MAC vs PC vs Linux

[Jun aka Pekto]

people who say that dont really give linux a chance. especially these days na malaki na improvement ng linux sa desktop. i admit medyo malabo pa ng konti given the lack of standards, or should i say people following their own standards, pero once you look at it from a different frame of mind pwede na sya, at least for the IT community.

If Linux can be unified into a single set of standards instead of being so fragmented, then Linux on the desktop may get much easier.

[mikmik316]

I guess with all the talk about Windows good in gaming blah blah... there are also Windows zealots here...

[roninblade]

at least walang ganitong tao dito

from: Linux will not displace Windows
It wont happen
I dont see how this will happen at all.

Vista is far more powerful than windows XP, and runs twice as fast. It is also much harder to pirate, and this point more than anything else has the Linux crowd in a panic.

It wont be long until Windows XP is no longer supported, and when that happens, what is Linux going to do ?

Linux will have to find a way to work under Vista from here on, since it wont be able to rely on XP being readily available anymore.

Linux may seem like a good alternative to Office, but all that is happening in linux is that the windows interface is cleverly hidden away. It still needs the drivers and software services in order to run, and in most cases - that happens WITHOUT a valid windows licence.

This is just plain piracy.

Vista will finally put an end to this blatant abuse of intellectual property, and linux should decline, taking the pirates with it.

Anyone that supports the continuation of Windows XP in place of Vista surely has a hidden agenda .. and you will surely be caught out.

If Linux can be unified into a single set of standards instead of being so fragmented, then Linux on the desktop may get much easier.

don't know if you've read this na pero here's an interesting rant-like blog about linux standards

http://theosib.livejournal.com/1742.html

Conclusion
One of the things I'm implying here is that the Linux community should form standards committees. I've been indirectly involved in standards committees, such as the VESA DPVL committee, and it can be a painful, glacial process. But this pain is necessary if we're to come together and develop elegant systems that work well in the enterprise and on the desktop. Indeed, there are already many Free Software community organizations that develop standards. DRI is one such example, providing a rendering infrastructure that fits into Linux, *BSD, and Solaris. Similarly, my friends with the Open Hardware Foundation are working hard to bring together hardware vendors and projects to develop hardware standards for the good of Free Software. It's been pointed out that Linux isn't any more of a bazaar than Microsoft is a cathedral, so let's not be afraid to develop hierarchy, particularly ones that make it easier for us to nail down what would otherwise be arbitrary choices anyhow. Linux distros and community projects can add representatives to committees that decide things that would constitute sweeping changes to the way we do things. Without a democratic body to do this, it may be impossible for us to identify, decide, and make the changes that we really need to make to keep up.

[Jun aka Pekto]

at least walang ganitong tao dito

The person who wrote that (article) sounds like a MS shill to me.

don't know if you've read this na pero here's an interesting rant-like blog about linux standards

http://theosib.livejournal.com/1742.html

One of my more cliched remarks....."My thoughts exactly"

A standards committee is exactly what's needed. That'll help streamline things a lot, never mind what the zealots say.

[CoDer]

mac is not really for multimedia only. i'm a pure coder din. pero depende pa din what type of programming you do, kung nasa .net ka, no choice but to go with windows. pero kung multiplatform yung language/s na ginagamit mo mas maganda kasi mas madami options.

Yep totally agree with you on this.

people who say that dont really give linux a chance. especially these days na malaki na improvement ng linux sa desktop. i admit medyo malabo pa ng konti given the lack of standards, or should i say people following their own standards, pero once you look at it from a different frame of mind pwede na sya, at least for the IT community.

Linux desktop is livable but is no match when compared to MAC OS and Windows. Linux group better set that standard fast if they want to compete in the desktop market. But its Linux for me when it come to servers, although I also setup and configure Windows server because my clients use them.

And as for MAC, my clients only use it for their digital image editing business and their macBook for fashion sense.

My last two words is a joke so don't burn me on that.

[///MPower]

Yes, but Macs aren't cheap either. I've never seen a Php15k cheapass desktop or a 40k laptop from Apple. (all right, 25k and 50k for the legit stuff ) The PC market isn't just the Dell mid-end stuff.

Granted, they don't have an ultra-economy product line, that's not an issue. If you are looking for a super low end computer, you wouldn't be looking at any of Apple's competitors either. For the equipment (perhaps even software) you get with a Mac, a Mac is no more expensive than a PC.

Uhhh, I don't get it. And isn't that Media Access Control?

You're right. My bad.

Windows costs $$$$. A Mac system costs $$$$. (Piracy stuff aside, obviously!)

What's your point? Is someone somewhere giving away PC's and copies of Windows for the PC's and even GAMES, for that matter, away for free? Everything costs money. Thanks for pointing that out.

If you can live with just one, why do you have to have the other!

That doesn't even make sense. My point is that you can have both Windows and OS X, not that you must. Maybe you're happy just using one system; you need to consider some would like to not have to deal with viruses and spyware and crashing systems for the most part, and once in a while play a computer game. Dual booting means you don't have to choose between them.

