PHUV, Inc.

[jpdm]

You forget...

Would you want to produce and dispose of toxic waste from making and disposing lead-acid batteries. And those plastic resin body shells also require some liters of old dinosaur to manufacture them as well..

You forget,

Greenpeace (the main proponent) know very well this lead acid batteries and toxic waste you are talking about. I think they even have more first hand information through their numerous papers about this than you do with all due respect.

That old jeepney can be as clean or even cleaner if you just use appropriate tech like converting the surplus diesel engine to a refurbished gasoline engine with Auto-LPG conversion kit. What you end up is a jeepney that have emissions to meet and beat the clean air requirements for cars.

Hmmm..how come the government did not think about this?

How the government opted with CNG?

Besides, how come i dont see jeepneys, AUVs, Fxs converted to auto-LPG? If it is viable, how come there is no mad scramble for LPG kits?

The plus side, no need to have new infrastructure set up like a battery charging station. Heck! ... where does the electricity to charge the batteries come from anyway? Oil and coal burning powerplants, that's where.

So where does LPG come (how do you extract it or process it) from anyway? straight from the ground without using energy also?

So you argue, "solar!"...

Yes, solar can be used BUT it is pricey and you need a very big (read: very expensive) solar array to charge a single e-jeepney's battery pack. How do you charge the other battery packs then?

How about powerplants using biogas (for the Bacolod e-phuv), biomass, hydroelectric, wind etc.

With regular jeepneys running on Auto-LPG, you don't need to setup new facilities since it's already there servicing taxi cabs and private cars as well. Given LPG is cheaper than gasoline and diesel, it pays for itself in fuel cost savings.

Are you going to refit discrepit jeepneys or huge, inefficient and brontosaurus size jeepneys with LPG fed gasoline engines?

[quote]

Like I said, conversion to using a petrol engine converted to Auto-LPG would make those existing jeepneys clean and green. Probably even greener and economically self-viable if you consider the entire scope of the project and NOT the short sighted vision that have plagued every so-called government sponsored environmental projects from the past to today.

Again, I doubt.

Anyway, your idea was endorsed by the Arroyo based on this article:

Arroyo announces P1-B fund for fuel efficient PUVs
Transport group focusing on conversion to LPG
By Abigail Kwok
INQUIRER.net
First Posted 15:10:00 06/16/2008

Filed Under: Oil & Gas - Downstream activities, Road Transport, Transport

MANILA, Philippines – (UPDATE 3) The Land Transportation and Franchising Regulatory Board (LTFRB) launched Monday fuel efficient public utility vehicles that sought to save on fuel while increasing drivers' income.


During the 21st anniversary of the LTFRB, President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo announced the release of the P1 billion fund from the “Katas ng VAT” for PUV drivers to enable them to convert their diesel engines to liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) or compressed natural gas engines.


At the same time, she acknowledged the high cost of converting engines.
“Ngayon abot sa P200,000 ang kailangan kung magpapalit ng makina. Aabot ng P70,000 kung bibili ng conversion kit at aabot sa P550,000 kung bibili ng bagong jeepney na gumagamit na ng [COLOR=blue ! important][COLOR=blue ! important]alternative [COLOR=blue ! important]fuels[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]
.



Kaya tutulungan kayo ng pamahalaan [Now, the cost of changing engines can reach P200,000. A conversion kit can cost P70,000 and a new jeepney that uses alternative fuel can cost P550,000. So the administration will help you],” she said.


Those who would like to avail this benefit will just have to go to any Development Bank of the Philippines and Postal Bank to apply.
Arroyo added that drivers could pay without interest P80 a day for two years.


LTFRB chairman Thompson Lantion said the initial project would allow drivers to convert their engines to run on 70% diesel and 30% LPG. Arroyo said the target would be to convert the engines initially of 10,000 PUVs.


Lantion said that as of now, 20 jeepneys and 10,000 taxis were running on a mix of diesel and natural gas.Riza Olchondria, Philippine Daily Inquirer

What happen to this?

[ghosthunter]

Correct.
It more viable in the long term and communities will benefit compared with those expensive fossil fuels using all-imported technology.

Yet you fail to see that is already in front of your face.

The same technology used for Auto-LPG can be re-tooled to use methane produced by garbage heaps, bio-reactors, etc.

Why limit ourselves with expensive & often limited "green" technology when there are cheaper and more effective existing technology already available.

You seem to be deluded in the fact that we don't have the market to sustain such technology transfer programs to become economically viable.

