Reproductive Health Bill 5043 [MERGED]

[Lucius]

The points above have already been debunked by an earlier posting by niky wherein sections of the bill that pertain to these were explained. Backed up by "true hard evidential facts and not on haka-haka of contrived fictitious imaginations…" as you put it.

That being said, aren't you the one resorting to "haka-haka of contrived fictitious imaginations… usapan neighborhood tsimosa talk"?

He got ownd with this

[badsekktor]

http://ddp-ext.worldbank.org/ext/ddp...E=VIEWADVANCED

world bank reports

http://www.nscb.gov.ph/secstat/d_popn.asp

government statistical data

Population of the Philippines
Census Years 1799 to 2007

Year
Population
Average annual rate of increase (%)
Source of data

1799
1,502,574
-
Fr. Buzeta

1800
1,561,251
3.91
Fr. Zuniga

1812
1,933,331
1.80
Cedulas

1819
2,106,230
1.23
Cedulas

1829
2,593,287
2.10
Church

1840
3,096,031
1.62
Local officials

1850
3,857,424
2.22
Fr. Buzeta

1858
4,290,381
1.34
Bowring

1870
4,712,006
0.78
Guia de Manila

1877
5,567,685
2.41
Census

1887
5,984,727
0.72
Census

1896
6,261,339
0.50
Prof. Plehn's estimate based on census records.

1903
7,635,426
2.87
Census

1918
10,314,310
2.03
Census

1939
16,000,303
2.11
Census

1948
19,234,182
2.07
Census

1960
27,087,685
2.89
Census

1970
36,684,486
3.08
Census

1975
42,070,660
2.78
Census

1980
48,098,460
2.71
Census

1990
60,703,206
2.35
Census

1995
68,616,536
2.32
Census

2000 76,504,077 2.36 Census
2007 88,574,614 2.04 Census

Note: Population from 1799 to 1896 excludes non-Christians.

a - Includes the household population, homeless population, Filipinos in Philippine Embassies/Consulates and missions abroad and institutional population who are found living in institutional living quarters such as penal institutions, orphanages, hospitals, military camps, etc. at the time of the census taking.

Source: National Statistics Office.

wala naman sigurong buhay nuong 1799 na buhay pa nung year 2007. so that would mean that people are continuosly being replenished by the newer generations, meron pa sobra! hehehe! But the question is what is the ideal number so that we could sustain quality living conditions to most of our countrymen, hindi yun parang kulungan na kapag kakasya pa eh pupunuin mo pa hanggang sa di na makagalaw mga nakakulong.

We have to balance our population with our current economic situation.And right now we cannot afford a larger population without sacrificing a whole lot of it to poverty.

[scharnhorst]

You guys are spreading defamatory lies.

Look at both sides of the coin. You refuse to see the less-than-holy actions by some of the church's members. Explain then the defamation being given by several parishes about the proponents of the RH bill.

Those appointed by God are still men. And men can still make mistakes.

As to the population issue, you guys don't know what you are talking about with your myopic view of concluding from a particular case of seeing some poor on the streets and equating it with overpopulation and you do not see the elephant of idle economic resources all over the country.

The problem is the inequitable distribution of the country's economic resources and the inequitable distribution of the economic benefits from our natural resources perpetuated the inept government brought about by our corrupt culture and not over population.

I agree with this. seems you've been attending certain educational discussions.

Read back about the catastrophe that faces us if the continuing decline of our total fertility rate is aggravated by the population control bill. Read specially the comment by Sonny Feliciano and see how gravely erroneous it is to say that the Philippines is experiencing population explosion

Our population would have the same problems now facing the developed countries that now are experiencing negative population growth caused by embracing the UN HR Population Control Agenda projected to begin occurring in the year 2025 and would geometrically hasten if the RH Bill is passed.

The RH bill isn't just about population control. I am not going to explain it again.

The RH Bill in our legislature is part of this UN HR Population Control Agenda that is part of NSSM 200.

NSSM 200 charts the global economic oligarchs in pursuing and promoting to control the use of our natural resources.

It is treasonous to kowtow with such an imperialistic agenda that is detrimental not only to our ability to utilize our natural resources but also to the degenerating the morals of our people with the carcinogenic abortifacient contraceptive culture that the RH Bill actually promotes and legally subjugate the Whole of Philippine Society.

