The Perpetual NBA Thread

[ram]

kobe and steve nash are both injured. who do you think will be most vital to their team in their return from injury?

sa akin, si nash. la can win w/out kobe. his teammates are good, not just him. but phoenix is reeling from the loss of steve. they lost 4 straight w/out him.

[theveed]

RAM: Agree... The thing that I see with the Suns is that they have the talent, walang confidence at leadership lang sa kanila.

[empy]

wag mo ipakita yang pic na yan kay stevie francis....magseselos yun

[baiskee]

hahaha...steve francine...ay, francis pala.

[altec]

Tuesday, January 18, by John Hollinger

Here's a dilemma to consider in the build-up to next month's All-Star Game: How many games can a player miss due to injury before he can't be considered for the midseason classic?

This year, more than ever, coaches must weigh their answers to that question when choosing the reserves. They'll have to judge the merits of at least four All-Star caliber players -- Indiana's Jermaine O'Neal, Utah's Andrei Kirilenko, Washington's Larry Hughes and New Orleans' Baron Davis -- who've suffered prolonged absences.

Their fate is left to the coaches because the fans have already had their say. Normally, we'd have to wait until the voting concludes on Feb. 3 to learn whom the starters will be, but this year the vote at every position is such a landslide that of the 10 positions, only one -- Eastern Conference forward -- has even a remote chance of changing between now and the close of balloting (O'Neal could pass Orlando's Grant Hill).

Thus, we have three weeks to ponder whether Davis, Hughes, Kirilenko and O'Neal have done enough to merit a free trip to Denver. Which brings up the bigger question of what we want the All-Star Game to represent. Is it solely for the most valuable players of the first half of the season, or more generally for the players who we consider the best in the game?

To me, it clearly should be the latter. Meaning, if somebody obviously is one of the best players in the game and happens to be hurt for part of the first half, he's still an All-Star. With the best players, the precedent is well-established; if a Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett spent five weeks on the shelf, the coaches wouldn't hold it against them.

Where it gets trickier is with the second-tier stars -- the guys such as the quartet above. I have two ground rules to help us decide:

1. Did he play enough to make a dent?

The length of the absence matters. At the very least, we should ask an All-Star to play in half his team's games by the time the All-Star Game tips off. Since it's around the 50-game mark for most teams, that would be about 25 games. Also, it goes without saying that in those 25 games he still needs to play at his usual All-Star level, which Davis, Hughes, Kirilenko and O'Neal all have done.

2. Will he take the spot of somebody just as good?

This is the big problem for Kirilenko and Davis especially, because there are so many deserving players in the West. If Kirilenko plays 25 games and somebody else plays 50 games with the same effectiveness, then Kirilenko has no case. The standard should be that the injured guy has to be demonstrably better than whoever's spot he'd take.

With that in mind, we can evaluate whom of our quartet belongs, as well as the composition of the rest of this year's All-Star squads.

Hollinger's All-Stars
EAST
G Gilbert Arenas Wizards
G Steve Francis Magic
G Allen Iverson 76ers
G LeBron James Cavs
G Stephon Marbury Knicks
G Dwyane Wade Heat
F Vince Carter* Nets
F Grant Hill Magic
F Jermaine O'Neal Pacers
F Paul Pierce Celtics
C Shaquille O'Neal Heat
C Ben Wallace Pistons

WEST
G Ray Allen Sonics
G Kobe Bryant Lakers
G Tracy McGrady Rockets
G Steve Nash Suns
F Tim Duncan Spurs
F Pau Gasol Grizzlies
F Kevin Garnett T'wolves
F Andrei Kirilenko Jazz
F Shawn Marion Suns
F Dirk Nowitzki Mavs
C Yao Ming Rockets
C Amare Stoudemire Suns
* - Undeserving, voted in by fans



Let's start in the East, because it's easier. The conference is so weak that only 12 players in the East can make a credible case for belonging on the All-Star team. The rest are either All-Star caliber players suffering off years (Michael Redd, Chauncey Billups), guys who are having career years but have no business being in an All-Star game (Drew Gooden, Nazr Mohammed), or guys who are suspended for the rest of the season for going into the stands to slap around a beer-chucking spectator.

