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Verified Tsikot Member
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November 9th, 2006 07:31 PM #41the question kasi will lead you to believe na yung conveyor belt is capable of exerting enough frinction on rolling/rotating airplane wheels to stop it from taking off...sabi nga ni niky sa sagot nya..e halos imposible na yun...boy you gonna need trmendous amount of energy to do that..the plane is using its propellers/jet and wings to fly and you are using only friction on its rolling wheels to keep it on the ground?
airplane, rocket pareho lang yan...the only difference is that an airplane needs to be fuel efficient to be able to travel long distances and carry loads at the same time thus the lower speed and use of runway.
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November 9th, 2006 07:34 PM #42
Ok let's analyze this.
The plane is sitting on the conveyor belt.
The conveyor belt pushes the plane and keeps it above the "runway".
The only point any force from the plane will go to is the wheels.
The only point any force from the conveyor belt will go to is the wheels.
If both surfaces are going opposite each other at the same speed, then the plane is not moving.
The engines keep pushing it against the wind.
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November 9th, 2006 07:36 PM #43
There is a trick here, and it's still within simple physics. But it has absolutely nothing to do with the plane running against the runway!
Put it this way, you going on the freeway at 100KPH DOES NOT keep cars going the other direction at 100KPH!! The end result is that you pass by each other at 200KPH. It's exactly the same with the plane and the runway.
Also, I'm curious as to how you came up with the "no wind"/"air not moving" conclusion. Note that it's the ground that's moving against the plane, not the wind.
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November 9th, 2006 07:40 PM #44
Dude, that was the original condition. Are you telling me that Alpha and Niky are talking about realistic worlds, while I am basing my answer on the question? Then I guess that's the only thing that makes sense!
Whether it is impossible or not, that was the given. And I am sticking with that.
the plane is using its propellers/jet and wings to fly and you are using only friction on its rolling wheels to keep it on the ground?
airplane, rocket pareho lang yan
A rocket takes off using sheer thrust. The fins are just used to stabilize it and guide it along, NOT to generate lift. Otherwise, it would have been called a plane.
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Verified Tsikot Member
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November 9th, 2006 07:42 PM #45sir, nakakita ka na ba ng trick na hinila yung table cloth pero yung mga pingan at yung baso hindi gumalaw sa ibawbaw ng table? for all we know, the speed of the conveyor may even make the non-running airplane stay in place because of weight and gravity...then add power to the plane...zoom it goes.
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November 9th, 2006 07:42 PM #46
No. The force from the engines goes to the plane in total.
The only given is that both surfaces are moving at the same speed, in opposite directions.
To reiterate my last post, to exert enough force on the plane to keep it stationary, the belt must be moving faster than the plane.
Again, this is based on the question, only, no other conditions given.
If the plane were driven by its wheels, it will remain stationary. But it's not. That's all.Last edited by niky; November 9th, 2006 at 07:45 PM.
Ang pagbalik ng comeback...
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November 9th, 2006 07:43 PM #47
You're wrong in assuming that the plane's "force" goes to the wheels. The plane doesn't make any force, it gets its force from the thrust from engines. The wheels gets all its force from the conveyor belt.
The plane moves at 1MPH. The conveyor belt moves at 1MPH in the opposite direction. The plane gets a 1MPH wind across it's wings (clarify ko na ha!), the wheels just spin. Eventually the plane gets enough "wind" on its wings to take off and takes off.
When I said there is no wind, I meant that the wind isn't going to change it's velocity when the plane does. Planes take off perfectly fine in the real world without "wind". The engines push the plane forward and makes it's own "wind" on the wings. Your statement(s) is(are) completely fallacious in concluding that there cannot be wind against the plane.
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November 9th, 2006 07:44 PM #48
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November 9th, 2006 07:44 PM #49
This is my last reply for the night, it's 3AM and I'm supposed to be in bed.
Your freeway analogy is NOT the same. Why? Because the cars are already moving, but in this case you're starting with a NON-moving body to be compared with a NON-moving body.
The ground is not moving against the plane in the real world, the plane moves against the ground. I did not say that the ground is moving against the wind! Where did you get that bit?
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November 9th, 2006 07:48 PM #50A plane is standing on a runway that can move (like a giant conveyor
belt). This conveyor has a control system that tracks the plane's
speed and tunes the speed of the conveyor to be exactly the same (but
in the opposite direction) instantly.
that may be, but we all got plastic, young and old. we asked the lto guy, "papel ba po, o...
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