the REAL Truth about GOJI JUICE..tsk tsk...

[pinoyaco]

It would be the second opinion to balance what is seemingly an overly positive view on a product. As more and more people have personally experienced, if something is too good to be true, it usually is too good to be true

... If you look at the first post, it's in the negative. I responded to place another side. And as other people have experienced as well, something that is too good can be true is true.

So we returned to personal experiences, which is what started me posting here.

Who am I to dismiss the educated opinions of trained medical experts with years of experience?

Aren't all medical experts also caution people to self-diagnose themselves which includes doctors and other medical experts. Personal biases might cloud proper analysis.

Yet here we are trying to say the opposite.

And who I am to dismiss something without trying it?

We see studies of experts all the time. We even see them in newspapers and TV. Let's go to commercials as a simpler sample. Head and Shoulder claims to cure you of dandruff. They have studies, they have experts, they have testimonials, the works. I used to have dandruffs, so I tried it. Didn't work for me. Even Nizoral, a respected and well-known anti-dandruff cure, didn't.

So what did I do? I tried other brands. What worked for me is not even an anti-dandruff, just Pantene's hair-fall control.

And the educated opinions of trained medical experts with years of experience? You can't be sure of that unless you make it a hobby to look into each credential fo the members of the research team. And as you have inadvertently stated - you pin your faith on these people. One thing about people? You can't rely on them all the time. Because people will always stumble.

Search frauds and fallacies if you want. Even our ancestors believed for centuries that the sun revolves around us because of the educated opinions of the scientific experts of that time.

Personal biases could cloud proper analysis. And about self-medication - how do the people before learn of the different medicinal qualities of herbs and plants without trying it on themselves first? It is only later that we have taken to experimenting on animals.

And so why are you saying I shouldn't listen to the proverbial "other side" then?

Ah, but nowhere did I say that you ought to not listen on the proverbial "other side." Again, I'll quote myself:

If one is willing to listen to one side, one must be willing to listen to the other as well.

I can't see an order, a demand, or a command in there. It is merely a request of fairness and open-mindedness, a willingness to take in the pros and the cons to weigh it for yourself in a fair and just way.

kung mura lang itong goji eh lalaklak ako nito araw araw kahit na ndi sure sa benefits.

Honga e. :/

ang problema kasi sa mga ganitong produkto ay yung presyo (sobrang mahal) at kung paano siya ibinebenta (more of a pyramid scheme disguised as multi-level marketing).

multi-level marketing is legal per se. pero pag ni-require mo yung prospective agents/dealers to cash out or buy a product bago sila makasali, illegal na yun.

Yupyup, the prices. I can't say anything about pyramid schemes, though. Hindi ko lam yan e.

Nah, Goji doesn't require that. My mom's most active member doesn't even drink it. XD But she just brought a new drinker the other night ago - her doctor friend. ^_^

sabi niya may naging milyonaryo daw sa pagbebenta ng goji

kaya mahal ang goji hehe

laki ng halaga napupunta sa agent

sigurado wala pa kalahati puhunan nyan

Speculations are moot and academic, yeah? And puhunan - he owed his upline a heck lot before he got rich off it enough to pay her back.

Gah, andami nyo nang sumagot! XD Anyway, I still have life outside this forum, unfortunately. So if there's still some calls of profiteer, marketer, exaj sa testi, and all that jazz (and seeing as naglalaglagan naman tayo ng links at epal ako XD) just hit me up here.

O, that's just a blog. Wag kayong praning~ XD

In fact, you're free to email me if you want. Mas madali magbigay ng information asked of me when it's through a more personal means, unlike a public forum.

Been a long time since I've posted in a forum. Salamat! :D

[safeorigin]

imho(being a future pharmacist), when comparing bioequivalent products, economy comes into mind. why spend on something 200-1000 times more expensive when you can just get the same benefit from something affordable. tbh, it pisses me off seeing how wolfberry is exploited. i mean, the plant has a wide potential.

http://journals.cambridge.org/action...ine&aid=917608

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...1f68926967d61c

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...db20197bbf6ea8

http://www.jcimjournal.com/en/showAb...?articleid=428

but of course, as the clinical study suggests, further study should be done before pushing through on "claimed therapeutic" effects.

[safeorigin]

subukan ko mamaya tignan sa UST library yung mga journal

note: UST has access to science direct

[uls]

^^

goji is not the only fruit/plant that contains polysaccharides

mushroom polysaccharides underwent more clinical tests than goji

since you read stuff like that, check out lentinan (and other anti cancer/immunomodulatory effects of mushrooms)

i read stuff like that too, and more

point is, don't focus too much on one fruit/plant

there are thousands and thousands of plants and parts of plants that have medicinal effects on the human body

there's just way too much hype with goji

[safeorigin]

like i said, in comparison of bioequivalent products, you choose the most economical

[uls]

subukan ko mamaya tignan sa UST library yung mga journal

note: UST has access to science direct

research on phytochemicals/plant compounds are not so exclusive that you need special access

you can find it free all over the net

like the US govt pubmed site

bottom line is, no single plant has a monopoly on health benefits

[uls]

like i said, in comparison of bioequivalent products, you choose the most economical

and what is so economical about goji?

kung taga Pinas ka, what's more economical?

locally available plants and fruits or something you have to import from the himalayas?

what "economical" are you talking about?

[safeorigin]

of course that's true but i like seeing the phytochemical analysis in detail

[safeorigin]

economical = OTC food supplements, tea et al.

[LadyRider]

Haaaaay sana nga merong magbigay nitong juice na ito sa mga mahihirap na mga may sakit.

Sa ngayon ang may access lang sa mga ganito ay mga may pera dahil sa sobrang mahal.

It's true, the Philippines is rich in natural resources especially for herbal medicines and cures.

Kulang lang tayo sa budget sa gobyerno palibhasa kung saan saan dinadala ang kaban ng bayan!

Kung tutuusin, we do not need to import this juice from the Himalayas! We all have the resources here in our country.

Bakit kamo yung mga nasa probinsyang matatanda umaabot ng up to 100 years old? They don't drink any food supplements nor drink juice formulas!

It all boils down to "BACK TO BASICS!"

[uls]

economical = OTC food supplements, tea et al.

so you are comparing OTC dietary supplements to pharmaceutical drugs?

how about comparing the cost of real fruits and veggies to OTC supplements

[ghosthunter]

WTF!?!??!! P2000 for a bottle of juice! That's not even 2 liters. I think I'll just buy a box of V8 Tropical Blend or kilos and kilos of different fruits. How much is that Goji Juice anywa?

Goji juice is being pushed from P1800+ to P2100+ price level. Prices differ depending in the dealer I guess (comes out of their percentage income).

BTW, RED JUICE comes only in 2Liter bottles I think.

In the end, the question is: Maybe there's more money being generated than health.

[uls]

Kung tutuusin, we do not need to import this juice from the Himalayas! We all have the resources here in our country.

Bakit kamo yung mga nasa probinsyang matatanda umaabot ng up to 100 years old? They don't drink any food supplements nor drink juice formulas!

It all boils down to "BACK TO BASICS!"

exactly

baket kelangan natin ng isang prutas na galing sa himalayas?

wala ba tayo sariling prutas?

[shadow]

Naglilibot lang ako and I stumbled upon this. And I registered just to have my say.

I think it's really unfair that you're looking down on a product just because you find it expensive. You want expensive? Try six years of dialysis - that's expensive.

My Tita has chronic migraine and she's been on painkillers since she was 16. Her kidneys paid the price of frequent use of painkillers. Six years ago she got a turn for the worse and she was asked to either undergo dialysis or kidney transplant. The transplant list is effing long, and ilang taon ang hihintayin nya just to use hundreds of thousands for the operation and the maintenance to follow. So she chose dialysis and she spends 8,000 pesos a week just for it.

Imagine 8,000 pesos a week. In a month, she spends 32,000. Multiply that by 12 months, then multiply that by 6 years. And that's only for HER.

