Explosion at Glorietta?

[cumbersome]

I did not say that they are corrupt. Pardon my term of "greed" but I am totally disgusted by the fact that they have not finished the investigation whether it was a bomb or a leak and they open? They have not cleared the real cause and here they are saying "business as usual" ? If safety is to be compromised, for me it is non-negotiable regardless of the loss. Remember that Glorietta is inter-connected and perhaps even the electricals are. So why open the next day and say that it is now "safe" structurally or "secured" in terms of threats?

cleaning.

They did check the structural integrity of the mall before they opened the areas that were undamaged. But i guess the important thing is to not to let terrorists, regardless of source or intent, hold sway in our lives. During the 2005 bombing of the London transport system where 4 bombs exploded leaving more than 50 dead, the English defiantly went on their routine the next day. While it is certainly wise to be cautious when we are in these areas, extreme measures such as boycotting malls and avoiding public places just give terrorists the feedback they want, and thus, encourage and embolden them to continue their assault on our way of living. I surmise that this is more the reason behind the opening of the mall the very next day.

[carscout]

I for myself wouldn't easily swallow this "terrorist did it" that Gondzales and Esperon is trying to feed the public. Their are too many inconsistencies if this is indeed initiated by any of our local terrorist group here. Maybe if the following qeustion has been answered to my satisfaction, I might start believing its a terrorist action. Maximum damaged, maximum casualties..thats the terrorist adaged, to instill terror.

This are just some of the question I'd like to raised.. Anybody?

1. Earlier reports say they found traces of RDX. The explosive material in C-4 is cyclotrimethylene-trinitramine (C3H6N6O6), commonly called RDX (which stands for “royal demolition explosive” or “research development explosive”).
Of course, there is a possibility we will never find out as the water from the sprinklers may have washed out the traces by now.

2. Timing. Why detonate the bomb at a time with the least amount of traffic (people) at the mall?

3. Target Area. Why that area of the mall? Why not the most crowded?

4. Responsibility. It doesn’t make sense, what message does this bombing have? Since RSG is claiming it, what is the message?

5. There was only one bomb. The perpetrators were sure of what they were doing, they were sure of the method. (sure it will explode). Terrorist usually do simultaneous detonation at different areas for maximum impact.

6. Why did Esperon/NSC wait for Trillanes to say something before confirming (?) that the C4 inventory in the military is all accounted for “except for the ones with the Magdalo?”

7. The blast may have destroyed the ceiling/roof because the floor is much thicker/stronger so the shock wave went up (path of least resistance). If damage and casualty number is to be expected, blast should be sideward not upward?

8. Deaths and injuries were more blast related, impact of shock wave and debris from the structure (walls, glass, etc.). No metal pieces usually wrapped around the the explosive to maximize death and injury (otherwise known as shrapnel).

9. This bomb was more “percussive” than "destructive", precisely calculated for maximum noise with minimal collateral damage. Only an expert could have done that either a trained EOD from Military or Mining Engineers (beats me why a miner wants to bomb glorieta though)

Of course, some corners may say we should wait for experts’ findings and rightly so. We wait. But whoever is responsible for this will find out that the people are no longer that gullible, we can see through “experts’” jargon-talk, and sift through the clouds of confusion that seem not to have dissipated.

AND THE POLICE INVESTIGATORS ARE TOO SLOW IN THE CONDUCT OF THEIR INVESTIGATION.
ARE THEIR HANDS TIED OR THE INVESITGATION BEING BUNGLED?
COULD IT BE THAT BOMBING WAS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN BUT IT WAS NOT INTENDED TO KILL?

[jonski]

Here we go again

[Honda97]

2. Timing. Why detonate the bomb at a time with the least amount of traffic (people) at the mall?

Actually, Friday lunch is also a busy time for the Malls.

9. This bomb was more “percussive” than "destructive", precisely calculated for maximum noise with minimal collateral damage. Only an expert could have done that either a trained EOD from Military or Mining Engineers (beats me why a miner wants to bomb glorieta though)

11 dead and maybe more than 80 injured? Isn't that quite a lot? It's quite a statement to bomb a mall like Glorietta. Even if they say it was an accident, it would be such a big issue on ALI Engineering to allow such an accident.

Just my reaction. Couldn't help it. Peace.

[nels76]

question: if it was indeed methane+diesel that caused the explosion, wouldn't the whole G2 have caught fire? alangan namang sumabog ung methane at ung diesel hindi sumabog? imho(di naman ako explosives expert) the methane could have been odorless, and burned clean hence no residue...but the diesel fuel would've stuck to the sorrounding structure and burned right?