Perhaps the other proponents of the NSSM 200 does impose a chokehold... but how did the promotion of complete well-being equate with imperialism?

The use of force with the penalties that the RH Bill imposes on those who make a stand on their faith and personal conviction against such matters as:

·The disrobing of parents of their authority to discipline their children on matters of ***ual promiscuity, the legal availability of carcinogenic abortifacient contraceptives the promotes a degenerate culture even to minors starting at the tender age of ten-year olds,

·As well as not complying with the giving of employees carcinogenic abortifacient contraceptives that promotes a degenerate culture.

This certainly depicts an oppressive totalitarian iron hand that threatens the very freedom that we have in our present democratic Republic of the Philippines.

Is this not treason against our Filipino People?

To deny the Filipino people access to any kind of health care is treason.

Please be sure your statements and assertions are back up with true hard evidential facts and not on haka-haka of contrived fictitious imaginations…

Otherwise dating ay ang discussion ay usapan neighborhood tsimosa talk.

Aren't some of your statements subjective in itself?

I take my statements from the Community Oriented Medicine unit and the WHO. I take my facts and figures regarding contraceptives from peer-reviewed journals, published books, and our esteemed faculty. So don't go around comparing sources.

did you even bother to read the more substantive counterpoints to your statements?

This thread is useless.

[Altis6453]

Typical of the CBCP to try and supress the Reproductive Health bill. Just a thought, when you have multitudes of poor, malnourished and uneducated children roaming the streets and begging for alms until late in the evening, is there anything that you see them do to address the problem decisively?

If there was, they should have the problem licked by now but it just keeps getting worse. Pretty soon, they'd probably have moral objections to owning an ipod just because you can use the wifi to surf online ****. Sheesh.

[marg]

Throughout history, the catholic church has lied countless times to the people.

For more than 1000 years, cremation was prohibited by the church. The catholics were warned that they would not be saved by Christ during his return if their bodies are burned. When it became apparent that a shortage of burial space was becoming a problem in Europe, the church changed its stance and allowed cremation during the 2nd vatican council in the 1970's.

So did Jesus suddenly change his mind about saving cremated people or did the catholic church keep a lie going for centuries.

Another example, Jesus's birthday is not really December 25. The fake date was chosen to coincide with pagan festivals to make Christianity easier to accept by the non-believers. So much for honoring Christ.

Study about the Crusades, the Inquisition, Galileo, Copernicus, Darwin, and the reason for the Celibacy of priests and you will realize how abusive the catholic church is.

Marami pa yan. Magugulat na lang kayo.

BTW, contraceptives are sanctioned by the governments of Italy and Spain. So are the Pinoys trying hard to be more "catholic" than the originals?

[kitsons]

A declining population is not genocide.

And population control is not solely to blame for the low birth rates in developed countries. Rather, it's something more basic.

Rich people don't have kids.

And people who want to be rich don't have time to have kids. Japan's low birth rate isn't due to condom overuse... these people work twenty-four hours a day just to get by... the cost of living is incredibly high... and the stress of urban life has been proven to lower sperm counts.

In any population decline, it's the educated middle class and upper class that decline, not the lower class. Those who participate and contribute less to the economy have more time on their hands to have more kids.



Ayn Rand was a white supremacist? Hahahaha! There are a million criticisms that can be leveled at Ayn Rand, but I'm sure she would be immensely tickled by this.



And why do you think that is? Because they carefully tried to convince the brown man to stop reproducing? Bull. The decline of populations in developed countries is due to some of the factors I mentioned above.



Does your friend go by the name "Deep Throat"?

The big question is... why the specific countries listed, and not others that have more natural resources?

Simply because these countries, at the time, were major sources of political instability... the Philippines is included because of the Communist insurgency.

You can read anything you want into anything... but Kissinger had a point... excessive population growth is bad for the Philippines. Our public education system is already full to bursting... our agricultural sector is hampered by a lack of development and a lack of fund allocation... having more hands to do the work might sound great on the surface of it... but it means having many, many... many more mouths to feed... many of whom do not have the economic capacity to contribute greatly to the Gross National Product of the country.



Know why farmland goes underutilized? Because there's no economic incentive to grow. We simply can't match the productivity of more advanced countries in terms of agriculture. Again... too many hands... too little capital.

And there's the small matter of bio-resources. Despite the amount of land lying fallow, we've already pushed many local species to the brink of extinction... every species that dies off this way is a biological resource... a potential source of genetic material, products or even medicine... the loss of biodiversity is a loss of resources.

And converting more land to farmland contributes to more erosion, loss of topsoil and "climate change"... the biggest carbon-fixing resource we have is our large tracts of tropical forest... and yet there are areas and species of tree that have become endangered already due to overharvesting (go up north to see our preserves of Narra...).



Go to the slums and tell them that no one is dying of hunger. I'm sure they'll welcome you very warmly. The people washing themselves in other people's sewage... living on garbage, spoiled food and leftovers... and these are the richer ones. The ones who can't compete are left to beg on deserted street corners (pushed out by the more able-bodied ones and those supported by syindicates). And yet these people are infinitely wealthier than some people in the province, and those from hunter-gatherer cultures whose lands have been subsumed by development.

-

Overpopulation in the metro can be directly correlated to a lack of resources. We lack the resources and wealth to support a thriving agrarian population, thus they all gravitate towards the city where the money is.

Finally got in again in this forum.

Strange that last I sent a reply, was disconnected and have had difficulty connecting.

With a shot gun approach with the other postings concerning the Catholic Church and the question of population genocide among others, first about the population explosion myth.

The discussion here does not focus on religious beliefs but on moral principles so defamation of the Catholic Church is another subject matter of which I hope to find time to address one of this days. Am fitting in time to give a reply here to clarify why the RH Bill is something disastrous for the Filipino people.

Please read Robert Sassone's book on population that presents info on resources available in terms of over-all world resources wherein a microcosm is evident here in our country wherein we say overpopulation when the resources are not enough to sustain the people of a given country.

Overpopulation in the urban areas is a reality given the congestion the traffic and presence of squatters. Yet as Sonny Feliciano stated that in Isabela, the probelm is depopulation and the more farms are becoming idle as the farmers there have been migrating to urban areas.

The resources in the rural areas are lying underutilized if not completely idle and this doe not give credence that there is the lack of resources in the Philippines to say that we are overpopulated as a country and that there is population when in fact total fertility rate is declining and the present 2.04% population growth rate is below the replacement rate of 2.16% tht demographers forecast that by the year 2025, we would be in the same predicament as those countries that embraced the UN HR population control agenda that the RH Bill in fact is towing.

The carcinogenic abortifacient contraceptives the promote moral degeneration among our youths certainly will also affect our economy,

The direct effect would come in form of destructive acts committed by an immoral if not amoral Filipino society would be equivalent to what is now happening in the developed societies that have become decadent that respect for the dignity and sanctity of human has been continually disappearing.

Read the news. Every day more and more murders are committed by not only adults but also now even constantly in the news of teenyboppers as young as 11 and 9 years of age involved in premeditated murders with such moral decay

Pasted are some of the questionable provision on the RH Bill that presents also some of the points am referring to (there are more that have dastardly legal implications in between the lines):

(Check out the effects of contraceptives at the very bottom that will show how the countries are on the way to committing population genocide and of which there are already predictions that EU demography will change with the present Caucasian race to disappear and taken over by the prolific and anti population control societies most of which are Muslims)


QUESTIONNABLE PROVISIONS OF THE REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH (RH) BILL 5043

Provision Remarks

Title: An Act Providing for a National Policy on Reproductive Health, Responsible Parenthood & Population Development, and for Other Purposes

Unconstitutional. Under Art. VI, Sec. 26 (1) of the Constitution says: “Every bill passed by Congress shall embrace only one subject which shall be expressed in the title thereof. “
Sec. 2: Declaration of Policy …”The State upholds and promotes responsible parenthood…respect for life in conformity with internationally recognized human rights standards.”
International convention does not universally recognize the right to life of the unborn.
“ …guarantees universal access to RH care services …”
So broad, that this provision may include aspirators for abortion..


(to be continued)

[kitsons]

(to be continued)
[/quote]
Sec 3. Guiding Principles (g) …information on RH and human ***uality to couples...unmarried individuals
Indirectly promotes promiscuity among individuals outside of marriage.
( l ) ….Respect for, protection and fulfillment of RH rights…of those of adolescents’ and children’s as well

Teaches those in the age group of 10-17 years old their “right” to have a “safe and satisfying” *** life…it targets children and teenagers to become ***ually active.
Sec 4. Definition of Terms.
( c ) on RH …
Reproductive health includes abortion, as admitted by Hilary Clinton in 2009 before the U.S. Congress.
( g ) on RH care…”availability of and access to a full range of methods, techniques, supplies…”
Provides an opening for the legalization and importation of abortifacient drugs
( h) on RH education … “ process of acquiring …information on all matters relating to the reproductive system…and human ***uality, and forming attitudes and beliefs about ***. ***ual identity, interpersonal relationships…and gender roles…and critically evaluate and discuss the moral, religious, social and cultural dimensions of related sensitive issues, such as contraception and abortion.

[IMG]file:///C:/Users/Guest/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]

Sec. 10. Contraceptives as Essential Medicines.
“Hormonal contraceptives, intrauterine devices…
shall be considered under the category of essential medicines… and shall be included in the
regular purchase… of all national and local
hospitals….”
Bakit nakikialam ang Gobyerno sa mga sensitibong bagay, tulad ng “contraception” at “abortion” na mas may karapatan ang Simbahan at mga magulang sa paggabay at pagturo sa kanilang mga anak tungkol sa pagpapahalaga sa “human ***uality” na regalo ng Diyos?




Medicines cure but contraceptives do not, unless pregnancy is now considered a fearful disease? Also, there are findings on the carcinogenic side effects of contraceptives. Note that the Constitution provides protection to consumers against hazardous products. (Art. 15, Sec. 9)
Sec. 12. Mandatory Age-Appropriate RH Education. “RH Education …shall be taught by adequately trained teachers starting from Grade 5 up to Fourth Year High School… The POPCOM shall formulate the RH Education curriculum …common to both public and private schools…
This mandatory provision deprives children aged 10 This mandatory provision deprives children aged 10 to 17 years of their innocence. Teaching them how to use artificial contraceptives, among others, may encourage them to experiment/ engage in ***ual activities.

Sec. 16. Ideal Family Size.”…encourage them to have two children only …”

Presumably, this is to control the number of children to reduce population so as to eradicate poverty. But, is not corruption the cause of poverty? Should not the government focus in managing resources wisely to provide for basic needs, like livelihood, education and health care for primary and preventable diseases.
Sec. 17. Employers’ Responsibilities. “…provide free delivery of RH care services, supplies and devices to all workers…”

Compels employers to provide for private decisions of employees which have nothing to do with their core business without considering financial situation and religious convictions.
Sec. 21. Prohibited Acts, (a) and (b). This concerns health care providers and public officials who fail to deliver RH care services.


(e) Malicious disinformation about the Intent / Provisions of the Act
Though there is respect for the religious conviction of the health care provider, what if she/he cannot get somebody to implement RH care service, will she be penalized?

There is vagueness in the phrase “malicious disinformation” which could impinge on freedom of speech and/or freedom of the press.
Sec. 22. Penalties: 1-6 mos imprisonment, or fine Is this fair and democratic, considering that this
P10,000-P50,000 or both; dismissal from is a family-oriented and God-loving nation?
Government Service if public official.

SOME STATISTICS TO CONSIDER FOLLOWING THE ADOPTION OF CONTRACEPTIVES IN THE U.S. and GREAT BRITAIN ***

• In 20 years, the rate of family dissolution reached 250%.
• In less than 40 years, the number of couples living together increased by 865%. Studies show that women in such relationships are several times more likely to be abused, and so are children.
• In 30 years, rate of violent crime increased by 500%, largely as a result of the destruction of marriages.
• In Great Britain, it now at the lowest rate of marriage since records began in 1862.
• In Britain, there were around 400, 000 new cases of ***ually transmitted diseases in 2007.
• In the U.S, nearly 19 million new cases of ***ually transmitted diseases (STDs) are recorded each year, more than half of them among the age group 15 – 24 years.