[jpdm]

Yet the taxis are benefitting from cheap Auto-LPG for a few years already and that is without any government dole outs.

Cite the school.

Ask Romski123

But the point is, is that 60% local stuff critical parts? No! Don't argue percentages when the critical components are still all imported.

It's just like arguing the percentage of a locally built bus. It might be 80% local but it's critical parts are still all imported.

Still local parts no matter how insignificant.Point is, you are using local material, technology and labor. Which means local employment and income.

And what about these Toyotas, Mitsubishis, Hyundais, Kias...all-imported, what benefits our local economy get? Or plain and simple drain to our national coffers?

So what is beneficial for you?

Well, buying and properly applying the correct technology like Auto-LPG kits can lead to better solutions that are self-sustaining and socially beneficial like public transport that can be both cheap for the riding public yet profitable for the operator.

Where will you get the kits? All-imported again? How much? Who will pay? barely earning jeepney drivers?

Government subsidy? Where will the government get the money?Saddled with 4.3 trillion peso debt caused by a yearly 8-11 billion trade deficits due to massive importation, where will the government get the foreign exchange to import again auto lpg kits?

What is the point of trying to be "green" or "locally-made" when it is not economically feasible to be self-sustaining?

The question is what is the point of trying to be "green" if its not economically feasible to be self-sustaining if you just come up with another idea of importing again kits neither a lowly jeepney driver nor the government ca afford?

Is that your idea of self-sustaining?

How about the maintenance of this? Import spareparts again? Imports subjected to foreign exchange fluctuations ?

In the long run, going local is better. More local materials, technology and labor, more employment and income.. and greener environment..

You are citing countries with populations that can sustain such enterprises into technology transfer.

How about Malaysia?

Our population is bigger than Malaysia.

Unfortunately the Philippine experience in such ventures of so-called "technology transfer" is nothing more than simply a bust. Our car companies are nothing more than assembly plants for parts shipped from abroad. Most critical parts (like engines) are still made elsewhere as it was for decades.

Thats correct.

So want do you want. Remain like this? A perpetual importer of vehicles?

You are also confirming the fact that we can never get anything from this car companies including technology transfer. They are only after our income and foreign exchange and nothing more.

Why not start now, perhaps in 10, 20, 30, 40 years we can build our own locally made vehicle.

Its an embarassment for a country supposedly predicted by international agencies that we are among the emerging 11 countries in the future without a respectable auto industry.

Why not start from this vehicle you incessantly berating?

In the end, if we can master this technology, we might graduate from just making this ee jeepneys.

[ghosthunter]

You forget,

Greenpeace (the main proponent) know very well this lead acid batteries and toxic waste you are talking about. I think they even have more first hand information through their numerous papers about this than you do with all due respect.

Knowing and actually using it in society are two very different things.

Hmmm..how come the government did not think about this?

Our government is a short sighted pig. It only sees what is obvious and where financial kickbacks can be done.

How the government opted with CNG?

The government opted with CNG buses simply to "promote" the NG gas field. Yet it failed to mention that a major percentage of the production goes abroad. Guess who benefits from that?

Besides, how come i dont see jeepneys, AUVs, Fxs converted to auto-LPG? If it is viable, how come there is no mad scramble for LPG kits?

You have probably seen more AUV/FXs running on Auto-LPG than you think.

Its not as if they have to be a rolling billboard saying they are Auto-LPG fueled like those e-jeeps. These vehicles are just the same from the outside and inside as well except for the LPG tank which is hidden under a weirdly proportioned bench seat inside the rear passenger cabin.

Given I refuel my car on LPG, I have spent time at Auto-LPG stations. I have chatted with many drivers of AUV/FX. I also have seen their vehicles as well as many of them are proud to show off their setups to me with the smallest of requests.

So where does LPG come (how do you extract it or process it) from anyway? straight from the ground without using energy also?

Yes it does come out of the gorund but it is a by-product which was normally flared off because it was not economically viable before to transport and sell it.

By creating a bigger market for it, LPG is now used to do something instead of simply being burned off by flaring at the oil wells.

How about powerplants using biogas (for the Bacolod e-phuv), biomass, hydroelectric, wind etc.

Wind? In Metro Manila?

Massive hydro-electric power stations destroys the environment it is built at. Micro hydroelectric generators are only good for powering basic lighting & low power stuff. And they are limited to certain locations as well.

Biomass/Biogas... great if you have the organic matter and space to produce enough of it for the long term.

Are you going to refit discrepit jeepneys or huge, inefficient and brontosaurus size jeepneys with LPG fed gasoline engines?

Are you going to give away enough e-jeeps and to replace all those existing jeepneys? Are you going to install enough "green" power generators to power all those recharging stations, financed all by Greenpeace?

Of course not! ... No one is that stupid, right? Give them an alternative and let the market sort itself out. Producing an option for public transport that can run on cheaper and cleaner fuels can be done right now. All it just needs is someone to show them how to connect the two dots.

Anyway, your idea was endorsed by the Arroyo based on this article:
What happen to this?

Simple. It was government funded.

[jpdm]

Yet you fail to see that is already in front of your face.

The same technology used for Auto-LPG can be re-tooled to use methane produced by garbage heaps, bio-reactors, etc.

Why limit ourselves with expensive & often limited "green" technology when there are cheaper and more effective existing technology already available.

You seem to be deluded in the fact that we don't have the market to sustain such technology transfer programs to become economically viable.

Yet you fail to see that is already in front of your face is that the idea of auto -LPG running jeepneys never materialized or will mostly fail.

Now, if you think auto LPG using the same technology can be retooled to use methane, how come I dont hear anything about this?

Or your are just deluded by the fact that if it will work with cars it will work with jeepneys?

Who said that there is a market right now to sustain technology transfer programs to become economically viable? Maybe you are, pardon me quite deluded about this assumption.

I keep on saying maybe, in the future. But right now, its to early to tell.

[ghosthunter]

Ask Romski123

You mentioned it so I am asking you.

Still local parts no matter how insignificant.Point is, you are using local material, technology and labor. Which means local employment and income.

But the point is to get critical technology to produce our own vehicles. What is the point in trying to do "technology transfer" when you dont get to produce the critical components?

And what about these Toyotas, Mitsubishis, Hyundais, Kias...all-imported, what benefits our local economy get? Or plain and simple drain to our national coffers?

So what is beneficial for you?

Beneficial is if we can get production of critical components within the country. This means the production will not be limited for local consumption but also for export as well so it can be done on a scale that will be economically viable.

Where will you get the kits? All-imported again? How much? Who will pay? barely earning jeepney drivers?

If those same jeepney drivers somehow bought those jeepneys they are driving... they can somehow afford to buy kits that are proven to improve their income.

Government subsidy? Where will the government get the money?Saddled with 4.3 trillion peso debt caused by a yearly 8-11 billion trade deficits due to massive importation, where will the government get the foreign exchange to import again auto lpg kits?

Where and when have I given you the idea of asking the government for help?

The question is what is the point of trying to be "green" if its not economically feasible to be self-sustaining if you just come up with another idea of importing again kits neither a lowly jeepney driver nor the government ca afford?

Is that your idea of self-sustaining?

How about the maintenance of this? Import spareparts again? Imports subjected to foreign exchange fluctuations ?

I would say the same thing about your e-jeepney where the critical components are all imported as well. Where you going to buy those replacement parts and expensive controller electronics? its not that the local surplus shops would have parts for it.

In the long run, going local is better. More local materials, technology and labor, more employment and income.. and greener environment..

And yet without the ability to produce the critical components, you are still stuck with importing them. If you stick with local, your idea of the e-jeepney will literally grind to a halt.

How about Malaysia?

Our population is bigger than Malaysia.

Yes, our population that lives below the poverty level is bigger than Malaysia.

Also Malaysia imposed a strong protectionist policy to make it's local auto industry viable as well as government financial infusion to the malaysian car industry to produce it's own cars.

And of course today Malaysia exports its cars to other countries like UK, Australia and Singapore.

So want do you want. Remain like this? A perpetual importer of vehicles?

Why not? Being self-sufficient doesn't mean we have to produce everything within our borders. It just means we need enough trade of goods. Why force ourselves to do something we cannot sustain when there are other areas where the country can do better and benefit more people directly?

We used to export rice decades ago. Why not get back to that instead? Export rice and import vehicles?

You are also confirming the fact that we can never get anything from this car companies including technology transfer. They are only after our income and foreign exchange and nothing more.

And how many cars does the local car industry sell as a whole? In 2008, that is just under 125,000 units total.

Compare that to the 5M cars sold in China and 13M cars in the US in the same year.

Why not start now, perhaps in 10, 20, 30, 40 years we can build our own locally made vehicle.

And how many of the 125,000 annual cars sold would those be?

