Ford's POWERSHIFT Question

[erick_214]

[SIZE="4"]Elow Guyz...

I'm planning to buy a Ford Focus but I might just wait for the 2012 model. I have a couple of questions re the Focus' POWERSHIFT. Hope some of you guys can answer them.

1) I know it's better than the normal ATs'...pero ano yung advantages niya over the normal ATs'..?

2) May clutch lining at pressure plate ba ito?

3) May torque converter ba ito ng gaya sa normal ATs'?

4) Pag nag change ba ng ATF eh pag nagdrain eh drain ba lahat?

Marmaing salamat sa mga sasagot...[/SIZE]

[niky]

1. No torque converter to rob power at low rpms. Much, much, much faster shifts. Smoother operation. The "wet-clutch" isn't quite as fuel efficient as the dry-clutch variant, but it's more efficient than a regular AT.

2. You won't need to change them. The fully automated system means that the clutches will last a whole lot longer than a regular clutch.

3. Nope.

4. Have no idea about fluid change intervals. But DCTs don't use standard ATF.

[tidus1203]

Wala ding SHIFT SHOCK. Di mo mapapansin nag shift na yung car unless you look at the tachometer...

[the watcher]

Here's a comment on the Focus transmission from a Motor Trend comparison test of compact sedans. You may want to take this into account alongside early forum discussions about the smaller Fiesta's dual-clutch:

"Absent the extra stick, what would distract from a dual-clutch transmission dubbed "horrible" and "half-baked?"
"It's clunky at low speeds and rough when starting from a stop. To top it off, the shifts don't feel much faster than in any other auto in the group," noted Evans."

Best-Selling Compact Sedans - Comparison - Motor Trend

Best-Selling Compact Sedans - Comparison - Motor Trend

[htc8p]

[SIZE=4]Elow Guyz...

I'm planning to buy a Ford Focus but I might just wait for the 2012 model. I have a couple of questions re the Focus' POWERSHIFT. Hope some of you guys can answer them.

1) I know it's better than the normal ATs'...pero ano yung advantages niya over the normal ATs'..?

2) May clutch lining at pressure plate ba ito?

3) May torque converter ba ito ng gaya sa normal ATs'?

4) Pag nag change ba ng ATF eh pag nagdrain eh drain ba lahat?

Marmaing salamat sa mga sasagot...[/SIZE]

powershift is just a marketing term. bottom line dual clutch so mabilis ang shifting gears you dont feel the jerk/lag. but with the modern AT cars now like toyota dual vvti you also barely feel the shift too

also pag nag change ng ATF talagang dinedrain yan. i think usually every 50k

[erick_214]

Elow Guys...Thanks very much sa mga sumagot...Pero still have some follow questions:

*Niky: Sabi mo na yung automated system will make it last a lot longer, so does it mean na mayron siyan clutch lining at pressure plate?

*Tidus: Mukhang may fiesta ka, tanong ko lang kung sa anong RPM ba usually nagshi-shift up yung DSC ng Ford? Pwede bang baguhin yung shifting

points nito?

...Ano ba ang may mas magandang transmission system, yung sa Focus or yung sa Tucson? Kasi di ba sa Tucson eh AT rin siya? Similar lang ba silang

dalawa?

At isa pang tanong, pag ginamit ba yung manual ng DSC ng Ford pag nag shift up ba eh kailangang bumitaw sa throttle?

Thanks guys in advance...

[tidus1203]

Sa 1st gear it normally shifts at 2500RPM - 3000RPM. From 2nd all the way to 6th around 2000RPM is the shiftpoint. This is for typical city driving pedal pressure. Of course by stepping harder it will shift higher...

[erick_214]

Sa 1st gear it normally shifts at 2500RPM - 3000RPM. From 2nd all the way to 6th around 2000RPM is the shiftpoint. This is for typical city driving pedal pressure. Of course by stepping harder it will shift higher...

Hi tidus, thanks for the prompt reply...Possible bang magshift-up siya around 1,500RPM kung mas magaan yung apak sa throttle? Ano kadalasan mong ginagawa pag tipong econo drive ka?

Uu nga pala, pag nagshift ka sa P kusa ba siyang umaandar gaya ng sa normal na AT? yung parang nagccrawl?

Thanks ulet

[tidus1203]

Its very hard to make the FoFi shift that low kasi long geared ratio eh...

Pag econo drive ako accelerate moderately tapos as much as possible kung kaya gumamit ng momentum and let go of the gas pedal I do so... Anticipation na din of stops para let go of the gas tapos let the friction slow you down tapos the brakes when you get closer to finally stop the vehicle...

Yes just like an automatic when in D or L or R it will crawl...

[niky]

Here's a comment on the Focus transmission from a Motor Trend comparison test of compact sedans. You may want to take this into account alongside early forum discussions about the smaller Fiesta's dual-clutch:

"Absent the extra stick, what would distract from a dual-clutch transmission dubbed "horrible" and "half-baked?"
"It's clunky at low speeds and rough when starting from a stop. To top it off, the shifts don't feel much faster than in any other auto in the group," noted Evans."

Best-Selling Compact Sedans - Comparison - Motor Trend

Best-Selling Compact Sedans - Comparison - Motor Trend

The US Focus is a gasoline model using the dry-clutch powershift. It's different from the wet-clutch system in the TDCi. If you're looking at a TDCi purchase, it's different. The TDCi is smoother from a stop than the dry-clutch Fiesta, because there's a lot of torque there and the ECU can juggle the throttle and clutch for a perfect start every time

And while the logic in shifting for the dry-clutch powershift may be hesitant, shifts are definitely smoother than with a traditional automatic.

Yes, you will not need to replace linings and pressure plates, because everything is automated. Automation makes the clutch last longer because the computer will not slip the clutch or "drop the clutch" at high revs like a human driver would.

[erick_214]

Hi Niky, thanks for your input...

So, ano ba mas maganda yung dry-type PS or yng wet-type PS?

Wow may mga variants pa pala ito...

Ano nga pala pinagkaiba ng dry and wet type?

[tidus1203]

Ang alam kong pinaka malaking difference ng DRY and WET type is yung WET kailangan pa ng transmission fluid changes in maintenance intervals. Yung DRY type sealed na yun, no need for transmission fluid EVER. Its as good as the life of the car so basically its maintenance free na sya. Di ko na lang alam sa durability, since wala pa tayo sa future!

Also to lean more about the DUAL CLUTCH TRANMISSION read
Dual clutch transmission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[niky]

Basically, that's it. But the big difference, which is why they still use the wet type for the TDCi is that the dry-type has a limit in how much torque it can handle. The wet-type can take much more power, which is why it's used for the TDCi, since the TDCi puts out over 250 ft.lbs of torque on overboost.

The dry-clutch has a 170 ft-lb (or somewhere thereabouts... forgot exact number) torque limit. More than enough for the Fiesta or, likely, a gasoline 2.0, but not anywhere near enough to cope with a turbocharged 2.0 diesel.

Still... the other advantage of the dry-clutch is that it should give better economy than the wet clutch. Less friction, less drag, less weight.

[Ry_Tower]

So technically better pa rin Manual tranny if you are after absolute fuel economy?

[erick_214]

Hmmm...Uu nga ano parang mas OK pa rin yung MANUAL...kaso nga lang nakakatamad ng mag-MANUAL pag trapik eh...

Pero guys,,,pag nasa SPORTS MODE yung PS both wet and dry, pwede ba magshift up around 1500RPM..? Advisable ba? May

Masisira ba?

So sa wet-type PS eh wala ng TORQUE converter na aalalahanin db? So ano naman ang dapat na alalahanin sa wet-type PS?

[tidus1203]

All dual clutch tranny's have NO torque converter mapa wet or dry type. Lets concentrate on the wet type since you are buying a 2nd gen Ford Focus... Ang aalahanin mo lang is papalitan mo yung transmission fluids nya on the designated time of changes. Not sure what's the interval mga Focus owners na sumagot...

Actually sa shifting mas ok pa nga dual clutch kaysa manual. Here look at this Japanese video. DUAL CLUTCH vs MANUAL both a VW Golf tested by pros... As we can see DCT shifts faster and smoother.

YouTube - ‪Drift King Test Golf GTI (DSG vs 6spd Manual)‬‏

[erick_214]

All dual clutch tranny's have NO torque converter mapa wet or dry type. Lets concentrate on the wet type since you are buying a 2nd gen Ford Focus... Ang aalahanin mo lang is papalitan mo yung transmission fluids nya on the designated time of changes. Not sure what's the interval mga Focus owners na sumagot...

Actually sa shifting mas ok pa nga dual clutch kaysa manual. Here look at this Japanese video. DUAL CLUTCH vs MANUAL both a VW Golf tested by pros... As we can see DCT shifts faster and smoother.

YouTube - ‪Drift King Test Golf GTI (DSG vs 6spd Manual)‬‏

Hi Tidus, thanks for the links...very informative and kakainggit din...hehehe
Actually so yung current Focus has wet-type PS right? Yung 2012 Focus kaya wet/dry?
Ano ba advantages and disadvantages ng wet and dry type PS?
Yung sa Fofi mo, I guess PS yan db, so how do you change gears if your into Manual/Sports mode?

Thanks again...

[niky]

If it's the TDCi, chances are it'll be wet. If it's gasoline, likely dry.

So technically better pa rin Manual tranny if you are after absolute fuel economy?

Yup. Because you know what gear you need to be in at all times. The transmission doesn't. But these new dual-clutches and CVTs give almost as good economy as the best drivers, for much less pain.

[tidus1203]

Hi Tidus, thanks for the links...very informative and kakainggit din...hehehe
Actually so yung current Focus has wet-type PS right? Yung 2012 Focus kaya wet/dry?
Ano ba advantages and disadvantages ng wet and dry type PS?
Yung sa Fofi mo, I guess PS yan db, so how do you change gears if your into Manual/Sports mode?



Thanks again...

Unfortunately the Fiesta has no manual override or sports mode. Parang old school automatic P R N D and L lang...

[niky]

Doesn't matter, either... the +/- function on Ford Focii (whether they be Powershift or not) has always been slow to react and clumsy.

"L" is the most you'll need from any transmission. It hangs on to revs, lets you run out the engine before shifting and does a good job of being responsive.