*** These data, and some of the remarks in this handout, were taken from the paper “Reproductive Health Bill (5043): Overview & Objections,” by Bootes Esden Lopos, MPM and Rene Lopos, MAP, 2009.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________

Given during the “Forum: Reproductive Health Bill 5043,” hosted by St. Paul the Apostle Parish held at St. Mary’s College Auditorium, QC on October 17, 2009.

Check out life of Ayn Rand and her gang mates that include Magaret Sangre and what their advocacy were Niky. Check out how they died na rin then reflect on the principles they stood for. Would be interested on knowing what your view then of seeing the totality of what these people stood for.

[kitsons]

Throughout history, the catholic church has lied countless times to the people.

For more than 1000 years, cremation was prohibited by the church. The catholics were warned that they would not be saved by Christ during his return if their bodies are burned. When it became apparent that a shortage of burial space was becoming a problem in Europe, the church changed its stance and allowed cremation during the 2nd vatican council in the 1970's.

So did Jesus suddenly change his mind about saving cremated people or did the catholic church keep a lie going for centuries.

Another example, Jesus's birthday is not really December 25. The fake date was chosen to coincide with pagan festivals to make Christianity easier to accept by the non-believers. So much for honoring Christ.

Study about the Crusades, the Inquisition, Galileo, Copernicus, Darwin, and the reason for the Celibacy of priests and you will realize how abusive the catholic church is.

Marami pa yan. Magugulat na lang kayo.

BTW, contraceptives are sanctioned by the governments of Italy and Spain. So are the Pinoys trying hard to be more "catholic" than the originals?

[SIZE=3]Manifestly, you are not knowledgeable about the Catholic Faith with your false accusations that you refer to the errors of men who acted on their own in defiance of what the Church teaches... There were many of them and even up to now, there are those who call themselves Catholic but in reality do not adhere to the Church tenets.

Perhaps, if you can tell me what you know about the Catholic Faith that can prove your accusations are not false, maybe there would be credibility in what you are asserting against the Catholic Church here in the Philippines.

Do you really know the events surrounding the times of the inquisition? You'd be surprised that it was more political in nature than religious.

Did you know that Henry VII did not want to separate from Rome but was forced by his ministers due to the bankruptcy of trhe English Kingdom that King Henry VIII was facing?

The ministers pushed him in order to acquire the enormous holdings that the Catholic Church owned that was endowed by Catholic monarchies... eventually the stolen wealth also disappeared.

Did you know that once upon a time there even were three Popes, the real one, a usurper and one that was elected by the two who eventually reneged on their agreement to resolve the conflict... was this the Catholic Church teachings found in Her Catechism and was totally incompatible with our Lord Jesus Christ teachings??

What is the Catholic Church? What are the beliefs, rituals, doctrines and dogmas that the Catholic Church teaches that gives evidence to your accusations?[/SIZE]

[kitsons]

[SIZE=3]Manifestly, you are not knowledgeable about the Catholic Faith with your false accusations that you refer to the errors of men who acted on their own in defiance of what the Church teaches... There were many of them and even up to now, there are those who call themselves Catholic but in reality do not adhere to the Church tenets.

Perhaps, if you can tell me what you know about the Catholic Faith that can prove your accusations are not false, maybe there would be credibility in what you are asserting against the Catholic Church here in the Philippines.

Do you really know the events surrounding the times of the inquisition? You'd be surprised that it was more political in nature than religious.

Did you know that Henry VII did not want to separate from Rome but was forced by his ministers due to the bankruptcy of trhe English Kingdom that King Henry VIII was facing?

The ministers pushed him in order to acquire the enormous holdings that the Catholic Church owned that was endowed by Catholic monarchies... eventually the stolen wealth also disappeared.

Did you know that once upon a time there even were three Popes, the real one, a usurper and one that was elected by the two who eventually reneged on their agreement to resolve the conflict... was this the Catholic Church teachings found in Her Catechism and was totally incompatible with our Lord Jesus Christ teachings??