Its an embarassment for a country supposedly predicted by international agencies that we are among the emerging 11 countries in the future without a respectable auto industry.

So what? ... having a local auto industry is a measure for you?

I find it more embarrassing that the Philippines is importing rice when the country was one of the biggest exporters of rices decades ago.

Now that is more embarrassing.

Why not start from this vehicle you incessantly berating?

Honestly from all you have said, I dont see the PHUV getting any more ground in its development than when it first started.

In the end, if we can master this technology, we might graduate from just making this ee jeepneys.

Making electric cars is easy enough. Making it viable as a dependable and affordable transport is the hard part. Even first world countries are having problems adapting it beyond a few private individuals who would take pains to adjust their lives around the "green" tech.

[jpdm]

Knowing and actually using it in society are two very different things.

Really, now. Why not tell that to Greenpeace. let see what you are talking about.

Our government is a short sighted pig. It only sees what is obvious and where financial kickbacks can be done.

kickbacks? Are you sure? where will you get this LPG?
importation. where will the government get the CNG? local. Coorect me if Im wrong. Where will you get the best kickback? importation or local procurement?

The government opted with CNG buses simply to "promote" the NG gas field. Yet it failed to mention that a major percentage of the production goes abroad. Guess who benefits from that?

Because Shell failed to expand the so-called mother-daughter whatever CNG infrastructure. So without this, not to waste Ng, they shipped it abroad.

Just to update you.

Singapore's Callandra to invest $160 million in CNG project in RP

By Donnabelle L. Gatdula
(The Philippine Star)
Updated August 27, 2009 12:00 AM

MANILA, Philippines - Callandra Liquefied CNG Fuels Corp. will invest about $160 million for its compressed natural gas projects in the Philippines, a top company official said.


Company president Randall Antonio said they are holding talks with various banks to raise 70 percent of the planned investment.


He said the remaining 30 percent will be infused by Callandra investors, composed of investment houses based in London and the United States. Callandra’s holding firm is based in Singapore.The investment would cover the establishment of six CNG refilling stations and a processing plant, he pointed out.Antonio said this project will be implemented three phases. The first phase is expected to be completed in mid-2010 with the company serving 2,000 CNG buses. The second phase will involve 3,500 buses and is expected to be completed by 2012.By 2014, the project is expected to be in full commercial operation involving 5,000 CNG buses.

You have probably seen more AUV/FXs running on Auto-LPG than you think.

Its not as if they have to be a rolling billboard saying they are Auto-LPG fueled like those e-jeeps. These vehicles are just the same from the outside and inside as well except for the LPG tank which is hidden under a weirdly proportioned bench seat inside the rear passenger cabin.

Yeah right.

hmmm..So you monitor all of this vehicles?

How come I have seen alot of jeepneys, auvs and vans filling up diesel instead of auto lpg? Rarely do I see these type of vehicles lining up in stations with auto lpg.

Given I refuel my car on LPG, I have spent time at Auto-LPG stations. I have chatted with many drivers of AUV/FX. I also have seen their vehicles as well as many of them are proud to show off their setups to me with the smallest of requests.

So, you got your data from gas stations with auto lpg where you refuel your car? Obviously, you can easily talk to drivers with auv-fx powered by LPG.

Now, how many are these? how many stations with selling auto-lpg?

Yes it does come out of the gorund but it is a by-product which was normally flared off because it was not economically viable before to transport and sell it.

Point is you still utilize energy.

By creating a bigger market for it, LPG is now used to do something instead of simply being burned off by flaring at the oil wells.

Hmmm..how about for cooking gas instead of fuel just run cars or jeepneys? I think its better to use lpg for cooking.

Wind? In Metro Manila?

Umm..why manila? and whpo said manila? Definitely you.

Do you know the function of Meralco or the functions of power distributors?

Massive hydro-electric power stations destroys the environment it is built at. Micro hydroelectric generators are only good for powering basic lighting & low power stuff. And they are limited to certain locations as well.

Sure?

And by the way, who said massive hydroelectric or micro hydroelectric power stations?

The point is hydroelectric power station can be a source of electricity.

Biomass/Biogas... great if you have the organic matter and space to produce enough of it for the long term.

Well, why not ask those guys who proposed the biogas station. maybe they have come up with a very good plan. I rather rely on those people instead of your opinions.

Are you going to give away enough e-jeeps and to replace all those existing jeepneys? Are you going to install enough "green" power generators to power all those recharging stations, financed all by Greenpeace?

Perhaps Greenpeace might have that plan. Im not sure.

