Cpl. Daniel Smith GUILTY

[prinsipe]

anybody here have a copy of the decision? gusto ko kasi basahin ng buo. thanks!

horsepower, agree ako sa 'yo.

[tsupermario]

I used to be a law student (ngayon hindi na) and I could very well remember that in adjudjing a criminal case the burden of proof lies with the accused.

if that's the case, where does presumption of innocence fit in? i think you mean burden of evidence.

[leolop]

i think nagkamali lang si usokpower. from the sense of his post, he actually meant to say burden of proof is on the side of the accuser or prosecution.

Rape is defined and punished by RA8353 which amended the Revised penal code.

1) By a man who shall have carnal knowledge of a woman under any of the following circumstances:

"a) Through force, threat, or intimidation;

"b) When the offended party is deprived of reason or otherwise unconscious;

"c) By means of fraudulent machination or grave abuse of authority; and

"d) When the offended party is under twelve (12) years of age or is demented, even though none of the circumstances mentioned above be present.

2) By any person who, under any of the circumstances mentioned in paragraph 1 hereof, shall commit an act of ***ual assault by inserting his penis into another person's mouth or anal orifice, or any instrument or object, into the genital or anal orifice of another person.

in nicole's case, rape was committed "when the offended party is deprived of reason or otherwise unconscious." in her testimony, she said at some point she became unconscious and that was when the *** took place.

theveed poses a very interesting question when he asked at what point does drunkeness or being high on drugs lead to being "deprived of reason"? a drunk or high female agrees (or does not put up any resistance) to having ***, but when the act is done and she becomes sober, she cries rape. that can be a very scary situation for a guy who thought he just scored. i've researched a bit, but most cases just show the girl was completely unconscious or asleep.

i myself have a "bangbus" theory of what really happened, but then again Judge Pozon based his decision from evidence presented during a full blown trial. after reading his comments on the paper and what little of the decision was published, i'm more inclined to say there was a just decision. my professor who is also a judge and colleague of Pozon says that he is not as convinced but in the same breath says that he didn't try the case and he has a high regard for his fellow judge.

[Zeus]

Pag pinakinggan mo yun panig nila Smith, may puntos sila, pag sa panig ni Nicole, may puntos rin. Hirap talagang mag judge dito Silang dalawa lang talaga ang may alam kung rape ba yan o consensual *** Kaya ingat tayong mga male tsikoteers sa pagdiskarte sa mga babae, baka makasohan tayong rape

[oldblue]

ako tinitignan ko lang facial expression ng judge eh. ipit sya nag-uumpugang bato. he looks so meek and down to earth.
he's not yet retired kaya yari sya sa mga pinoy and public perception. in another sense, pano na ang American dream niya with his family? and other Pinoys' american dreams hehehe like the blamer people that we all are, i'm sure in time yari din ang judge na yan lalo na sa mga ma-dedeny at mapapaghigpitan.

so the decision i-hold muna sya sa Makati City Jail for the time being para lumabas at maibsan ang galit ng lahat ng nasa side ni nicole. and when the issue dies down, use the VFA agreement kung ano man yun, and pull-out the American from the country.

[theveed]

Was the victim's (and accused) blood alcohol level tested right after the incident as well? If that can prove intoxicity (or lack of it), medyo mas madali ang prueba ng mga parties.

Kasi what if a person claims "madali ako malasing" even if 1 beer lang ininom nya...

Flipside din,

Can the offending party claim his own intoxication as a reason as well?

[Jun aka Pekto]

ako tinitignan ko lang facial expression ng judge eh. ipit sya nag-uumpugang bato. he looks so meek and down to earth.
he's not yet retired kaya yari sya sa mga pinoy and public perception. in another sense, pano na ang American dream niya with his family? and other Pinoys' american dreams hehehe like the blamer people that we all are, i'm sure in time yari din ang judge na yan lalo na sa mga ma-dedeny at mapapaghigpitan.

so the decision i-hold muna sya sa Makati City Jail for the time being para lumabas at maibsan ang galit ng lahat ng nasa side ni nicole. and when the issue dies down, use the VFA agreement kung ano man yun, and pull-out the American from the country.

I don't think this case has any bearings on the judge if he plans to immigrate to the US.

What's going to make it harder for Pinoys to immigrate to the US are the Democrats. Historically, Pinoys have had a much easier time coming here when there's a Republican president.

Now that the Democrats control both houses and a Democrat president likely (at least based on the current atmosphere) in the next presidential elections, those who want to immigrate here can expect much longer times and higher rates of rejections.

Sorry for the OT.

[oldblue]

Was the victim's (and accused) blood alcohol level tested right after the incident as well? If that can prove intoxicity (or lack of it), medyo mas madali ang prueba ng mga parties.

Kasi what if a person claims "madali ako malasing" even if 1 beer lang ininom nya...

Flipside din,

Can the offending party claim his own intoxication as a reason as well?

d'ba ang law lang naman natin drunk driving? or meron na ba law about being drunk while having *** hehehe

[Jun aka Pekto]

Personally, I don't have any sympathy for Smith nor his companions.

All GI's who come on temporary duty to the Philippines are briefed (often repeatedly) not to BS around with the local women or piss off the locals. They chose to disregard that order. So, they're on their own (or at least they should've been). The other 3 were just lucky evidence against them were inconclusive.

[oldblue]

I have a friend in the US Navy. typically, pag may R&R sila, they will be briefed on where to go and where NOT to go with Maps. usually they will have an agreement kung saan sila dapat mag-tour or magpunta regardless of which country they're in.

and usually, they will all meet up sa mga NOT to go places, officers and ordinary navymen alike hehehe

if they got caught and got jailed (for instance brawling, disturbing the peace etc), their immediate superior will fetch them and will ask this question: "Was it worth it?" if they answered, "aye aye sir!" "well then good for you!" and then the superior will lock/ground them for a month or so sa ship nila. huli ka pa din hehehe

[theveed]

Oldblue: Hehe, not sure pre... I don't drink so I never bothered learning those...