What is the Catholic Church? What are the beliefs, rituals, doctrines and dogmas that the Catholic Church teaches that gives evidence to your accusations?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]
Erratum: It is Henry VIII and not Henry VII. The former started the Anglican Church that embraced most of Luther's demands on the Catholic Church found in Luther's manifesto to allow some sort of legalization of his divorce to his real wife to be able to marry his kabit.[/SIZE]

[fourtheboys96]

[B]
(to be continued)

Sec 3. Guiding Principles (g) …information on RH and human ***uality to couples...unmarried individuals
Indirectly promotes promiscuity among individuals outside of marriage.

"g. While the number and spacing of children are left to the sound judgment of parents and couples based on their personal conviction and religious beliefs, such concerned parents and couples, including unmarried individuals, should be afforded free and full access to relevant, adequate and correct information on reproductive health and human ***uality and should be guided by qualified State workers and professional private practitioners;"

sa susunod, pakipost po yung buong provision na iyong tinutukoy. simple lang copy paste sa PC. asan jan ang promotion of ***ual promiscuity? ang "correct information on RH at human ***uality" ay katumbas ng ***ual promiscuity? ibukas ang isipan. RH at human suxuality ay and hindi lamang tumutukoy at higit pa sa akto ng pagtatalik.

[B]
( l ) ….Respect for, protection and fulfillment of RH rights…of those of adolescents’ and children’s as well

Teaches those in the age group of 10-17 years old their “right” to have a “safe and satisfying” *** life…it targets children and teenagers to become ***ually active.

"l. Respect for, protection and fulfillment of reproductive health rights seek to promote not only the rights and welfare of adult individuals and couples but those of adolescents’ and children’s as well; and"

na naman. ano ka ba? reproductive health=*** na naman. makitid ba ang depinisyon niyo ng RH? di ba sabi nga ay "state of physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity,..." oo kasama ang *** life pero ndi lamang iyon ang tinutukoy. gets?

[B]
Sec 4. Definition of Terms.
( c ) on RH …
Reproductive health includes abortion, as admitted by Hilary Clinton in 2009 before the U.S. Congress.
( g ) on RH care…”availability of and access to a full range of methods, techniques, supplies…”
Provides an opening for the legalization and importation of abortifacient drugs
( h) on RH education … “ process of acquiring …information on all matters relating to the reproductive system…and human ***uality, and forming attitudes and beliefs about ***. ***ual identity, interpersonal relationships…and gender roles…and critically evaluate and discuss the moral, religious, social and cultural dimensions of related sensitive issues, such as contraception and abortion.

Una, si Hillary Clinton ba ay kasama sa Kongreso natin? Pangalawa, may definition ng RH sa bill. Bakit si Clinto ang i-cite mo?


Pangatlo, kung i-copy paste mo lamang yung buong provision, ndi tayo malilito. ok?

The elements of reproductive health care include:

1. Maternal, infant and child health and nutrition;

2. Promotion of breastfeeding;

3. Family planning information end services;

4. Prevention of abortion and management of post-abortion complications;


[IMG]file:///C:/Users/Guest/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]

[B]
Sec. 10. Contraceptives as Essential Medicines.
“Hormonal contraceptives, intrauterine devices…
shall be considered under the category of essential medicines… and shall be included in the
regular purchase… of all national and local
hospitals….”
Bakit nakikialam ang Gobyerno sa mga sensitibong bagay, tulad ng “contraception” at “abortion” na mas may karapatan ang Simbahan at mga magulang sa paggabay at pagturo sa kanilang mga anak tungkol sa pagpapahalaga sa “human ***uality” na regalo ng Diyos?

separation of church and state. trabaho yan ng gobyerno at ndi ng simbahan. isa pa, hindi lahat ng Filipino ay Katoliko. konting respeto sa kanila. hindi porket ayaw ng mga Katoliko (which I doubt) ay ayaw na din ng non-Catholics.

[B]
Medicines cure but contraceptives do not, unless pregnancy is now considered a fearful disease? Also, there are findings on the carcinogenic side effects of contraceptives. Note that the Constitution provides protection to consumers against hazardous products. (Art. 15, Sec. 9)

Dito agree ako sa point mo. Pero I doubt lahat ng contraceptives are carcinogenic. Ang condom cguro hinde.

[B]
Sec. 12. Mandatory Age-Appropriate RH Education. “RH Education …shall be taught by adequately trained teachers starting from Grade 5 up to Fourth Year High School… The POPCOM shall formulate the RH Education curriculum …common to both public and private schools…
This mandatory provision deprives children aged 10 This mandatory provision deprives children aged 10 to 17 years of their innocence. Teaching them how to use artificial contraceptives, among others, may encourage them to experiment/ engage in ***ual activities.

nabanggit na ito dati eh. noong mga panahong wala pang *** education, ang mga bata bang 10-17yrs old inosente? *** education magiging sanhi ng pagkawala ng kainosentahan? hindi kaya pwede din dahil sa mga nababasa o di kaya nama'y mga napapanood sa TV?

[B]
Sec. 16. Ideal Family Size.”…encourage them to have two children only …”

Presumably, this is to control the number of children to reduce population so as to eradicate poverty. But, is not corruption the cause of poverty? Should not the government focus in managing resources wisely to provide for basic needs, like livelihood, education and health care for primary and preventable diseases.

see below. copy paste lang naman. naman. naman

"SEC. 16. Ideal Family Size. – The State shall assist couples, parents and individuals to achieve their desired family size within the context of responsible parenthood for sustainable development and encourage them to have two children as the ideal family size. Attaining the ideal family size is neither mandatory nor compulsory. No punitive action shall be imposed on parents having more than two children."

[B]
Sec. 17. Employers’ Responsibilities. “…provide free delivery of RH care services, supplies and devices to all workers…”

Compels employers to provide for private decisions of employees which have nothing to do with their core business without considering financial situation and religious convictions.

so what?

[B]
Sec. 21. Prohibited Acts, (a) and (b). This concerns health care providers and public officials who fail to deliver RH care services.


(e) Malicious disinformation about the Intent / Provisions of the Act
Though there is respect for the religious conviction of the health care provider, what if she/he cannot get somebody to implement RH care service, will she be penalized?

There is vagueness in the phrase “malicious disinformation” which could impinge on freedom of speech and/or freedom of the press.

Sec. 22. Penalties: 1-6 mos imprisonment, or fine Is this fair and democratic, considering that this
P10,000-P50,000 or both; dismissal from is a family-oriented and God-loving nation?
Government Service if public official.

ikaw nga may freedom of speech kahit kulang kulang ang information mo eh. pero nakulong ka ba?

[falken]

I am a Catholic, but I'm all for R.H. Bill, TAPOS! And the church should stop meddling.

[boybi]

sa susunod, pakipost po yung buong provision na iyong tinutukoy. simple lang copy paste sa PC.

see below. copy paste lang naman. naman. naman

Pati ba naman dito meron dagdag-bawas?!?

[scharnhorst]

*kitsons: I have personally heard and read the lines "don't vote for..." from parishes. You can cite the espoused values of the church again and again, but I know what I heard. And I am sure I am not alone in this forum that have seen such defamatory statements.

I am a Catholic, but I'm all for R.H. Bill, TAPOS! And the church should stop meddling.

Same here.

I quote the world health organization again...

Within the framework of WHO's definition of health as a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being, and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity, reproductive health addresses the reproductive processes, functions and system at all stages of life.Reproductive health, therefore, implies that people are able to have a responsible, satisfying and safe *** life and that they have the capability to reproduce and the freedom to decide if, when and how often to do so.

Implicit in this are the right of men and women to be informed of and to have access to safe, effective, affordable and acceptable methods of fertility regulation of their choice, and the right of access to appropriate health care services that will enable women to go safely through pregnancy and childbirth and provide couples with the best chance of having a healthy infant.

*kitsons: you seem content on skirting the health issues and just say over and over that the chemical contraceptives are carcinogenic.

It's simply not a valid argument. Do you know how many drugs out there are MUCH more carcinogenic or have lethal adverse drug reactions than the combined pill?

Besides. the progestin only pill effectively eliminates the carcinogenic effects of estrogen in the combined pill.


And on ETHICS.

The one who has final say on whether treatment should be given or not, is the RECIPIENT... precisely because it is his or her body, and only if it an informed consent. If there are Filipinos who are in need of reproductive health services, then who would have the gall to deny them this?

[scharnhorst]

By the way.

Abortion services, though illegal are highly sought after, and worryingly, easily available. Usually sa quiapo sila pumupunta... for "hilot"(curettage abortion) and "pamparegla"(misoprostol).