How about you, are you sure of what might happen in the future?

Of course not! ... No one is that stupid, right? Give them an alternative and let the market sort itself out. Producing an option for public transport that can run on cheaper and cleaner fuels can be done right now. All it just needs is someone to show them how to connect the two dots.

Well, who came up with that stupid idea. I think its not Greenpeace unless you have with you their documents about their program re: e-jeepneys

So, where is your so-called dots? Is it viable?

Simple. It was government funded.

hmm..

[ghosthunter]

Yet you fail to see that is already in front of your face is that the idea of auto -LPG running jeepneys never materialized or will mostly fail.

Now, if you think auto LPG using the same technology can be retooled to use methane, how come I dont hear anything about this?

And this is coming from the same person who failed to notice the numbers of Auto-LPG fueled AUV/FX vehicles on the road?

Anyway, it doesn't take a genius to see the compatibility of methane for use in standard internal combustion engines.

Or your are just deluded by the fact that if it will work with cars it will work with jeepneys?

So speaks the one deluded by the e-jeepney.

But the fact is, it is simpler for a jeepney to use Auto-LPG than for you to sustain the e-jeepney concept on a 100% green level. That doesn't even include the fact that critical components aren't even locally made.

Who said that there is a market right now to sustain technology transfer programs to become economically viable? Maybe you are, pardon me quite deluded about this assumption.

Er... haven't I been saying that tech-transfer programs never worked in the Philippines. So you are agreeing with me on this point?

I keep on saying maybe, in the future. But right now, its to early to tell.

Keep saying that, maybe when you remove those rose tinted glasses you are wearing, you will see the world as it truly is.

[jpdm]

You mentioned it so I am asking you.

De La Salle University-Dasmarinas

But the point is to get critical technology to produce our own vehicles. What is the point in trying to do "technology transfer" when you dont get to produce the critical components?Beneficial is if we can get production of critical components within the country. This means the production will not be limited for local consumption but also for export as well so it can be done on a scale that will be economically viable.

When shall we start?How do we start?How did China started with their vehicle industry?How about Malaysia and their Mitsubishi clone Protons and Daihatsu clone Peroduas?

Cant we let our local industry start again with the PHUVs? And perhaps, in 10-50 or even 100 years we can build our own low tech diesel, gasoline and electric engines?

At least we are giving a chance to our auto designers, mechanical engineers, IT engineers, metallurgical engineers a reason to work in this country instead of going out and perhaps a future?

Instead of these engineering as mere salesmen and agents of foreign car manufacturers?

If those same jeepney drivers somehow bought those jeepneys they are driving... they can somehow afford to buy kits that are proven to improve their income.

Tell that to the thousands if not millions of jeepney drivers,operators and owners who barely meet their boundaries and expenses.

Besides, if thse auto-lpg is indeed viable, with Gloria offering billion pesos for the conversion of jeepneys, how come few availed?

Where and when have I given you the idea of asking the government for help?

Because you keep on mentioning the government. And who will finance such huge cost of converting to auto lpg?

I would say the same thing about your e-jeepney where the critical components are all imported as well. Where you going to buy those replacement parts and expensive controller electronics? its not that the local surplus shops would have parts for it.

Again, if given the chance, who knows MVPMAP and PHUV, Inc. of Romski can eventually produced the critical components in the immediate future?
Dont you have trust with local engineering capabilities of Pinoys?

And yet without the ability to produce the critical components, you are still stuck with importing them. If you stick with local, your idea of the e-jeepney will literally grind to a halt.

Disagree.

Yes, our population that lives below the poverty level is bigger than Malaysia.

How come? Because we import everything? So whats the source of livelihood of millions of Pinoys?

Who has income, a fracton of the Philippine population. How do you jumpstart the income of millions of Pinoys? Gie them jobs by making them productive and buying local produce.

Also Malaysia imposed a strong protectionist policy to make it's local auto industry viable as well as government financial infusion to the malaysian car industry to produce it's own cars.

Thats the point, how come we cant do this here? Every attempt to come up with a local vehicle is immediately shot down. How come Malaysia nurtured Proton and Perodua with a very small population compared to us?

And of course today Malaysia exports its cars to other countries like UK, Australia and Singapore.

We used to export the mini land cruiser of Delta motors of Silverio. We have a striving AUV industry in the 1990s with Anfra selling 60,000 units at its peak. tels me, in the future, if not now, we can do it again. We are racing to 100 million by 2015.

Why not? Being self-sufficient doesn't mean we have to produce everything within our borders. It just means we need enough trade of goods. Why force ourselves to do something we cannot sustain when there are other areas where the country can do better and benefit more people directly?

Of course.

But importing everything? maybe you need to check you economic history

We used to export rice decades ago. Why not get back to that instead? Export rice and import vehicles?

Why not export rice and build our own vehicles (not necessary Filipino brand)? So that we are not dependent on the supplies of other countries?

And how many cars does the local car industry sell as a whole? In 2008, that is just under 125,000 units total.Compare that to the 5M cars sold in China and 13M cars in the US in the same year.

How many cars sold in China when they were just starting?

We are not even starting.

And how many of the 125,000 annual cars sold would those be?

You are fixed with the present.

So what? ... having a local auto industry is a measure for you?

Of course!

I find it more embarrassing that the Philippines is importing rice when the country was one of the biggest exporters of rices decades ago.

Now that is more embarrassing.

Who said this is not embarassing?

Honestly from all you have said, I dont see the PHUV getting any more ground in its development than when it first started.

Is this with certitude? I guess not.

Merely an opinion, right?

Making electric cars is easy enough. Making it viable as a dependable and affordable transport is the hard part. Even first world countries are having problems adapting it beyond a few private individuals who would take pains to adjust their lives around the "green" tech.

Well, thats your opinion.

I think otherwise.

[jpdm]

Keep saying that, maybe when you remove those rose tinted glasses you are wearing, you will see the world as it truly is.

No. Why not you remove those your smoke and oil tainted glasses you are wearing so that you can see a brighter future for this country and the world

[ghosthunter]

kickbacks? Are you sure? where will you get this LPG?
importation. where will the government get the CNG? local. Coorect me if Im wrong. Where will you get the best kickback? importation or local procurement?

Our corrupt pig of a government gets a kickback in all transactions. It doesn't matter if its big or small.

Why export something that can be used locally? ... isn't it more green to use something local? And since NG burns clean, why are we exporting it instead of using it for our benefit?

Because Shell failed to expand the so-called mother-daughter whatever CNG infrastructure. So without this, not to waste Ng, they shipped it abroad.

Yeah, shipping it abroad makes more financial sense, NOT!

The same fuel could have been used locally to fire up electric power stations. Yet here we are using imported fuels.

hmmm..So you monitor all of this vehicles?

How come I have seen alot of jeepneys, auvs and vans filling up diesel instead of auto lpg? Rarely do I see these type of vehicles lining up in stations with auto lpg.

And how long do YOU spend observing the vehicles going in and out of an Auto-LPG refueling station?

At least I go there on a regular basis. How about you?

So, you got your data from gas stations with auto lpg where you refuel your car? Obviously, you can easily talk to drivers with auv-fx powered by LPG.

Now, how many are these? how many stations with selling auto-lpg?

Here's the un-updated list of Auto-LPG stations in Metro Manila.

http://tsikot.yehey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50159

Point is you still utilize energy.

And the point is that your e-jeepney uses electricity generated by burning fossil fuel.

Yes yes... it "could" be powered by "green" sources but that is not today.

Hmmm..how about for cooking gas instead of fuel just run cars or jeepneys? I think its better to use lpg for cooking.

That view is simply like a horse wearing blinders. Too narrow a viewpoint restricts your own ability to be flexible. Ironic for someone trying to be the champion of "green" technology.

Do you know the function of Meralco or the functions of power distributors?

Power distribution. But they don't generate it.

And by the way, who said massive hydroelectric or micro hydroelectric power stations?

The point is hydroelectric power station can be a source of electricity.

Duh?... Any hydroelectric power station that is big enough to generate power for a community will have an environmental impact either by water diversion or changes in the local eco system.

Why do you think there is so much "green" protest whenever a new hydro-electric power station is proposed anywhere in the globe today?

How about you, are you sure of what might happen in the future?

I don't control the future. But I can see where it is leading based on where we have been.

[ghosthunter]

No. Why not you remove those your smoke and oil tainted glasses you are wearing so that you can see a brighter future for this country and the world

Sorry to say but I don't wear any glasses and see reality of the past, present and future with 20/20 vision.

[ghosthunter]

De La Salle University-Dasmarinas

See?... was it that hard to mention it yourself?

When shall we start?How do we start?How did China started with their vehicle industry?How about Malaysia and their Mitsubishi clone Protons and Daihatsu clone Peroduas?

Cant we let our local industry start again with the PHUVs? And perhaps, in 10-50 or even 100 years we can build our own low tech diesel, gasoline and electric engines?

It is helpful if the government is backed up by income derived from oil.

It is also more helpful if we have a government that is not weak kneed to protect it's own local industries. Unfortunately our government owns a lot to other countries who in-turn pull on our purse strings to get trade advantages.

At least we are giving a chance to our auto designers, mechanical engineers, IT engineers, metallurgical engineers a reason to work in this country instead of going out and perhaps a future?

y..e..a..h... and maybe if they can get paid in the same amount as if they worked in another country.

Instead of these engineering as mere salesmen and agents of foreign car manufacturers?

If it pays your salary, why argue?

Wouldn't that be better than being a maid in a foreign country?

Tell that to the thousands if not millions of jeepney drivers,operators and owners who barely meet their boundaries and expenses.

And your saying that the e-jeep would solve all their income problems? I dont think so.

Besides, if thse auto-lpg is indeed viable, with Gloria offering billion pesos for the conversion of jeepneys, how come few availed?

Is that your observation again?

Because you keep on mentioning the government. And who will finance such huge cost of converting to auto lpg?

Owners themselves. Conversion to Auto-LPG is cheaper and has a shorter ROI than buying a new vehicle that requires a totally new infrastructure to become feasible.

So who's going to spend on building the electric charging stations for the e-jeeps?

Again, if given the chance, who knows MVPMAP and PHUV, Inc. of Romski can eventually produced the critical components in the immediate future?
Dont you have trust with local engineering capabilities of Pinoys?

We have had decades, yet we have nothing to show for it.

How come? Because we import everything? So whats the source of livelihood of millions of Pinoys?

We all work for someone else. Is that so bad?

Who has income, a fracton of the Philippine population. How do you jumpstart the income of millions of Pinoys? Gie them jobs by making them productive and buying local produce.

Wow! and the PHUV program will employ millions on pinoys. Yeah right. It would be lucky if it would put 100 people to work.

Thats the point, how come we cant do this here? Every attempt to come up with a local vehicle is immediately shot down. How come Malaysia nurtured Proton and Perodua with a very small population compared to us?

Because it's middle class has more buying power than the middle class we have here. Why do you think there is a sudden boom in people owning scooters and motorcycles in recent years? Yet all they can afford is a motorcycle and not a car.

In that thought, maybe you should target making a locally designed and produced motorcycle or scooter before moving to cars.

We used to export the mini land cruiser of Delta motors of Silverio. We have a striving AUV industry in the 1990s with Anfra selling 60,000 units at its peak. tels me, in the future, if not now, we can do it again. We are racing to 100 million by 2015.

100 million with a vast majority living under the poverty line. Where the middle class cannot afford to buy a brand new car and have to rely on pre-owned cars if they want to own a vehicle.

But importing everything? maybe you need to check you economic history

Maybe you should check REALITY. The philippines basically imports everything these days.

Why not export rice and build our own vehicles (not necessary Filipino brand)? So that we are not dependent on the supplies of other countries?

Why not just start exporting rice first before moving on to exporting cars.

How many cars sold in China when they were just starting?

Automobile Production in China:
Year Production (in million units)
1992 1.0
1999 1.2
2000 2.07
2001 2.33
2002 3.25
2003 4.44
2004 5.07
2005 5.71
2006 7.28
2007 8.88
2008 9.35

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automob...ustry_in_China

We are not even starting.

We can't even sell a quarter million cars.

You are fixed with the present.

And you are stuck dreaming of a future that have no footing in the past nor present.

[jpdm]

Sorry to say but I don't wear any glasses and see reality of the past, present and future with 20/20 vision.

You should wear one. I suggest. because, you only see what you want to see.

With 20/20 vision? I doubt. You are stuck with the present, dont know the past and the negativity and pessimism you consistently showed in this thread magnify your idea of a dark future.

[jpdm]

See?... was it that hard to mention it yourself?

So?Whats your problem?

It is helpful if the government is backed up by income derived from oil.

You are talking about VAT? Whats that got to do with e-jeepneys?

It is also more helpful if we have a government that is not weak kneed to protect it's own local industries.

Really now.

You saying this? in your previous post you just said, its ok for the country to perpetually import everything.

Unfortunately our government owns a lot to other countries who in-turn pull on our purse strings to get trade advantages.

Simply because we dont have industrial nor agricultural capacity to produce our own goods and services for our needs. You mentioned rice (export)for vehicles (import). Our imports are more expensive than our exports. Thats why we always incur massive trade deficits (8 billion dollars last year)


y..e..a..h... and maybe if they can get paid in the same amount as if they worked in another country.

yeah, as if all engineers in the Philippines can work abroad.

If it pays your salary, why argue?

Wouldn't that be better than being a maid in a foreign country?

Do you think all auto salesmen are paid handsomely?

Will an engineering grad from DLSU go abroad as maid? Go figure.

And your saying that the e-jeep would solve all their income problems? I dont think so.

Who said that the e-jeepney would solve all their income problems?

Is that your observation again?

I stand corrected if you can give me hard data.

Owners themselves. Conversion to Auto-LPG is cheaper and has a shorter ROI than buying a new vehicle that requires a totally new infrastructure to become feasible.

Have you also interviewed those thousands ( jeepney associations) who did not convert to auto-lpg?

So who's going to spend on building the electric charging stations for the e-jeeps?

Make a guess.

We have had decades, yet we have nothing to show for it.

Umm..decades? The e-jeepney was just launched late last year.

We all work for someone else. Is that so bad?

What do you think?

Wow! and the PHUV program will employ millions on pinoys. Yeah right. It would be lucky if it would put 100 people to work.

Wow! Who said the PHUv program will employ millions of pinoys? You.
I guess, you have to read again (should I read it for you to
understand) my statement before coming up with this out of ths world statement.

Because it's middle class has more buying power than the middle class we have here. Why do you think there is a sudden boom in people owning scooters and motorcycles in recent years? Yet all they can afford is a motorcycle and not a car.

Or they brought down the prices of their Proton and Perodua( with government incentives)that is affordable to their middle class?

In that thought, maybe you should target making a locally designed and produced motorcycle or scooter before moving to cars.

Probably.

100 million with a vast majority living under the poverty line. Where the middle class cannot afford to buy a brand new car and have to rely on pre-owned cars if they want to own a vehicle.

Do you think, this situation will last?

Maybe you should check REALITY. The Philippines basically imports everything these days.

Thats the sad part.

Again, you are stuck with your dark present world. With no chance of changing.

Let me remind you of the saying...there is no permanent things in this world but change.

And thats the REALITY.

So, this gloomy reality of yours can be reversed, right? Or you are just so hopelessly pessimistic?

Why not just start exporting rice first before moving on to exporting cars.

Umm...reality check....Why should we start exporting rice (which we import), if we are already exporting cars (Ford)?

Well, who is dreaming now...

Automobile Production in China:
Year Production (in million units)
1992 1.0
1999 1.2
2000 2.07
2001 2.33
2002 3.25
2003 4.44
2004 5.07
2005 5.71
2006 7.28
2007 8.88
2008 9.35

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automob...ustry_in_China

We can't even sell a quarter million cars.

Whats you point?

And you are stuck dreaming of a future that have no footing in the past nor present.

No footing? And where do you base your assumptions also? From your negativity and pessimistic past, present and future.

At least, I dream. But I can easily go back to reality. How about you, stuck in your gloomy point view of view, utter pessimism and your own dark future world?

Anyway,

Actually, the PHUV program is already here. Its the reality. Again, makati, and bacolod bought these e-jeepneys.

Im hoping I can in my own way drum up support.

What is wrong with supporting a local endeavor? You talk about benefits yet you keep on hitting local projects like e-PHUV?

Can you say something positive for a change?

I think this is better compared to what you are doing especially in this thread.. And its called crab mentality.

Anyway,

The thing is, a group of Pinoys started something without any support from the government. What Im doing is just highlighting their efforts and so that I can encourage them (in my own small way) not to give up.

Is that wrong for you?

Will it be alright to give them a chance and support them?

PS

Why do you keep on bashing the phuv project?
I find it ironic because its now a local project supported by foreign groups ( from the Netherlands and Greenpeace) by bashed by Pinoys like you.

Do you find pleasure doing it? Just asking..

[jpdm]

Courtesy of SUV111 of SSC

Can we put a auto gas fed gasoline engine in this monster?


Courtesy of Christendom of SSC

or lets have this instead?

[jpdm]

More bacolod pictures:






Courtesy of Christendom of SSC

[jpdm]

More Bacolod e-jeepneys..

[jpdm]

AT La Mesa park..



Courtesy of Habagatcentral of SSC

[jpdm]

Electric Jeepney now has Landmark-Makati Medical Center route via De La Rosa


Courtesy of Walderstrom of SSC