Three years ago, she wanted to die. Her skin had become dark and scaly and she stopped looking at a mirror. She couldn't even sit up, let alone stand. She's always in pain from the dialysis. Her family was spending thousands on her, and she has children in school. She didn't want to go outside anymore.

That moment, someone handed her a Doctor's Report telling about Goji. And because she thought she had nothing left to lose, she decided to try it.

She felt an effing chest pain and she thought that she's going to die. It left some time later, and she figured she'd drink again since then. A week into drinking, she could sit up. Months later and she could move again. Now, three years later, she's going around telling her story of survival because of Goji. Her dialysis is not frequent anymore and soon, she'll be off it entirely.

You don't believe me? Ask my mom. You can call her here: 4328185. Look for Cora Co and she'd be happy to talk to you about Goji.

Right now, I'm in the process of blogging for Goji. I've been skeptical about it too, but after my Dad recovered from his Advanced TB because of it (back then we can't even be in the same room with him, and now he sleeps beside my one year-old nephew, a true-blue Goji baby) - and after I gained weight after almost two decades of looking like an anorexic - I'm a firm believer.

And about the Multi-level Marketing thing? That's true. My sister's ex is now one of the youngest millionaires of the country after he quit his job in St.Luke's to focus on Goji. His dad, formerly house-ridden because of stroke, is now in the US taking care of his grandson because of Goji. When the US embassy denied his application for Visa, the FreeLife company intervened on his behalf and not only was he approved, he can now travel to US for ten years.

What is he doing right now? Speaking in Goji seminars and whining about receiving six-figures every month.

Sayang lang at nagbreak sila ng ate ko. At least, we're still on friendly terms. I'm aiming to be like him.

two words for you "HAW SHIAO!" tama ba spelling

bentahan mo si Kris Aquino baka pwede pa makatulong kay Cory..what you think?

here we go again with millions earned via MLM...how many cars does your sister's ex BF owned?

will it be by any chance that the name of your sister's ex BF be James Chavez....:rofl:

[uls]

she had to to register and post to defend a fruit juice

why would someone do that unless there's vested interest

(someone's income is threatened by this thread?)

i mean kung gumagamit ka ng goji and it works for you, why do you care what other people think or say?

kung ayaw nila maniwala sa health benefits ng goji, hayaan mo sila... kawalan nila yan, di sayo

unless may mawawala sayo (new recruits, income)

kaya todo defend

[safeorigin]

this reminded me of multo

[ghosthunter]

Notice that if you Google with the following words: "goji juice philippines", this very discussion thread is listed on the first page in the listed hits/results.

And among those listed hits, we are the only one NOT promoting Goji juice.

:obvious::google::award:

she had to to register and post to defend a fruit juice

why would someone do that unless there's vested interest

(someone's income is threatened by this thread?)

i mean kung gumagamit ka ng goji and it works for you, why do you care what other people think or say?

kung ayaw nila maniwala sa health benefits ng goji, hayaan mo sila... kawalan nila yan, di sayo

unless may mawawala sayo (new recruits, income)

kaya todo defend

[ghosthunter]

Personally, some mix of fresh fruits with every meal is much better & cheaper than buying some bottled questionable expensive overhyped imported fruit juice drink.



:question:

[niky]

Now let's replace the words "fruit juice" with say - health care plans. Or auto loans. Or even the very shaky religious belief.

Why? Because it all depends upon what you believe in. If you believe in health care plans, or auto loans, or God, or even the positive benefits of tobacco as opposed to the popular and research-based findings that carcinogens are bad for you (a lot of our indigenous people enjoy their tobaccos in old age and even brag about being smokers for more than half of their lives), you'd go out of the way to defend it. I believe in Goji juice because I use it and, again, as I have mentioned time and again, it works for me.

Let's not be hypocrites here. Think of a time that you have defended something that people you know find risible or even pathetic like a freaking fruit juice. If you can't remember such a time, then I must say I find that quite unfortunate, as a lot of the things in life are based on faith.