One grossly undeserving player will slip through in the fan voting, however, as small forward/motivational speaker Vince Carter will be awarded a starting slot. That would seem to leave us with a problem -- 11 remaining spots for 12 deserving players. Fortunately, a solution almost immediately presented itself when Hughes broke his thumb this weekend. Based on the second rule above, selecting Hughes would keep somebody out of the game who was nearly as good -- his Washington teammate, Gilbert Arenas. Thus, it's a tough break for Hughes in more ways than one.

On the other hand, O'Neal has a strong case because his presence doesn't keep out another deserving forward, let alone one who has played as well as he has.

So, our Eastern team is set. Shaquille O'Neal gets voted in as the starting center, and Detroit's Ben Wallace is the only defensible choice for a backup. Hill and Carter are the starting forwards, with O'Neal and Boston's Paul Pierce as the reserves. In the backcourt, fan choices Allen Iverson and LeBron James start, with Dwyane Wade, Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis and Arenas as subs.

That wasn't too hard. Unfortunately, now there's the West. As a much more competitive conference, by my count there are at least 18 players who can make a legitimate All-Star claim.

Let's start with the obvious. The fans votes will be Kobe Bryant and Tracy McGrady at guard, Yao Ming at center, and Duncan and Garnett at forward. Add to that list three guys who are getting MVP mentions that no sane person would leave off the team: Steve Nash at guard, Dirk Nowitzki at forward and Amare Stoudemire at center.

That leaves four spots remaining, two of which are fairly clear. The first is Shawn Marion of Phoenix, the forgotten third key to the Suns' amazing start and the only of the Phoenician trio who defends as well as he scores. The second is a player with nearly identical stats -- Memphis's Pau Gasol. He's the one who righted the Grizzlies' wobbly ship early in the season, and after many near misses he's long overdue for the honor.

Two open slots are left, one of which must be a guard. The guards to consider are Davis, Seattle's Ray Allen and San Antonio's Manu Ginobili. Here's where Davis fails the "taking the spot of somebody just as good" test: Allen has been at least as effective and his team has about five times as many wins. Ginobili also has an argument, but he's played 300 fewer minutes than Allen and is far enough above his career norms to have me suspicious about whether he can keep it up.

For the final All-Star bid, we have a wealth of deserving candidates: Ginobili, Davis, Seattle's Rashard Lewis, Sacramento's Chris Webber and Brad Miller, and annual All-Star shaftee Elton Brand of the Clippers. I wouldn't be terribly upset if any one of them made it.

But Kirilenko should be there instead. He's missed a ton of time with injury so coaches are going to forget about him, but he passes both tests. He'll have missed 26 games when he comes back this Saturday, which is an awful lot, but considering that he'll have played in half his team's 52 games by the time the game comes around he just slips past. More important, he passes the second test with flying colors -- he's played spectacularly when on the court, cementing his niche as the game's most unorthodox superstar by dominating games without scoring. No GM in the league would consider, even briefly, taking any of the other players I listed ahead of Kirilenko. Utah's struggles in his absence provide yet another marker of his value.

The coaches may look at this differently, of course -- they usually stick at least one jaw-dropper in their All-Star selections (Wally World, anyone?) -- but the key to their voting is the same as in my exercise: The hard choices they face with Davis, Hughes, Kirilenko and O'Neal. I say O'Neal and Kirilenko get in and the two guards stay home. In a few weeks, we'll see if the coaches agree.

End of article.

Who would be your east and west 2005 NBA all star team?

[pajerokid]

For merging into Perpetual NBA Thread.

[empy]

i hope you guys all voted for your all-star picks in the link i posted a few pages back.

yao is the leading vote-getter, which annoys me because he honestly sucks this year. baka nag ballot box-stuffing ang friends natin sa PRC. at the very least amare should be the starting c.

also, who were the millions who voted for vince carter? how in the world does he deserve an all-star spot?

