one fell stroke.

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Whew! Those are my thoughts. I'll admit, I'm both disappointed and impressed. Impressed at the amount of thought that went into some details, and disappointed that the vehicle seems to have been designed by a committee. They should just assign one person to do the design, and then the rest can argue over costing afterwards. By designing for cheapness instead of around it, they're hurting their chances at sales.

But truthfully, there is some interest in this project, as a few people on site were asking me about it. But if they can't hit that magical 300-350k price tag, and they hit 450-500k, it'll be all for naught. As I've said, Foton already sells vehicles in that price range... vehicles with properly stamped bodies and modern looks.