The scientifc studies and researches? They're still up to faith, as you're pinning your belief on the people or group behind said studies and researches. You may say "Ah, it's Bayer-researched (or made), so it must be awesome,because Bayer's Aspirin has helped millions and they're the third largest pharmaceutical company in the world," but it's still up to you on what you experience with their product. In the end, you don't pin your faith in the studies, but the people behind them.

(And Bayer? It's just the company that sponsored the infamous Josef Mengele - who just happened to be the dear doctor of Auschwitz - of course, this is still subjected to, guess what, faith in researches about Bayer and Mengele! awesome, isn't it?)

I've never defended religion as absolute truth. I question any religion that proclaims an absolute and arbitrary hold on gospel truth while relying on inconsistent scripture and logic. I believe that spiritually, every person is entitled to their own view of "God" and no man has the right to impose their own beliefs on others... though they may freely question them. And I do question the value of scripture and dogma that puts the needs of the religion's hierarchy over the inherent rights and needs of the people (Shariah law, for one... the restriction of the Catholic Church on women priests, for another... and many many more... )

An auto plan or a health insurance policy is not a matter of faith. It is a binding contract stating that in the case of Party A incurring injury or disability or death resulting from factors covered within the contract, they are entitled to receive benefits specified within the document. It's a legal contract.

So... how did we get on the tobacco kick? That's deflection.

Aspirin's effects are well-documented and studied by various medical groups. The history of the corporation that distributes it has no effect on its effectiveness. You might as well say that capitalism and democracy don't work because it is being popularized by the grandchildren of genocidal Caucasians who cut a bloody swath through Europe and North America. Whether they work or not is not dependent upon whether the President buggered his aide in the Oval Office.

Now, if other products are as good as they claim, then shouldn't they be going to hospitals, especially government run hospitals, and give their products to the terminal patients and let them take it for a few months for free as well?

That's called clinical trials. And drug companies actually do that for new anti-cancer drugs and purported miracle cures. They spend their own money doing this before charging people for it. Compared to supplement sellers, who charge people more for things which have not been proven to work yet within the realm of rigorous scientific study.

Yes, I gather that. And I'm not obliged to give you those information freely, yeah? Those are personal - remember that Gloria boob-job leak? Even if I give you those info you are seeking, won't you be forcing a doctor to act against ethics by providing you with info just because you're curious to see if I'm telling the truth or not? Wouldn't you be helping him act against what he stands for?

Think about that.

(and eh, it's easy lift the phone and call - though I reckon I understand. sometimes, I don't call certain people because I feel kinda afraid of what I'm going to hear, too)

If a medical case is used as proof or justification for a product's effectiveness, then it needs to be documented, otherwise it can't be submitted as proof at all. That's where the testimonial falls flat on its face.

Why do you think drug companies spend untold millions of dollars on research and clinical trials? Many "miracle cures" are discovered every year... but most of them just don't stand up to scientific scrutiny.

I don't personally know of anyone who claims to have been cured by Goji, like "hallelujah Goji cured me!" - I just know of many whose ailments have been eased by the juice. Goji juice is a food supplement, though I can't say for certain if it has other assisting supplements or not. I simply go by what I said that it works for me and a lot of people I know. ^_^

So... what about your "Tita" on dialysis? Very few conditions curable by anything short of a kidney transplant require dialysis... and from your story a few pages ago, supposedly "Goji juice" cured her. I'm sure many, many people would be interested to know about it.

-

If Goji makes you feel better, so be it. Fruit juice is good for you. But since the effects described in the only scientific study so far on Goji juice can be replicated by drinking various fruit juices and teas which cost much less (Lavender tea is a great way to get a good night's sleep), then why should we spend so much on it?

[ghosthunter]

this reminded me of multo

Nah! ... Multo had not much to "profit" anymore since I would assume BF didn't need his services as much anymore.

This thread is much more like those fuel saving threads in the past, especially the one about Khaos Super Turbo Charger.