Diesel burns by compression and not by Ignition.
Kita mo Diesel Engine, no spark plugs.
All the engine do is to compress it to have a combustion.

[Galactus]

^^^ Yup, diesel first has to be compressed and heated before it ignites and explodes, unlike gasoline which is a highly flammable substance.

This I learned several years ago from an episode in "Adderly" starring Winston Rekert. Kaya daw yung mga diesel-fed cars na kapag binabaril tapos sumasabog agad ay di totoo, it happens only in the movies.

May na-feature na sa Future Weapons na FAB, Fuel-Air Bomb, which atomizes the incendiary fuel before ignition several meters above the ground. Mas malakas daw ang destructive effect kesa conventional, ground-impact bombs. Also, in the early 1980's, I read a feature on the F.A.E. (Fuel-Air Explosive) in a Batman comic book. Baka ganun din ang nangyari sa Glorietta.

[Monseratto]

I heard over the radio that the diesel tank roof have been ripped open and the tank cover was hurled at a considerable distance. Diesel doesn't just explode. The tank belongs to Luk Yuen Noodle House. The FBI intial finding is that the is no RDX residue, contradicting the local police findings.

[wildthing]

for obvious reasons, they are already covering it up.

[6shooter]

for obvious reasons, they are already covering it up.

sino po at anu ang dahilan?

[redorange]

wala nga po. pero kung meron man lang nag amin sa kanila diba dapat i paalam ko? kasi higit sa lahat ang loyalty po natin ay dapat sa bansa at ang mga pilipino. di lang sa isang interest group.

ang nagpagsabog ay mga duwag at "selfish" din po dahil sarili lang nila ang naisip nila at parang di nila magawa man lang na harap harapan.

ask ko lang po...napansin niyo ba na parang di uso dito ang suicide bomber? dahil di po kaya ganun kalakas ang "conviction" ng mga rebelde?

Because suicide isn't part of the Pinoy culture and regardless of religion, Christian or Islam a Pinoy doesn't view suicide as a good thing. Second would be that the rebel problem of the Philippines is economically based, if these people had jobs that gave them a future to look forward to then there wouldn't be a problem. As I tell my friends who worry about ASG/MILF/MNLF members getting into the US and doing suicide bombings. If they ever do get in they would look for a job and start supporting their family like every other Pinoy in the US. As far as I know the only suicide bombing in the Philippines was the one inside the Super Ferry and that was done by an Indonesian not a Pinoy. The Rizal day bombing and the bombing of the bus in Makati if I recall correctly were also done by Indonesians not Pinoy Muslims. If I am wrong then other members can correct me on that information.

[wildthing]

i really don't know pero IMO it looks like a real explossive (C4 or TNT) explossion.

Diesel don't explode unless merun extreme pressure or heat.

Methane leak (as per news)... I doubt.

[badkuk]

Diesel burns by compression and not by Ignition.
Kita mo Diesel Engine, no spark plugs.
All the engine do is to compress it to have a combustion.

pasensiya na sir, di ko masyado nagets B) so kung sumabog po ung diesel e possible po na walang residue/burning?

hmm...i guess posible rin that the methane may have ignited, hence exerting pressure on the diesel tank...and boom

[froshie1]

safe side po ang mambintang at gumamit ng source para i paalam eto? safe side po ang gumawa ng kwento para mag takot ang mga tao? o ibintang ang di pa nahuhusgahan.

one of two things lang po iyon. either ang source niyo ang hindi nagsasabi ng totoo...o kayo po. IMHO.

Call it pambibintang but the govt has failed its people many times. I got this info from my father's friend whose intentions are good. Besides he said possible, didn't I post that word?

It won't hurt especially if you're living in a country wherein laws are just merely suggestions and being run mostly by scalawags.

Pero kung napruweba po na pamahalaan nga ang may kakagawan tatanggapin ko at hihingi po ako ng paumanhin niyo. ngunit ngayon hinatulan na ng iba. di ko nga po alam kung bakit may mga ganun din po. Bibintang para magkaroon ng "witchhunt" kaysa hintayin muna ang resulta. May pagka "mob" rule din kasi dito diba?

You don't have to say this. Nobody in his right mind won't wish that (gov't is the mastermind) will happen. I for one even if I heard that info don't want to believe it. But again, how many times did the govt failed its people? That made me take this route on being in the safe side because sad to say you can't rely on them.

[cutedoc]

dont you think there are cover ups???