Windows. From Windows 2000. Decent. But not amazing.
iPod. All versions. Decent. But not amazing.

Now you're getting it. Except replace "Windows 2000. Decent" with "Windows NT, fundamentally flawed design that no amount of patching will ever fix, no matter how many times they rebrand it as 2000 or XP." I could go on about how security on every version of Windows is a joke, but I'll save you the boring tech rant.

[Alpha_One]

What's your point? Is someone somewhere giving away PC's and copies of Windows for the PC's and even GAMES, for that matter, away for free? Everything costs money. Thanks for pointing that out.


That doesn't even make sense. My point is that you can have both Windows and OS X, not that you must. Maybe you're happy just using one system; you need to consider some would like to not have to deal with viruses and spyware and crashing systems for the most part, and once in a while play a computer game. Dual booting means you don't have to choose between them.

I did indeed point out that stuff costs money. You posted as if buying a Mac and a copy of Windows and setting up dual-boot was totally trivial, and I mistook your post for saying that dual-boot was a must (as opposed to an option). My bad.

[oldblue]

I also thought of that buying a mac intel duo and dual boot. why bother?

masisira lang ulo ko handling/operating two operating systems.

imagine a life where you have a dual boot Mac, a Symbian phone, a Pocket PC or Palm-based PDA. there are only 24 hours in a day: 8 of which you spend sleeping, 1 hour getting up, taking a bath, preparing for work. 2 hours cumulative for the 3 meals. and another 2 more for commuting/driving/traveling.

11 hours na lang. bosses and companies and customers dont care how much you know whether you are a Guru of OS/X, Windows, Linux, Unix, Mainframe, Symbian and some proprietary OS combined. they care more if you can finish the task at the shortest possible time.

just find a computer system that can help you do this. after all a computer is just a tool.

[metatron]

I also thought of that buying a mac intel duo and dual boot. why bother?

masisira lang ulo ko handling/operating two operating systems.

imagine a life where you have a dual boot Mac, a Symbian phone, a Pocket PC or Palm-based PDA. there are only 24 hours in a day: 8 of which you spend sleeping, 1 hour getting up, taking a bath, preparing for work. 2 hours cumulative for the 3 meals. and another 2 more for commuting/driving/traveling.

11 hours na lang. bosses and companies and customers dont care how much you know whether you are a Guru of OS/X, Windows, Linux, Unix, Mainframe, Symbian and some proprietary OS combined. they care more if you can finish the task at the shortest possible time.

just find a computer system that can help you do this. after all a computer is just a tool.

dual booting isn't that complicated. with regards to laptops, i use a macbook for everything except for mission-critical windows exclusive programs (medical stat analysis software in my case). just have to remember the crippled xp is only an add-on feature and not a full fledged OS for the hardware.

can't imagine myself relying solely on OSX though (and having a mac desktop for that matter). the relative obscurity of the mac that contributed to its virtual malware immunity is also the reason why i need MS OS - i don't have everything i need (software and hardware-wise) in macs.

why i didn't opt for a windows based lappy? presentation-wise, apple's keynote just manages to wow the audiences better.

[///MPower]

You can even use virtualization software like Parallels to run Windows apps right in OS X without restarting into XP.

Windows' large user base is NOT the reason it is prone to viruses and other malware. Unix servers make up the majority of those on the internet. However, it is Windows based servers that are most often attacked successfully. Windows is crappy software with a crappy security model.

And, yes, Keynote looks so good, I almost wonder if my presentations are so well-taken simply because of the App itself.

[metatron]

You can even use virtualization software like Parallels to run Windows apps right in OS X without restarting into XP.

Haven't tried parallels. is it good? does the VM implementation slow down OSX? $80 is still too expensive for software that has spotty usb support. will try the trial version pag may time.

Windows' large user base is NOT the reason it is prone to viruses and other malware. Unix servers make up the majority of those on the internet. However, it is Windows based servers that are most often attacked successfully. Windows is crappy software with a crappy security model.

isn't majority of malware still engineered for the windows home user base?

And, yes, Keynote looks so good, I almost wonder if my presentations are so well-taken simply because of the App itself.

the app can only do so much. kung wala talagang kuwenta content ng presentation, iiwan ka rin ng audience.

i personally like using the subtle fade effects through the bulk of the slideshow then floor the audience (99% powerpoint users) with a reflection or page flip slide transition just before my 'thank you for not heckling' slide. works everytime.

[Jun aka Pekto]

I've been in the thick of the platform wars since the late 80's. At this point I don't really care anymore. I have all the platforms which is why I'm not going to bother defending each one.

But, one thing I know about presentations is that most higher ups want their presentations short and right to the point. The one time I tried putting any special effects like fades, I was told to just have the slides and cut everything else off. They don't want anything extra because they're just BS. Anything that's not relevant to the presentation itself and makes them wait, even for a couple seconds....cut it.

[Dr.Kamiya]

mac is not really for multimedia only. i'm a pure coder din. pero depende pa din what type of programming you do, kung nasa .net ka, no choice but to go with windows. pero kung multiplatform yung language/s na ginagamit mo mas maganda kasi mas madami options.


people who say that dont really give linux a chance. especially these days na malaki na improvement ng linux sa desktop. i admit medyo malabo pa ng konti given the lack of standards, or should i say people following their own standards, pero once you look at it from a different frame of mind pwede na sya, at least for the IT community.

Try out textyle on the Mac. Emacs users will be right at home, and you'll be amazed at the power.

Personally I think we oughta choose OSs like choosing tools. Get the right one for the job you want to do.

[Dr.Kamiya]

IMO the biggest problem with the Linux desktop experience is the Linux philosophy itself. Open source code means there's a lot of developers contributing code, unfortunately developers aren't usually the people you'd go to if you want a snazzy design, or a functional layout.

Being adept, long-time computer users (from the good (or bad, depending on how you see it) old days), most developers tend to be able to work with bad UIs, so what's usable for a developer can be utter chaos for your average joe.

[///MPower]

Haven't tried parallels. is it good? does the VM implementation slow down OSX? $80 is still too expensive for software that has spotty usb support. will try the trial version pag may time.

It's great. I do a lot of web design, so it's good to be able to pop up IE and FF on Windows to see if it all looks right, all from my Mac. (So I can avoid walking the 12 feet to my XP Box. Ha ha.)

isn't majority of malware still engineered for the windows home user base?

Yes, but servers are targets for hackers and other miscreants, and despite UNIX being the majority, Windows servers are the ones most often compromised. It simply demonstrates that (a) the software is flawed and (b) market share has little to do with how easy it is to exploit a given system.

the app can only do so much. kung wala talagang kuwenta content ng presentation, iiwan ka rin ng audience.

That's what you think, until you realize that people are actually watching your presentation on nudibranch heart rates and their reactions to various neurotransmitters. ;) But of course, you are 100% correct, even if eye candy does help a little.

[ikenn]

The platform war is going on for so long. Its really just a matter of preferences. I'm a mac user and I don't bother with trying to convert people who dont want to be converted. If they are happy with their current platform then its fine.

But since I'm biased I do try to convert people who seems to be impressed with a Mac.

Some misconception with Mac are:

Too expensive: as mentioned earlier in the thread its not that expensive if you are computing by the specs. The Macbook line are reasonably priced. However I do think the Mac Pro is very pricey. So is the Mac mini, I would rather go with the iMac.

They should open up Mac OSX to other PC vendor and it would sell like hotcakes: No, I don't think it will. It will be harder to maintain the quality of the OS with so many configuration. That's one of the reason why should not shoot down MS. Its not easy to make sure your OS will run on everything. Apple has it easy with pre-configured computers.

There are few viruses on Mac because of their low market share: If Apple flaunt their OS to be very secure don't you think it the virus maker will be challenged by this?

Few softwares on Mac: freemacware.com has a lot of opensource application for mac that are very nice. and its FREE! being cheap I prefer getting the freewares instead of the commercial apps. They basically do the same thing anyway. hehe

Few games on mac: no arguments there, but some of the good games are mac only. But i'm not really a gamer so can't comment on that.

[ikenn]

That's what you think, until you realize that people are actually watching your presentation on nudibranch heart rates and their reactions to various neurotransmitters. ;) But of course, you are 100% correct, even if eye candy does help a little.[/QUOTE]

Slightly OT, the less nonsense your presentation is the better. If the audiene remember the slides then you're not really doing a good job. But, if they remember the whole presentation (in a good way) then that's it. This site provide excellent insights and tips for doing a presentation, http://www.presentationzen.com/

[Jun aka Pekto]

The problem I had with many non-Windows users is that they tended to regard Windows-users as "the masses" simpletons who are clueless. From a certain perspective, they are correct. But, their constant putting down of Windows is really becoming old. Enough already, including the current Mac ads.

[Karding]

may pagkakaiba ba?

Im not too sure why I use OSX and WinXP and Vista. Lets see...

OSX: I use it to test peripheral equipment, and Office 2004 Other than that, I use just like how I would use Windows.

Windows: distributed enterprise wide sa work. also, I've been using windows ever since I learned how to type, haha.

Linux: I used to load image of RHEL9, but that's about it. Didnt really learn Linux, I should have but haven't had time the past 7-years. Interesado na ako ulit sa Linux to exploit Windows, sort of IT security. I hope I can find O'reilly's Linux pocket guide that was given by the company.

[Jun aka Pekto]

may pagkakaiba ba?

Tiger does feel a bit more polished and orderly than either XP or Vista. It is hard to fault Tiger and Apple hardware with most of my quibbles over minor stuff.

But, is it enough to justify the smugness displayed by many of its users, at least here in our town? Nope.

I have to admit, the Apple Store here is in the rich side of town (the northern foothills).....in a tiny mall with Armani store, more upscale Victoria's Secret, and formal black tie/gown dinner come sundown. We could feel the nostrils of the people there reaching for the sky....