[Horsepower]

1. She was carried like a pig according to witnesses. She was thrown out of the van naked afterwards like a pig. Whether she was too intoxicated or not, the point is, she shouldn't have been taken advantage of. I never have and will never bang any drunk girl. Only dickless guys with no self-respect do that.

2. It does make a BIG difference when the rapist is a US Soldier or a pinoy kanto boy. Pinoy kanto boy goes straight to prison with presumption of guilt while US soldier is defended by his country, gets access to best lawyers and is usually presumed innocent by the many who are infected with colonial mentality or caucasians-are-superior syndrome and couple that with the chauvinistic society, and wala, girl victim drinking in a bar is branded as a hooker, flirt, low class etc and presumed that she lured the soldier.

US Soldiers do these anywhere they go because they are from a superpower, they know people are hungry for aides and will usually compromise just to keep the donations flowing in. If majority of a country's population has mentality like these, it will stay raped, growthless, jobless and always begging.

Just because US gives us aides and some of our countrymen desperate for their VISAs like dogs begging for a dry bone doesn't mean they can do whatever they want. We are human beings too.

And who cares about the American dream anyway? it sucks to be always the target of terrorists, hurricanes and be led by an oil hungry president lying about non-existent bioweapons.. (no offense meant to americans esp the good friends i have there).

I'd rather be in a European province and lead a blissful life near a beach.

[kimpOy]

or australia where my backyard is a 4x4 haven he..he sorry OT

[Flagg]

...I'd rather be in a European province and lead a blissful life near a beach.

OT: Buti pa you, can afford EUR3.00 Coke...

[oldblue]

US Soldiers do these anywhere they go because they are from a superpower, they know people are hungry for aides and will usually compromise just to keep the donations flowing in. If majority of a country's population has mentality like these, it will stay raped, growthless, jobless and always begging.

Just because US gives us aides and some of our countrymen desperate for their VISAs like dogs begging for a dry bone doesn't mean they can do whatever they want. We are human beings too.

And who cares about the American dream anyway? it sucks to be always the target of terrorists, hurricanes and be led by an oil hungry president lying about non-existent bioweapons.. (no offense meant to americans esp the good friends i have there).

I'd rather be in a European province and lead a blissful life near a beach.

I believe sir they also have R&R sa mga developed countries like the ones in europe, japan etc. the problem with us soldiers lalo na yun mga nasa ship, parang prisoners yan. mostly males din ang kasama nila. kaya pag pinakawalan yan, magwawala talaga sila. hayok na hayok, yan pardon the term.

now i dont know, if nicole was in the wrong place, at the wrong time or in the wrong place, at the right time. she should have seen this coming. hindi dapat nya inallow sarili nya mag-isa in the company of men like these.

i've asked my navy friend what's their stand on this issue who also happens to be Fil-am. sabi niya, talo talaga sila bec. they're men accused of rape. i asked kung may cases na ganito, sabi niya there are many. and they are in jail, in a US military jail.

for me, mas ok na nga siguro yan ganyan setup, instead sa bilibid. for if something happens to that American in muntinlupa, yari tayong lahat.

[Jun aka Pekto]

I have a friend in the US Navy. typically, pag may R&R sila, they will be briefed on where to go and where NOT to go with Maps. usually they will have an agreement kung saan sila dapat mag-tour or magpunta regardless of which country they're in.

and usually, they will all meet up sa mga NOT to go places, officers and ordinary navymen alike hehehe

if they got caught and got jailed (for instance brawling, disturbing the peace etc), their immediate superior will fetch them and will ask this question: "Was it worth it?" if they answered, "aye aye sir!" "well then good for you!" and then the superior will lock/ground them for a month or so sa ship nila. huli ka pa din hehehe

Those times are fast disappearing as a sign of the times. I kind of feel that Smith is being made an example of to serve as a warning to other GI's and deter them from making the same mistake. I get a feeling that the military brass at the top are getting sick and tired of bailing out these errant GI's.

[flakez]

ano ba kasi itsura ni nicole? hehehe. baka mas madali mag decide pag nakita na natin itsura ni nicole. si smith fafable eh. hehehe. malamang mararape to sa kulungan.

[Horsepower]

Yung US Ambassador nag-sumbat na ng mga tinulong nila sa Pilipinas. Shows you the character (and/or lack thereof) of some americans.

[Alpha_One]

2. It does make a BIG difference when the rapist is a US Soldier or a pinoy kanto boy. Pinoy kanto boy goes straight to prison with presumption of guilt while US soldier is defended by his country, gets access to best lawyers and is usually presumed innocent by the many who are infected with colonial mentality or caucasians-are-superior syndrome and couple that with the chauvinistic society, and wala, girl victim drinking in a bar is branded as a hooker, flirt, low class etc and presumed that she lured the soldier.

It does NOT make a difference if a rapist is a US soldier or a kanto bum, in the same way that it wouldn't make a difference if the victim is a hooker or a rich college grad from a prestigious university. I know you're trying to say that there is discrimination against the "superpowers" vs. "low-class", reverse discrimination and double standards isn't going to help.

My sentiments are similar to that of Jun... I don't really care about Smith. He screwed around, he gets what's right for him. As for the decision, I'll respect that.

As for the Kris Aquino comment, hasn't she subject herself to enough public humiliation already?

[gregg_g]

As for the Kris Aquino comment, hasn't she subject herself to enough public humiliation already?

Sorry OT lang, what did she say about?