These procedures ARE NOT SAFE and women may die from massive blood loss.

Post-abortion complication cases in the Philippines are not rare occurences. You'd be surprised.

The RH bill will provide services necessary for the care of these women who had undergone such unadvisable procedures.

Would anyone dare to say that we should let these women die?

[Lucius]

[mrpink]

the church shouldn't be worried .. even if this bill is passed .. it's not as if things will change .. majority of the population will have no idea what this bill is all about ..

[marg]

the church shouldn't be worried .. even if this bill is passed .. it's not as if things will change .. majority of the population will have no idea what this bill is all about ..

At least the poor Pinoys will have more access to contraceptives, like they do in Italy. Even the pope does not meddle in politics like they do here.

The catholic church thinks it still the middle ages. Everyone has a right to access all information regarding family planning.

Hoy, kitsons wag kang trying hard mag uber catholic. Kahit mga italiano, hindi kasing kitid ng utak mo. The Italian government sanctions the use of contraceptives and the pope can't do s*#$t about it.

[mrpink]

At least the poor Pinoys will have more access to contraceptives, like they do in Italy.

even if you hand it over .. i have my doubts that people will be using it .. just being a cynical realist ..

[kitsons]

*kitsons: I have personally heard and read the lines "don't vote for..." from parishes. You can cite the espoused values of the church again and again, but I know what I heard. And I am sure I am not alone in this forum that have seen such defamatory statements.




Same here.

I quote the world health organization again...



*kitsons: you seem content on skirting the health issues and just say over and over that the chemical contraceptives are carcinogenic.

It's simply not a valid argument. Do you know how many drugs out there are MUCH more carcinogenic or have lethal adverse drug reactions than the combined pill?

Besides. the progestin only pill effectively eliminates the carcinogenic effects of estrogen in the combined pill.


And on ETHICS.

The one who has final say on whether treatment should be given or not, is the RECIPIENT... precisely because it is his or her body, and only if it an informed consent. If there are Filipinos who are in need of reproductive health services, then who would have the gall to deny them this?

[SIZE=4]Please read the post on the effects of contraceptives by Dr. Acosta.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]It contains the findings of medical researches concerning contraceptives.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=4]As to the question of the Catholic Stand on the matter will post a response that have to copy from another thread in another web group site that am not able to move to and fro due to some technical problems that I cannot simultaneously access my account to pick out the thread. Will post on Catholic Stand response when can as have to go now.

Will post it perhaps tomorrow na as am loaded this day to tonight.[/SIZE]

[scharnhorst]

Please read the post on the effects of contraceptives by Dr. Acosta.

It contains the findings of medical researches concerning contraceptives.

I read your post regarding Dr. Acosta's statements. Good grief, I even have the same books cited.

Have you even read any of my posts? The carcinogenic effects of contraceptives are due to the estrogen (breast, cervical). These are proven by PEER REVIEWED SCIENTIFIC JOURNALS HOWEVER, estrogen also PREVENTS other certain cancers (uterine, ovarian), and these too are PROVEN.

What I'm saying is, if anybody tries to use a KNOWN SIDE EFFECT against the use of a certain drug, then no drug should ever be used in humans, since every single drug (I'm not kidding) carries with it the potential for an adverse drug reaction. (why don't you look up certain drugs you're taking and see how this works)

It's just an extension of NORMAL, physiologic processes known by modern medicine. Estrogen, whether endogenously produced, or exogenously given, stimulates the proliferation of certain cells in the breast and the cervix, that is where the danger of cancer lies. BUT It's not in the same page as anaphylactic reactions and teratogenic drugs. There's a reason why it's FDA approved, and has been on the market for several years.

Take away estrogen and you have the progestin-only pill, which completely eliminates these side effects.

I'm currently studying in the field of medicine, and I am not making up any of those above statements. As far as health is concerned, I have yet to find major chinks in the medical aspects of the RH bill.

If you keep ignoring all the points that I'm saying, and just keep on relying on Dr. Acosta's statement that you have posted, then there is really no point in continuing this discussion.

But really, there's no need to shout. Even if it does seem that almost everyone replying isn't agreeing with you.