Arroyo lies again

[metatron]

let's just face it. we will lie, consciously or subconsciously, to prove ourselves and to save ourselves. hindi naman kahiya-hiya iyon to admit.
i believe it's part of our survival instincts, each and everyone of us.

we all lie. its not something anyone should be proud of. where does the spin end? who do we trust if morals always lose out to "the end justifies the means" philosophy. have we allowed ourselves to become too machiavellian?

ever wondered what's the nature of mother nature? it's all a lie.
analyze carefully, you see paradise, you see green land with flowing rivers and waterfalls, you see lush mountainsides, you see white sands with sky-blue waters ... then you settle for good thinking that it's the safest place you'll ever be. little that you know, that it can kill you no matter where you are.

nature is no lie. it is governed by the simplest and strictest of laws: eat or be eaten. only the strongest, brightest or the luckiest survive. no weaseling out of those rules. no lie can save you from hunger or from the jaws of an equally hungry predator. you see nature the way you want it to be seen. the shimmering azure surface of the ocean can effectively conceal a battleground to those who are not willing to go beyond skin deep.

[oldblue]

do i smell a TROLL? :rofl01:

back to name-calling again sir ... hirap talaga pag-beaten na. but pinakamahirap tanggapin is lying to yourself, lalabas na defense mechanism

[BlueBimmer]

what name calling?

there is one who is guilty? :rofl01:

[BlueBimmer]

hahaha nag-wiki pako out of curiosity... oo nga....

"Please do not feed the troll"

apparently meron ata tinatamaan :rofl01:

[tsupermario]

i bet this thread wouldn't get to 12 pages :popcorn:

[oldblue]

we all lie. its not something anyone should be proud of. where does the spin end? who do we trust if morals always lose out to "the end justifies the means" philosophy. have we allowed ourselves to become too machiavellian?

nature is no lie. it is governed by the simplest and strictest of laws: eat or be eaten. only the strongest, brightest or the luckiest survive. no weaseling out of those rules. no lie can save you from hunger or from the jaws of an equally hungry predator. you see nature the way you want it to be seen. the shimmering azure surface of the ocean can effectively conceal a battleground to those who are not willing to go beyond skin deep.

very nice thoughts sir. finally, new food for the discussion.
i'm delighted to read that you also believe that we all lie.

but I can't quite get your next statements. yes, you agreed that we are all liars in one way or another. are you stating that we should invent "truths" to cover up the painful truth?

[metatron]

very nice thoughts sir. finally, new food for the discussion.
i'm delighted to read that you also believe that we all lie.

but I can't quite get your next statements. yes, you agreed that we are all liars in one way or another. are you stating that we should invent "truths" to cover up the painful truth?

i'm lost sir oldblue. what did i write that made you infer that we should invent truths?

i'm only trying to say that us humans have used deception waaay too much. the truth is a bitter pill to swallow but it should be infinitely more preferable than
sweet lies. we've come so far as a species only to disregard everything we stand for such as laws, society, morals and culture only to save our hides.

going back to arroyo lying, knowing that your politicians are dishing out one lie after another only to further their political ambition makes one's blood curdle. are we actually paying their salaries so that they can shove sugarcoated reality or plain jane audacious lies down our throats? when and where does the distrust stop? looking at the bigger picture, what do we need to hold elections for if the liars "serving the filipino people" are the ones able to manipulate the results in their favor? whose greater good are we taking into consideration here?

[oldblue]

i'm lost sir oldblue. what did i write that made you infer that we should invent truths?

since you pointed out that we all lie and that nature is an eat or be eaten world, I just considered both the painful truth. and so, for the rest of us who wish for trust and order, we have no other option left but to invent "truths" - for us to have morals and to feel safe again. anyway, that's not a major concern naman. I understand now what you meant.

i'm only trying to say that us humans have used deception waaay too much. the truth is a bitter pill to swallow but it should be infinitely more preferable than
sweet lies. we've come so far as a species only to disregard everything we stand for such as laws, society, morals and culture only to save our hides.

going back to arroyo lying, knowing that your politicians are dishing out one lie after another only to further their political ambition makes one's blood curdle. are we actually paying their salaries so that they can shove sugarcoated reality or plain jane audacious lies down our throats? when and where does the distrust stop? looking at the bigger picture, what do we need to hold elections for if the liars "serving the filipino people" are the ones able to manipulate the results in their favor? whose greater good are we taking into consideration here?

what if the court rules today that FVR did cheat Mirriam Santiago in the '92 elections? do you think it would matter? do you think we should stop functioning now and go back to that particular time in history, then correct it in the spirit of the truth? will it be for the greater good?

as much as I would like to believe that elections are for exercising our rights to vote. I believe elections today are just a way to spend unspent govt. money. the good thing about it though is the money gets shared to the people, in terms of buying votes, printing expenses, campaign expenses, food etc. etc...

if we are really serious in elections, noon palang computerized na tayo, since late 90's na.

pero narinig ba natin na nag-clamor for computerization ang opposition? even the militants or the left, wala ata may gusto nyan. the cold hard truth of it all: they all want a share of the pie, that is fund money for the elections. from manual taga-bilang ng boto, to fixers, to influencers etc.etc.. if there is one way to look at it, our election is just one big national fiesta with the govt. as "taya".

tapos babalikan pa natin, sila na lang. i'd rather move on.

[mikmik316]

hay nako... I repeat....

PDNFTT

"Please do not feed the troll"

nyahahahahahahahahahahaha

[metatron]

since you pointed out that we all lie and that nature is an eat or be eaten world, I just considered both the painful truth. and so, for the rest of us who wish for trust and order, we have no other option left but to invent "truths" - for us to have morals and to feel safe again. anyway, that's not a major concern naman. I understand now what you meant.

we now have societal laws that will provide some kind of protection from duplicity. the only problem is too many of us lie to circumvent the system its beginning to undermine the very reason we set up the rules of civility in the first place.

what if the court rules today that FVR did cheat Mirriam Santiago in the '92 elections? do you think it would matter? do you think we should stop functioning now and go back to that particular time in history, then correct it in the spirit of the truth? will it be for the greater good?

as much as I would like to believe that elections are for exercising our rights to vote. I believe elections today are just a way to spend unspent govt. money. the good thing about it though is the money gets shared to the people, in terms of buying votes, printing expenses, campaign expenses, food etc. etc...

if we are really serious in elections, noon palang computerized na tayo, since late 90's na.

pero narinig ba natin na nag-clamor for computerization ang opposition? even the militants or the left, wala ata may gusto nyan. the cold hard truth of it all: they all want a share of the pie, that is fund money for the elections. from manual taga-bilang ng boto, to fixers, to influencers etc.etc.. if there is one way to look at it, our election is just one big national fiesta with the govt. as "taya".

tapos babalikan pa natin, sila na lang. i'd rather move on.

several activist and leftist groups wanted electoral reform and computerization way back when. comelec gave in to the clamor and proceeded with computerization the only way it knows how - fraudulently. kaya nga ibinasura ng SC yung deal with megapacific.

i must admit na wala na talaga tayong babalikan. grave damage has been done not only to our electoral system but also to society's competence in its its leaders. but with the current state of government, what are we to look forward to? more cheating? more lying?

moving on right now is like a cancer patient trying to get on with life without treatment thinking that denying the disease's existence will make her wake up one day all well and cured. the question we should ask ourselves is - do we excise the tumor now and hope for the best or do we just allow the tumor to spread uncontrollably and move on?

all this really wouldn't matter too much to me if it weren't for my children's future. malapit na tayo sa point kung saan kapag gumawa ng masama ang anak mo puwede mo nang sabihing "anak wag kang magalala. yung mga pulitiko natin nandadaya at nagnanakaw pero di nahuhuli. baka tayo makalusot din." ayos!

happy new year to all! time to open the bubblies (pop) and inspired spirits (tanduay) and engage in cirrhotic merry making.

[oldblue]

several activist and leftist groups wanted electoral reform and computerization way back when. comelec gave in to the clamor and proceeded with computerization the only way it knows how - fraudulently. kaya nga ibinasura ng SC yung deal with megapacific.

I have monitored 2 elections na. one in '98 and one in 2k4. in both cases, the comelec already purchased the billions of pesos worth of computerization equipments. both cases, also on the last minute, hindi pinayagan gamitin from a court order or whatever. then after the elections, binebenta.

so here's how it goes, whenever there is an election, (1) they purchase billions worth of computerization equipments, "anomalously". (2) then they resort back to manual counting which again requires another billion (3) then after the elections, they "anomalously" resell the brand new unused computer equipments. instead na one-time allotment of funds for elections, naging 2 na plus bonus of the returns of the sale and all these backed up by law and court orders.

of course, like every allotted budget, syempre kulang yan. sa Pilipinas na lang nangyayari ang 1 month counting of ballots. unlike sa ibang bansa, the next day alam mo na. with all these happening under our watchful eyes, siguro nga we should just accept this as the "truth" of Philippine elections. The good thing about it na lang, money flowed around and everybody's happy. instead of the boring & "unfestive" atmosphere of computerized elections

i must admit na wala na talaga tayong babalikan. grave damage has been done not only to our electoral system but also to society's competence in its its leaders. but with the current state of government, what are we to look forward to? more cheating? more lying?

moving on right now is like a cancer patient trying to get on with life without treatment thinking that denying the disease's existence will make her wake up one day all well and cured. the question we should ask ourselves is - do we excise the tumor now and hope for the best or do we just allow the tumor to spread uncontrollably and move on?

how can we excise a tumor if everybody's in on it? -> the opposition, the administration, probably the right and the left too. this is one big show of principles (pro) vs. principles (con) vs. "enlightened view" (neutral) but the hidden agenda is how to extract and hot to get a share of the money legally from govt. election funds. baka kasi nakakalimutan na natin na si Garci played both (or all?) sides of the fence.

all this really wouldn't matter too much to me if it weren't for my children's future. malapit na tayo sa point kung saan kapag gumawa ng masama ang anak mo puwede mo nang sabihing "anak wag kang magalala. yung mga pulitiko natin nandadaya at nagnanakaw pero di nahuhuli. baka tayo makalusot din." ayos!

pardon my language & my pov sir, but all these future generation talk is all crap for me. no matter how you guard your child from the bad elements of society, he/she will find a way to explore the other side, with or without your guidance. the greatest teacher of all is experience, then the child or young adult chooses his/her path in life. we humans are a self-serving society who only cares about our own lifetime. you wanna know why this is so?

there had been a survey once, on what will you do if a "doomsday scenario" asteroid/heavenly object hits our planet? the primary collective concern was, will it hit during their respective lifetimes?

the next generation has no choice but to take care of itself kasi hindi naman nababawasan ang utang ng gobyerno. kung noon panahon ni marcos, millions of dollars ang utang, si cory billions, and at present, trillions and still borrowing, that trend alone explains that the previous generation dont give a rat's ass about our future.

[GlennSter]

ok mejo lumalayo na kayo sa original post.
nabalita na at nakapagpalitan na ng mga opinyon.

so tama na.