[empy]

hmmmm....check out these look-alikes:

[baiskee]

hehehe...

eto line up ko sa all-star

west east
- kobe - j. o'neal
- dirk - jamison
- kgarnett - kidd
- duncan - iverson
- nash - shaq

[baiskee]

ESPN.com news services
EL SEGUNDO, Calif. -- Rudy Tomjanovich resigned midway through his first season as coach of the Los Angeles Lakers, citing health reasons.

L.A. general manager Mitch Kupchak met with Tomjanovich at his home Monday after the coach missed Sunday's game because he did not feel well. Their conversation led Kupchak to believe Tomjanovich would resign, and he made it official Wednesday.

"I think this is the best decision for me and the Lakers," a subdued Tomjanovich said at a news conference. "A month ago, I became conscious of not feeling good. As the time went by, I started to feel my resistance going down. I went from this energetic, pumped-up guy to all of a sudden being sapped of a lot of energy.

"I hadn't been on antibiotics for a couple of years, or at least a year, and already here, because of my resistance being low, I was on it consistently, you know, with infections. And it just seemed like I just got deeper and deeper into not feeling good.

"Why this happened now and why my body couldn't take it, I do not have the answer."

Kupchak said assistant coach Frank Hamblen will coach the team and did not give a timetable for a replacement. Attention in Los Angeles immediately turned to Phil Jackson, who led the Lakers to three NBA titles.

The GM said he has not spoken to the former coach for months, but acknowledged Jackson's name would come up when he talked to owner Jerry Buss.

The two have already talked to Kobe Bryant. Kupchak declined to answer questions about specifics of his talks with Bryant, but said the star player would be consulted in the same way previous Lakers stars such as Magic Johnson had been consulted.

Bryant, Tomjanovich said, was not a cause of his resignation, nor was there any conflict with other players or the organization.

"My time with [Kobe] has been great," Tomjanovich said. "Everybody sees the great plays on the floor, but I'm going to remember those private moments."

Tomjanovich addressed the team in an emotional meeting shortly before speaking to the media, and said the get-together with his players got quite emotional.

"I don't cry a lot. I did in that situation," he said.

"He just basically came in and poured his heart out to us," Bryant said. "We just wish him the best. He's extremely passionate, emotional. But he's a fighter. To see him down like that, it really hurt and shocked us all."

Naturally, Bryant was asked about Jackson, who wrote a tell-all book released before the season that portrayed Bryant as aloof and difficult to coach.

"Rudy's situation is a very serious situation. I can't go from that to talk about successors," Bryant said. "It really doesn't matter to me. I'm just the guy in the middle. ... I've said that time and time again, I love Phil as a coach. If that's the decision, I'll roll with it."

Tomjanovich said he'll never coach again.

"That's clear in my mind -- absolutely not," he said.

He said he felt disappointed, but not ashamed.

"I couldn't shut it off when I was away from the arena," Tomjanovich said. "Why this happened now and why my body couldn't take it now, I do not have the answer. I've been through a heck of a lot more."

Like the life-threatening punch he took from Kermit Washington as a player in 1977; his battle with alcoholism, and dealing with bladder cancer less than two years ago.

Tomjanovich survived all that, but decided coaching at this time was too much for him.

"I know I did become consumed and maybe -- I can't remember exactly how I was before -- but I'd go for a walk and think that was an outlet," he said. "But all I thought about was basketball while I was walking."

Proudly, he said his sobriety hasn't been threatened by what he's been going through.

"There are no outside influences, be it pressure from above, anything to do with my players or being here in Los Angeles," Tomjanovich said. "This is all about me and how I'm wired. Nobody put pressure on me but me."

The 56-year-old coach went 24-19 in his first season as Jackson's successor and with a revamped lineup built around Bryant. Hamblen led the Lakers to their past two wins, which Tomjanovich missed with a stomach virus and a sinus infection.

Tomjanovich said that he began wearing down mentally and physically about a month ago.

After victories, Tomjanovich said he would celebrate with a dinner of steak and fries, but the grinding feeling in his stomach always returned by the time he finished his meal.

"It just kept wearing on me and wearing on me and my resistance got low. It hurt my health," he said, clearly subdued. "Maybe I'm an old general that needs to get his butt off the front line and do something else."

Tomjanovich was hired July 10 and signed a five-year, $30 million contract after the Lakers did not renew Jackson's contract.

Jackson led the Lakers to three consecutive NBA championships as well as a berth in the finals in June, when they were upset by Detroit.

After leaving the Lakers, Jackson wrote a tell-all book "The Last Season: A Team in Search of Its Soul" in which he called Bryant "aloof."

"I do know that there were many occasions this year when I felt like there was a psychological war going on between us," Jackson wrote. "Amazingly, we came to a truce, even to a higher level of trust. Ultimately, though, I don't believe we developed enough trust between us to win a championship."

Bryant shrugged off those comments in October, saying he respected Jackson as a coach.

Tomjanovich, who led the Houston Rockets to NBA titles in 1994 and 1995, had returned to coaching after recovering from bladder cancer.

He will stay on with the team for two years as a consultant, a role he said will be defined as he goes, although it will include scouting.

As for Hamblen, he seems ready to handle whatever comes his way. His only other experience as a head coach came in 1991-92 when he went 23-42 with Milwaukee when Del Harris was sidelined by stomach problems.

"Apparently, Mitch said it could be a day, a month, a year," Hamblen said. "There's nothing like the security of the NBA.

"Phil has his lot in life, I have mine. Sure, you'd always like to be an NBA head coach. If I owned a team or was in charge, I'd want Phil Jackson also. He's got nine rings. My ego's not that big. If it ended tomorrow, I'd say these 36 years have been a great ride. It really hasn't sunk in yet about me being the coach of the Lakers."

His first game in that capacity comes Thursday night, when the Lakers try to extend their winning streak to a season-high three games against the San Antonio Spurs, whose 37-10 record is the best in the NBA.

The Lakers then begin a five-game road trip Sunday at Houston.

Bryant said he hopes to play sometime during the trip.

Action Jackson
Lakers owner Jerry Buss and general manager Mitch Kupchak met with Kobe Bryant for a half hour during the game Tuesday to discuss the possible return of Phil Jackson, sources told the Los Angeles Times.
Bryant said that he would agree to Jackson's return, the paper reported.

Jackson, who is in Australia on vacation, told the paper in an e-mail that he was thinking about the possibility.

Kupchak said Wednesday that he hadn't talked to Jackson and that the Lakers have had no "business contact" with Jackson, but acknowledged that he and Buss likely would discuss the former coach.

[pajerokid]

.....and the drama continues......

[theveed]

Lufet talaga Phoenix, ginawang Bobcats ang T-Wolves... 40pt lead by the end of the 3rd...

Mukang yun ang secret nila to preserve the starters, make the 4th quarter unreachable. :D

[ssaloon]

for the lakers.... when it rains, it pours

[ILuvDetailing]

Still... SA is still the team to beat come playoff time barring serious injury to TD.

[empy]

yep...SA absolutely destroyed the Suns by 20+ points at the Alamodome last time. i had $100 on the Suns that game too...+5 pa ako nun :mad:

[baiskee]

yep...SA absolutely destroyed the Suns by 20+ points at the Alamodome last time. i had $100 on the Suns that game too...+5 pa ako nun :mad:

wag muna ser m54, pag swerte ka na sa fantasy mo...then you start your bet.

[empy]

wag muna ser m54, pag swerte ka na sa fantasy mo...then you start your bet.

hehe...kailangan ko pang bumawi. babalik ako ng vegas next week, sa super bowl naman ako tataya.

but about the NBA, who's really hot right now? i was thinking of laying down some bets on the nuggets or heat (not the suns or spurs because they're too obvious and the spreads are gonna be too large)

[empy]

btw guys, good game this evening...Heat vs Cavs, Flash vs. Bron Bron

hopefully they're both fully recovered from their ankle sprains and give us a fantastic duel. i'm gonna go downtown this afternoon and see if i can get tickets (unlikely but you never know)

[kimpOy]

hey M54, eto pa more lookalikes

[kimpOy]

nick d quick-oprah

dolph lundgren-andrei kirilenko

marion jones-mo pete