1. if the problem was caused by a bomb be it a manmade or whatever, if the philippine surveilance team or the bomb squad are knowledgeable they shouyld already found out if it was caused by a bomb or not, or they are just bobo...

2. if it was the diesel which causes the explosion like what the news tries to tell the public on night news, how sure are they, couldnt they define after more than 48 hrs, i know its not a simple task but if your job is to handle such cases and studied on dealing with these cases, probably by now the govt should have come up with a solid statement and and an assumed one...

3. pertaining to number 1 which if the explosion was caused by a bomb, the fingers are pointing whos in charge??? blame it on

4. if explosion was caused by diesel, ayala must wash hands and put blame on rajah sulayman, OML, or whoever it is whom they could pin point, to save their face

- i think they already knew what the cause was, but they are still waiting for the money and where to put the blame on after recieving the cash

imo - there was a bomb to scare the administration, it was set up however near the diesel chamber which cause a massive explosion, if this were true katuwa siguro ng gumawa dahil with a simple bomb he was able to get into headline, it either he really knew how it is all gonna happen, or it was just a matter of nagkataon lang.

[wildthing]

i think there is a cover-up. and the bomb was probably sponsored .... but definitely not by a terrorist group... otherwise nuon pa sila nagpasabi.

people who did the plaza miranda bombing are still around and these are the type of people who will do anything just to be in power....

[Monseratto]

Apparently a majority of pinoys have become too paranoid and distrustful of this pandak goverment. Media and the celphone brigade has really done its thing that people would believe anything as gospel truth even though there is no collaborative proof. Nawala na yung open mindedness and common sense...

[lugarai]

Diesel fuel will autoignite when it is heated up up to 177-263C (flash point) methane gas will not create fire that can reach up to that temperature since this is only gas (can't reach that high temp). Trillanes was so sure that Esperon and Gonzales were all behind of this killings. Why? because gonzales has a story of using destructive bombs as Trillanes said from his interview. Investigations will not be that so hard (as the authority said) if there will be no cover-up to be made and under the order of NSC. The good part of this is Razon already said that there's RDX present and it is especially mixed to have destructive result and there's no way that this substance will be present in the mixture of diesel and/or methane gas even if you burn in or compressed it.

[claRkEnt]

ginagawa na namang tanga mga tao by insisting that the explosion had been caused by the "septic tank-diesel tank" presence in the basement. there were even reports that police and army personnel had a squabble on whogets some pieces of evidence whereas this should be handled solely by the police investigators. tsk tsk tsk

the more issues like this comes up, the more suspicions on cover-up/whitewash is surfacing.

ot: Dr. W. Jose had been my prof. nakakatulog ako sa class nya.

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/storypage.aspx?StoryId=96707

'Makati blast not caused by methane-diesel mix'

[SIZE=2]Experts from the University of the Philippines-College of Engineering thumbed down on the theory that the blast last Friday at Glorietta 2 mall in Makati City was caused by chemical and gas leaks.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Chemical engineering professors Ernesto dela Cruz and Wilfredo Jose, faculty members and students said it was unlikely that a leak from the tank containing thousands of liters of diesel at the mall's basement caused the blast.

[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]The engineers said diesel is not a volatile substance and will not explode as a liquid at any rate. They said it has to be in a gaseous state and has to vaporize before it can explode.

[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]They said that for diesel to vaporize, it has to be heated to up to more than 200 degrees Celsius inside an engine.

[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]Dela Cruz, Jose and the others also said that it would also be impossible that methane gas that allegedly leaked from the mall's septic tank caused the blast.

[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]The experts, however, said that methane will explode only if ignited. They said a mixture of five to 15 percent methane and 85 percent oxygen may explode but only if it set on fire.

[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]They added that the mixture should contain a substantial amount of chemical components to reach a blast magnitude similar to the one at the mall on Friday afternoon.

[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]The professors said they doubt that there was enough methane inside the Glorietta 2 sewer to fuel the explosion that reached up to the building's roof three stories from the basement.

[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]They also said that the rate of reaction would have to be quick to attain an explosion with impact. There should also have been a bad odor, much like that of rotten eggs, if the cause of the blast was indeed methane gas.

[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]Dela Cruz and Jose added that it would be impossible to have a chain reaction between methane and diesel. They said such a reaction could have resulted to a fire but not an explosion.[/SIZE]

[1D4LV]

imho.... if the septic tank theory is true then all individual households are at risk in blowing up.

yun nga lang ang magiging fragments eh jebs.....

[shadow]

wait and see na lang tayo kung ano magiging result ng "investigation" nila.....:popcorn: